Remember "Defund the ATF"?

[BerettaGuy]

Well upon the election of Trump and with the country on the verge of tremendous civil unrest propagated by the losing side, along come the ATF whitepaper with "recommendations". This is not the musing of the ATF second in command this was leaked.
Summary of LEAKED ATF White Paper & Analysis: NFA-Free Suppressors, Shouldered Braces, and Armor Piercing Ammo, Oh My! - The Firearm Blog

'This paper serves to provide the new Administration and the Bureau multiple options to consider and discuss regarding firearms regulations specific to ATF. These general thoughts provide potential ways to reduce or modify regulations, or suggest changes that promote commerce and defend the Second Amendment without significant negative impact on ATF’s mission to fight violent firearms crime and regulate the firearms industry.This white paper is intended to provide ideas and provoke conversation; it is not guidance or policy of any kind.'

1. Allow/facilitating gunshow-only dealers to apply for an Federal Firearms License
2. Reform the process of classifying ammunition as “armor piercing handgunammunition” to allow manufacturers to produce new armor-piercing rifleammunition while maintaining the exemption for SS109/M855, as well as an acknowledgement that many rounds not classified as “armor piercing” will still penetrate body armor.
3. Work with the State Department and Trump Administration to import surplus C&R US service arms for sale to the American public.
4. Allow greater flexibility to the ATF to grant FFL/SOTs permission to transfer post-86 machine guns to other FFL/SOTs working for DoD agents and in the film industry.
5. Remove the clause in the pistol stabilizing brace (PSB) ruling that lists shouldering the brace as an NFA violation.
6. Revise the “sporting purpose” wording to accommodate so-called “Modern Sporting Rifles” within that category.
7. Create a database of easily accessible and understood firearms regulations and rulings.
8. Consider reclassifying silencers as non-NFA items, revising the definition of “silencer”.
9. Allow FFLs to transfer firearms out-of-state (such as at gun shows in a neighboring state).
10. Discuss changing Destructive Device rulings to better differentiate between launchers and munitions (e.g. by allowing manufacturers to register whole lots of munitions as DDs, rather than the individual munitions).
11. Change the Demand Letter 2 (DL2) requirement to a number between 10 and 25 firearms(15 suggested), from the current 10.
12. Eliminate Demand Letter 3.
13. Review and possibly discard the current proposal to have FFLs retain records indefinitely, from the current regulation of 20 years.
14. Allow FFLs to run NICS checks on potential employees.
15. Push for a Presidentially-nominated, Senate-confirmed ATF Director.
16. Remove or amend old, obsolete regulations like the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban

 

[BerettaGuy]

Allow/facilitating gunshow-only dealers to apply for an Federal Firearms License
I say BS this is to address the false narrative of the "gun show loophole" propagated by the asshole Chuck Schumer.

Remove the clause in the pistol stabilizing brace (PSB) ruling that lists shouldering the brace as an NFA violation. Okay.
7) Revise the “sporting purpose” wording to accommodate so-called “Modern Sporting Rifles” YES!
9.) Allow FFLs to transfer firearms out-of-state (such as at gun shows in a neighboring state) confused on this one.

 

[Podmonkey]

Instead of ammending the stabilizing brace thing, just shitcan restrictions on SBRs and SBSs. Then shitcan the whole NFA, Hughes ammendment included. If then ATF is running this scared then we should press the advantage hard and now.

 

[eagleridge357]

Most make good sense. About time the ATF re-evaluates it's regs. Must admit I do not know about "demand letters"

 

[Robin]

17. Urge congress to remove ATF charter and disband the agency.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

17. Urge congress to remove ATF charter and disband the agency.
Robin

And if that starts getting any traction use the dissolution of their agency as blackmail to get what we want. This way we avoid a fight with the the Democrats.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

The only thing that I don't care much for is the keep the 4473 indefinitely. That sucks. It should be keep the 4473 for five years. And even that's too long.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

9.) Allow FFLs to transfer firearms out-of-state (such as at gun shows in a neighboring state) confused on this one.

Currently you can only sell firearms in the state that your license In. So if I have a New York license and I go to Pennsylvania gun show I cannot transfer guns in person at the show. By the way it's written, I have to go home box the firearm up and ship it to an FF L in the other state. I can't even give it to another FF L in the state at the show.

 

[Vantrepes]

Allow/facilitating gunshow-only dealers to apply for an Federal Firearms License
I say BS this is to address the false narrative of the "gun show loophole" propagated by the asshole Chuck Schumer.

