Rifle Research

[camper4lyfe]

Where’s a good place to research rifles? By research, I mean I just don’t know what’s out there, and I’d like to look through what’s available, made by whom, and average cost.

In the running world, there’s a website called dcrainmaker.com that reviews nearly every gps watch and accessory on the market, rates them, and also compares them. Is there anything like that in the firearm world?

 

[Jaywmustang]

I generally google what I am interested in and search the results. I focus more on forums than write-ups. Idk if the authors are paid or not. Forums you just need to weed out the bs posting.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

wutcha looking for ?

 

[camper4lyfe]

wutcha looking for ?

I’d like to eventually replace my slug gun with a rifle for deer. That’s my end game in this situation. Past that, I haven’t made any decisions.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

I’d like to eventually replace my slug gun with a rifle for deer. That’s my end game in this situation. Past that, I haven’t made any decisions.

when you fig it out,, i have plenty that will give a deer a bad day

 

[Jaywmustang]

Figure out your budget first

 

[camper4lyfe]

Figure out your budget first

I have an idea of budget, but budget doesn’t always line up, so I’m also curious as to what my budget might need to be (catch-22 of sorts)

 

[Jaywmustang]

If you know what you want, don’t compromise. It will just take you a little longer to save for.

 

[Robin]

Revolutionary War Guns | Facts, Information & History

These revolutionary war guns are the firearms most represented throughout the course of the revolutionary war. Find out more facts & information.

www.revolutionary-war.net

Start there and work your way forward. It's a long road, but filled with many wonders.
Robin

 

[Bustedknees]

Yearly published Shooters Bible.
3" thick paper back of current weapons.

 

[camper4lyfe]

If someone made the gun equivalent of DCRainmaker, they would be killing it. I’m not aware of anything that up to date, organized and detailed in the gun world.

DCRainmaker is pretty much a tech god when it comes to fitness equipment. He absolutely nailed that niche

 

[meketrefe]

There is no one single source that is a good sourced or unbiased by opinions, personal brand or rifle preferences, fashions, etc...
specially specialized websites, youtube, forums, social media, etc...
However I would say the study of firearm design principals, rifle designs that have been in the market for decades (including library books)
and then yes, some youtube videos or magazines but specially ask around in the local range to see if you can try different rifles and configurations
before you commit.
However for a deer rifle I would not sweat it too much knowing that you have platforms that are very reliable and have a huge aftermarket following.
In my opinion the best value right now are the following:
1- Savage 10/11 rifles like the predator (not XP type) or equivalent. They also allow for easy rebarreling and bolt head swaps so one can have a hunting rifle and then a summer season rifle all in one action. Lots of aftermarket as this is one of the 3 most popular actions in the world.
2- Remington 700, ideally before they started the financial problems so even a preowned rifle from a few years back will be good. Actions are
as strong as tanks and have the biggest aftermarket of any rifle.
3- Bergara. This is based on the reminton 700 and a huge value with all the materials, quality and feautures only found in rifles that cost 3 times as much.
4-The tikka seems to have come long ways and even it would not be my first choice they are good rifles. Same about the savage axis that is
the one who actually triggered a new method of making well priced super strong actions.
Both also have a very good aftermarket with the savage axis leading the way as it shares bolt heads and barrels wtih the legendary savage 10/11 actions.

 

[camper4lyfe]

There is no one single source that is a good sourced or unbiased by opinions, personal brand or rifle preferences, fashions, etc...
specially specialized websites, youtube, forums, social media, etc...
However I would say the study of firearm design principals, rifle designs that have been in the market for decades (including library books)
and then yes, some youtube videos or magazines but specially ask around in the local range to see if you can try different rifles and configurations
before you commit.
However for a deer rifle I would not sweat it too much knowing that you have platforms that are very reliable and have a huge aftermarket following.
In my opinion the best value right now are the following:
1- Savage 10/11 rifles like the predator (not XP type) or equivalent. They also allow for easy rebarreling and bolt head swaps so one can have a hunting rifle and then a summer season rifle all in one action. Lots of aftermarket as this is one of the 3 most popular actions in the world.
2- Remington 700, ideally before they started the financial problems so even a preowned rifle from a few years back will be good. Actions are
as strong as tanks and have the biggest aftermarket of any rifle.
3- Bergara. This is based on the reminton 700 and a huge value with all the materials, quality and feautures only found in rifles that cost 3 times as much.
4-The tikka seems to have come long ways and even it would not be my first choice they are good rifles. Same about the savage axis that is
the one who actually triggered a new method of making well priced super strong actions.
Both also have a very good aftermarket with the savage axis leading the way as it shares bolt heads and barrels wtih the legendary savage 10/11 actions.

I have a Rem 700 in .22-250 and was leaning toward that again, but then I discovered that Remington went belly up, so that sucks.

 

[meketrefe]

I have a Rem 700 in .22-250 and was leaning toward that again, but then I discovered that Remington went belly up, so that sucks.

