Reloading problem

[Robin]

Cartridge mouth ejecting from my side charging .224 Valkyrie are hitting what looks to be the opening edge of the slot the charging handle rides in. I don't see how that is possible but that is what it appears to be. I reload and the dent is considerable, even after annealing the necks and resizing the shell I can feel a bit of scarring. Can anything to be done to alter the path of the shell to stop this or minimize it? I guess that would be the best case. I'm concerned as to how this will affect accuracy.
Robin

 

[Vantrepes]

Changing the buffer spring, or weight of the buffer should allow you to adjust the ejection path to a degree. I'm not exactly sure where the slot you're talk about is in the upper, so I may be off base. Do you have a picture of the upper?

 

[togmaster]

Adjusting gas pressure would also work but explaining how to do that is above my pay grade.

 

[Robin]

The top image shows what happens to 90% of the shells.
Bottom photo shows the slot , within the upper left circle is the leading edge of the charging slot, note that it has slight deformation, the other circle shows brass smearing from impact.
Robin

 

[kev74]

Just a guess on my part, but an adjustable gas block might let you slow things down a bit for a more gentle ejection cycle.

 

[Robin]

Yeah I was thinking that too. I was going to go that route when I put it together and wondered how many jamb-up's I would have to clear before I got it right. Not a big deal, but with a fixed mag, it can be a semi big deal. Does anyone offer an adjustable buffer spring. or just a heavy duty spring?
Robin

 

[togmaster]

Yeah I was thinking that too. I was going to go that route when I put it together and wondered how many jamb-up's I would have to clear before I got it right. Not a big deal, but with a fixed mag, it can be a semi big deal. Does anyone offer an adjustable buffer spring. or just a heavy duty spring?
Robin

Home

AR 15 Buffer Springs come in carbine length and rifle length. They are what act on the buffer and BCG to allow your rifle to cycle ammunition reliably.

www.primaryarms.com

 

[JamieZ]

Yeah I was thinking that too. I was going to go that route when I put it together and wondered how many jamb-up's I would have to clear before I got it right. Not a big deal, but with a fixed mag, it can be a semi big deal. Does anyone offer an adjustable buffer spring. or just a heavy duty spring?
Robin

Robin,,,,
I would go with an adjustable gas block. Never seen an adjustable buffer spring or buffer and I wouldnt just try a lighter or heavier spring or buffer because you might end up choosing wrong.

Odin works makes a good one (their clickable),,,dont get the tunable one,,,,get the adjustable one. I have them on my 6.8 and 204.

Since you reload this shouldnt be a problem but if you are using different charged rounds in said gun you might have to adjust every time you shoot a different round. Ive never had to adjust mine except for when I initially set them up with my reloads,,,I shoot the same rounds all the time.

Gas Blocks

Choose from steel or aluminum, standard, tunable or adjustable gas blocks.

www.odinworks.com

 

[dubleuhb]

I think all that problem could've been avoided if the spent casings were coming out the right side....

 

[kev74]

I think all that problem could've been avoided if the spent casings were coming out the right side....

They'd be dented on the other side of the case mouth.

 

[Tisto]

I'm not convinced that your problem has anything to do with the speed of extraction, but a heavier buffer will slow down that action with no other modifications, and is completely reverseable should it not work. H-2 and H-3 buffers are readily available and ren about $ 20.

I have a H-2 I would sell you if you want, I bought it and tried it, but it didn't fix a problem I was having with a .204 build.

Unless you're shooting competitions, I don't think you would notice any difference in using the dented brass. Just size it and reload it. I've seen much worse brass used with no problems.

 

[Robin]

Just got done shooting about twenty rounds. Though I could see no brass residue on the charging handle itself, I wrapped it with electrical tape to see if it was getting some hits and sure enough it had perfect circles on it like a paper punch. I'm sure its over gassed but this is a configuration problem I'm not sure would be fixed with an adjustable gas block.
Tisto, I would like to try a stiffer spring if your offer still stands. Send me a PM and see what we can work out.
Robin

 

[camper4lyfe]

Are your loads hotter than standard? Maybe try a lighter load and see if that changes anything, just as a problem solving step.

 

[meketrefe]

You have to try these things:
A) stronger ejector spring and plunger and/or....
B) Round of the edges/tip of the plunger and make sure it rides very smoothly.
C) Also make sure you have an o-ring on the extractor and condition the extractor in and out to make sure it does not bind.
Also you might take a file and de-burr the points of the extractor so slightly. just to make sure they do not bite in the brass rim
like a couple of fangs that do not let go. A extractor bite is hard to spot in the brass. Again not extractor marks I am talking in
the outer edges of those marks where the bites show like the edges of the extractor might be too sharp.
D) Stick a bit of velcro (soft part) on the area where it hits and tumbles. Additionally you might find a piece of hard rubber or vinyl
that is better suited. Many tacticool receivers are designed like crap like some of those megas with the squared edges in the deflector so
those we had to round them to protect the re-loadable brass. A piece of velcro is very popular solution in match rifles. you will see
them everywhere in all sort of receivers not just tacticool ones.

Try the improvements and check.

E) with the dremel round off the edges where the brass is hitting. The equivalent opening should not be shorter than the largest
port available and give it plenty of room above and below.
Alternatively you might want to mold a piece of soft material in one corner but if you go back it should not hit more or hit harder.
In AKM type of receivers this is a must as the actual cover puts a huge dent in the middle of the case. So you have to drill a hole
and fabricate a piece of hard rubber that doesn't interfere with the carrier.
Once you put these the angle of ejection might change and there might not be need for the velcro tape or other in order to
protect the mouth.