I'm pretty sure this one has nothing to do with Chucky the Slime or making him happy in any way.
I am not an FFL, but I am pretty sure the ATF changed the requirements during Clinton to include a store front. That means the guy I bought my first rifle from, at his kitchen table, lost his FFL unless he opened a brick and mortar store front business. So, no store front, no FFL, which means the number of people selling guns dropped, and by extension, the cost of guns went up.
If they remove the store front requirement, guys who sell guns at gun shows can get an FFL, and buy/sell them without legal issues at gun shows. More dealers, lower prices, better for us

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I'm pretty sure this one has nothing to do with Chucky the Slime or making him happy in any way.
I am not an FFL, but I am pretty sure the ATF changed the requirements during Clinton to include a store front. That means the guy I bought my first rifle from, at his kitchen table, lost his FFL unless he opened a brick and mortar store front business. So, no store front, no FFL, which means the number of people selling guns dropped, and by extension, the cost of guns went up.
If they remove the store front requirement, guys who sell guns at gun shows can get an FFL, and buy/sell them without legal issues at gun shows. More dealers, lower prices, better for us

100% incorrect.

You could have a home-based FF L. The only requirement is that you are in business. You cannot have one just to enhance your collection with.

I think they want to initiate a change so people can sell a gun shows more easily. Right now the law says that if you are in the business of selling guns make money from selling guns or spend time and effort selling guns you are required to have an FFL.

The problem arises, if a legitimate person just buys and sells several guns in the year of his own personal collection, that's not really in business, you can appear that he is in business and argument could be made that he is in business, when in fact he is not.

 

[stuck in ny]

Allow/facilitating gunshow-only dealers to apply for an Federal Firearms License
I say BS this is to address the false narrative of the "gun show loophole" propagated by the asshole Chuck Schumer.

Remove the clause in the pistol stabilizing brace (PSB) ruling that lists shouldering the brace as an NFA violation. Okay.
7) Revise the “sporting purpose” wording to accommodate so-called “Modern Sporting Rifles” YES!
9.) Allow FFLs to transfer firearms out-of-state (such as at gun shows in a neighboring state) confused on this one.

The most realistically inportant thing would be bringing back true AP. The would actually make a real tyrant think twice about a dissarmament scheme.

 

[stuck in ny]

#16- did I read that right? New modern configured imports!

 

[eagleridge357]

I'm pretty sure this one has nothing to do with Chucky the Slime or making him happy in any way.
I am not an FFL, but I am pretty sure the ATF changed the requirements during Clinton to include a store front. That means the guy I bought my first rifle from, at his kitchen table, lost his FFL unless he opened a brick and mortar store front business. So, no store front, no FFL, which means the number of people selling guns dropped, and by extension, the cost of guns went up.
If they remove the store front requirement, guys who sell guns at gun shows can get an FFL, and buy/sell them without legal issues at gun shows. More dealers, lower prices, better for us

Store front is not a requirement. Also calling non-store FFLs "kitchen table FFLs" is a sign of not recognizing just what an FFL service is. Just because an FFL chooses to offer services which do not require display cases and large inventory does not mean such FFL is operating from a "kitchen table", implying that somehow this is a second class dealer. Most gunsmiths and firearm consultants do not operate a "brick and mortar" business, nor do many consignees, estate buyers, collectors. Displaying and selling from inventory is actually a small part of FFL businesses.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Store front is not a requirement. Also calling non-store FFLs "kitchen table FFLs" is a sign of not recognizing just what an FFL service is. Just because an FFL chooses to offer services which do not require display cases and large inventory does not mean such FFL is operating from a "kitchen table", implying that somehow this is a second class dealer. Most gunsmiths and firearm consultants do not operate a "brick and mortar" business, nor do many consignors, estate buyers, collectors. Displaying and selling from inventory is actually a small part of FFL businesses.

Too funny.

Before I opened my shop, I built and sold hundreds of completed uppers (and other parts) on/at my kitchen table. But no guns....

 

[eagleridge357]

Too funny.

Before I opened my shop, I built and sold hundreds of completed uppers (and other parts) on/at my kitchen table. But no guns....

Besides, if I worked from my kitchen table, my wife would throw me out. She can't stand food with that gunpowder smell. Smoked meat is bad enough.

 

[Calculon]

Hey @Bullet Guy and other ffls - how about 80% lowers? I know you don't need an ffl transfer to buy them but how about selling them? Let's say I get a killer deal on 80% lowers and want to sell them at a gun show - I don't need an FFL right?

Thanks.

 

[eagleridge357]

I'm venturing a guess here, NO you do not need a license to sell chunks of metal. However, NYSP and ATF may not see it my way.

 

[eagleridge357]

Besides which, Chuckie Shoomer is on the warpath to put chunks of metal on the NO GO list

 

[Bananabandit]

Id like to get an AOW without the wait. Down with ATF

 

[Podmonkey]

I should also be able to buy a hangun in any state I damn well please.

 

[spat]

Hey @Bullet Guy and other ffls - how about 80% lowers? I know you don't need an ffl transfer to buy them but how about selling them? Let's say I get a killer deal on 80% lowers and want to sell them at a gun show - I don't need an FFL right?

Thanks.

Legally an 80% and a 0% are the same thing.

80% Arms:0% Billet AR-15 Lower Receiver

Check out the 0% lower and tell me what you think NYS says about it.

 

[Podmonkey]

NYS, and Cuomo in particular, can gargle my balls.

 

[Calculon]

Legally an 80% and a 0% are the same thing.

80% Arms:0% Billet AR-15 Lower Receiver

Check out the 0% lower and tell me what you think NYS says about it.

I agree. Just checking cuz you never know...

Otherwise just call me

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Besides, if I worked from my kitchen table, my wife would throw me out. She can't stand food with that gunpowder smell. Smoked meat is bad enough.

I did not let my wife use the kitchen table....!

 

[Bvin66]

Store front is not a requirement. Also calling non-store FFLs "kitchen table FFLs" is a sign of not recognizing just what an FFL service is. Just because an FFL chooses to offer services which do not require display cases and large inventory does not mean such FFL is operating from a "kitchen table", implying that somehow this is a second class dealer. Most gunsmiths and firearm consultants do not operate a "brick and mortar" business, nor do many consignees, estate buyers, collectors. Displaying and selling from inventory is actually a small part of FFL businesses.

I call the guy I used a few years ago a Coffee Table FFL.
That's where he worked, in the living room, at the coffee table.
But that was not out of disrespect.

 

[Vantrepes]

Store front is not a requirement. Also calling non-store FFLs "kitchen table FFLs" is a sign of not recognizing just what an FFL service is.

I didn't call him anything. I stated a fact, we sat down at his kitchen table to do the paperwork. The rifles were laid out on his kitchen counter. I don't know all the services he provided, just that he sold me my rifle.
I stand corrected on the ATF requirement, maybe a NY or Monroe requirement?
Edit: I did some digging, and found my own confusion. It seems the Clinton change had to do with zoning laws, and FFLs.

Clinton drove FFL numbers down by the simple expedient of increasing the fee from $30 for three years to $200, requiring fingerprints and photographs, requiring that FFL holders meet local zoning requirements for retail outlets, and requiring proof that they had ‘secure storage’.

Clinton’s war on gun dealers drastically decreased the numbers of FFLs. From 1992 to 2009, the number of FFLs dropped by over 200,000. The use of zoning ordinances as a means of conflating local and federal power structures means that many urban areas are severely under-served. There is only one FFL in Washington, D.C., and he does not stock guns. He only transfers them. The last gun shop in San Francisco closed recently, due to over-regulation.

Source: The War on Gun Dealers

 

[eagleridge357]

I didn't call him anything. I stated a fact, we sat down at his kitchen table to do the paperwork. The rifles were laid out on his kitchen counter. I don't know all the services he provided, just that he sold me my rifle.
I stand corrected on the ATF requirement, maybe a NY or Monroe requirement?
Edit: I did some digging, and found my own confusion. It seems the Clinton change had to do with zoning laws, and FFLs.

Source: The War on Gun Dealers

OK, that's understood

 

[Phazer]

This is ALL BS!

Regulations are essentially laws created by unelected bureaucrats. Only real legislatively, constitutionally, passed laws should impact citizens' lives and lifestyle. Therefore, ALL BATFE regulations should be considered "advisory only" unless they are incorporated into congressional legislation and signed by the President.

Enough extra-constitutional legislating by the bureaucracy.

 

[ProgSpear]

Besides which, Chuckie Shoomer is on the warpath to put chunks of metal on the NO GO list

Chuck Fuck!

NYS, and Cuomo and Chuckie Shoomer in particular, can gargle my balls.

FIFY.

 

[Podmonkey]

Chuck Fuck!


FIFY.

Don't forget its "Schumeroids".