Start with the simple and then move down the list. I would get rid of that receiver edge and bent. You know that is not supposed
to be there even the plunger is supposed to push the brass out right away. just fix it with the dremel even if it is just cosmetic
after you apply all other fixes.

Don't fiddle with the gas block at the moment.

 

[tony]

Any idea what is causing that peening on the leading edge of the slot? Is it contacting the charging handle?

 

[Robin]

Thanks Mel, I will give it a go, one step at a time.
Tony, I am not sure but suspect it is the shell casing. Iv'e been examining it till my eyes are blurry and can't imagine, or vision any other mechanical part that would have an impact in that area.
Robin

 

[Tisto]

Just got done shooting about twenty rounds. Though I could see no brass residue on the charging handle itself, I wrapped it with electrical tape to see if it was getting some hits and sure enough it had perfect circles on it like a paper punch. I'm sure its over gassed but this is a configuration problem I'm not sure would be fixed with an adjustable gas block.
Tisto, I would like to try a stiffer spring if your offer still stands. Send me a PM and see what we can work out.
Robin

Heavy buffer is in the mail. Anticipated delivery date is Thursday, Oct. 31. Good luck.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Is the concern the brass or the overgasing?

 

[tony]

I've been over-gassed and my wife was not happy...

 

[Robin]

Is the concern the brass or the overgasing?

The concern was the brass and what is causing the deformation. From my reading all these guns are over intentionally gassed.

 

[Calculon]

If buffer doesn’t work try an adjustable gas block. I have one from Superlative Arms that works really well. Like a turbo it bleeds off excess gas/pressure and they claim it helps system run cooler and cleaner.

.750" Adjustable Gas Block, Bleed Off - Clamp On - Melonite Finish

SKU # SABO-DI-750CM The Superlative Arms Patented “Bleed Off”, direct impingement, gas block for the AR-15/AR-10/LR-308 platform adjusts the gas flow by bleeding the gas out of the front of the block instead of restricting the flow like conventional adjustable blocks. Results: The pressure used...

suparms.com

 

[Robin]

The adjustable gas block is what I will do after hunting season for sure. For right now the spring sounds like a good stop gap and offers me a window for further analysis.
Robin

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

The concern was the brass and what is causing the deformation. From my reading all these guns are over intentionally gassed.

If that dent on the mouth is what you're concerned with then I wouldn't mess with ANYTHING. That dent is a non issue. A big nothing burger. Neck mandrel on your die takes it out easy peasy. If you start messing with the gas you'll be sorry when you start having problems.

 

[tony]

While not an AR Guru I would be more concerned about the peening of the receiver than the dented brass. I wonder if the charging handle could be rotating up/down a little and whacking that surface.

 

[camper4lyfe]

While not an AR Guru I would be more concerned about the peening of the receiver than the dented brass. I wonder if the charging handle could be rotating up/down a little and whacking that surface.

That's a good point. With the brass being softer than the aluminum receiver, there's no way the casings are causing that edge to roll over. I think there's 2 separate issues at hand here.

 

[Mosinitis]

About 80% of the time AR will dent brass, if not at the case mouth then lower, but dents are common. Resize it and shoot it, don't worry about it. When mouths are dented you need to be careful how you resize them. Ramming them up the regular die will round up case mouth, but it will create a small nick where the dent was. Simpler option is to use a large caliber bullet or something similar to take out most of the dent by hand and then size. More complicated option is to use a mandrel die to round up the necks and then size them. I just use large bullet. It doesn't have to be perfectly round, just enough to go smoothly through your sizing die.
Dents on the case body, simply ignore them. Half of the dent will be ironed out during sizing and the rest during next firing.

 

[kev74]

I use a set of needle nose pliers as an expander to partially open up badly dented case mouths. I stick the pliers in and open the handles to ease the neck open a bit so the expander doesn't catch on it.

 

[Robin]

I did look at the charging handle as a possible cause of that peening on the leading edge of the slot and there is no way possible that it is the cause. The brass may be softer than the aluminum, more likely a tie or slightly harder, but in either case, a softer metal at speed is fully capable of distorting a much harder metal. I have shot lead nose boat tails through 3/8", 316, stainless steel plate with a .250 savage many times.
I annealed the case necks before resizing, my Hornady dies have a slender football shaped neck sizer and it performed beautifully!
I have no problem fiddling with an adjustable gas block once I commit myself to it, kind of like fine tuning a hot rod.
The brass was brand new and I just got done with prepping, including trimming to length, and it just pissed me off!!!
If the peening is being caused by the cartridges, as I suspect, I think it will reach a point where it can go no further, but tuning the gun should stop it all together.
I appreciate the comments, all of them, It gives me stuff to chew on and revisit in my approach to what I think of as a problem, even though the gun functions within the realm of acceptability by all accounts that I can find.
Robin

 

[Mosinitis]

If the rifle functions and feeds without problems, don't mess with the gas block, buffer or buffer spring. There are so many modifications in your rifle from the original design, that these minor brass dents are a small price to pay for a functional rifle. These dents are very common with AR platform.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

If the rifle functions and feeds without problems, don't mess with the gas block, buffer or buffer spring. There are so many modifications in your rifle from the original design, that these minor brass dents are a small price to pay for a functional rifle. These dents are very common with AR platform.

It's brass denting is hit and miss from rifle to rifle but still common. My 300blk dents brass but the 556 doesn't. The BLK in fact makes dents on the case mouth exactly like the brass in this thread. But it does it extremely consistently and the casings land very close to each other. So at the least I know the rifle is performing consistently. It would be foolish to start messing with it at this point even if it's overgassing. I have too many guns to ever shoot any of them to the point of ruin.