The remington 700 action is not going anywhere even if what is left of remington does not manufacture one single one again
and even if they do that would not be my first choice so either find one made earlier by Remington or one of the aftermarket
ones based on the same blueprint but do not go for one of the most expensive ones.
This is why I believe perhaps you will love the Bergara becuase it is a Remington 700 the way the new 700 should have been
done by Remington themselves. It has independent block lock, ball bearing loaded extractor with a siligh angle that is even better than
the Badger Ordiance or Sako style extractor retrofits, Integrated recoil lug, Timey trigger, melonite and overal amazing machining.
In other words, a reminton 700 action in a ~1K rifle with features found in rifles that are x2-4 times that much money.
Even some parts are from Spain Bergara also has manufacturing and assembly here in Georgia and their technology
partners are Timey trigger and Shilen barrels among others.

Who knows where remington will end up or what quality one might get once they go through their transition.
Their quality issues are well known in the last few years. Even in their budget rifles I have seen their transition to somewhat
acceptable machining and quality to messed up threads, machine marks everywhere, trigger problems, ....

I would do the same, either find an older remington rifle or action from earlier years or otherwise just go for the
bergara if you want a top quality 700.

otherwise savage too is in the top value right now and you know their barrels are super consistent even for
the entry level gun same as with their axis. It doesn't have the same aftermarket as teh 700 but not too far behind.

A lot of magazines and writers fail to mention this and what it takes to make consistent barrels for budget rifles
that savage and bergara have this down to a science. Savage was the one who has influenced how ALL budget
rifles are made today to give features and quality for a price the working man can pay and they have 20 years
lead on others. Same as glock, who introduced a design, process and quality that has influenced how ALL pistols are
made by everyone else. This is not a personal biased opinion, simply history.

..sad Remington Management fvcked everything up and missed the train.

I guess typical NY State old dinosaur obsolete type of management like they did with Xerox, Kodak, Delco, etc...

 

[meketrefe]

BTW another one I forgot is the winchester M70 (FN owned) with the controlled feed but they are more money and otherwise
would not go for this over a savage on a Push feed. If you can try a CF action first and you will see what I mean.
In any case amazing actions very strong by design.

I would personally avoid the mossberg and Howa just because of the weaker actions. It doens't mean they are bad but they
are not cheaper neither.

 

[stuckhere]

BTW another one I forgot is the winchester M70 (FN owned) with the controlled feed but they are more money and otherwise
would not go for this over a savage on a Push feed. If you can try a CF action first and you will see what I mean.
In any case amazing actions very strong by design.

I would personally avoid the mossberg and Howa just because of the weaker actions. It doens't mean they are bad but they
are not cheaper neither.

I"d have to disagree with the Howa being weak in any significant way. But the rest of your suggestions are spot on. I would put the Bergara above all the others as you mentioned as far as value for the dollar.

 

[meketrefe]

I"d have to disagree with the Howa being weak in any significant way. But the rest of your suggestions are spot on. I would put the Bergara above all the others as you mentioned as far as value for the dollar.

Thanks. I would expect some people might disagree and I might not be all up to date in all latest actions or variants.
We had lots of threads and discussions on these actions going back 20 years in this forum, nyf and other forums before that.
In theory Howas should be good as they share lots of similarities with the M70 PF design so this is why it was
surprising to see so many action failures specially when used in hot long range cartriges.
Guy (who used to post here a lot) posted pictures of a kaboon from a hot 308 long range load.
We are not talking about kabooms from obvious reloading or other mistakes but totally unexpected lug
and breach failures.
In the sniperhide, long range hunting and other forums one might be able to find the pictures and threads
discussing those failures.
It is estrange since Japanese steel and general manufacturing is usually of very high quality and maybe something
has been done since then to remediate those issues related to materials or heat treating problems but
it didn't make it pretty reassuring for folks following those situations.
I personally think they could do great rifles and if nothing else for milder cartridges but at the same time
one might have those situations and pictures appearing in the back of one's mind and it is like they
are the only option for a modern rifle.
Personally I have not worked with them for this and I would be open to give them a try but then perhaps
others can explain if there have been any developments or improvements or other things that might
provide some sort of distinctive advantage over other actions.
By the same token I would have no problem in tomorrow using a compact action howa or CZ or a modern ruger to make
a compact 223, 6x45, 6tcu or 6mm BR... all pretty mild in terms of thrust.

Dave another member who used to post here I saw him one day at the range complaining why the patriot's accuracy didn't shoot
and I told him the same thing I tell everyone, a feather weight hunter to shoot 308 180gr loads is not a very smart decission
just becuase the amount of torque that is involved in some cartriges vs. other and those things might be taken into account including
a bit of extra weight for his specific use at the time.

Again there are countless threads talking about actions and why some are better than others depending on
what one wants to do.

Mossberg Patriot

I have a few gun bucks sitting around and am considering a Mossberg Patriot in either .30-06 or .308. I like the price point and the fact that it has a magazine. I do not have a .308 rifle, but I reload .30-06 and love the round so I'm hesitant to get into another caliber "just because". Is...

nygunforum.com

Let me see if I find the Howa discussions. Not always easy to find stuff.

 

[stuckhere]

In 20 years or so of being pretty active in the local scene, I haven’t heard any issue with factory Howa rifles or barreled actions. I wonder is any of those issues you mentioned had anything to do with the disassembly and rebarrelling operation of a Howa 1500/Vanguard? I’ve heard rumblings of them being difficult to remove barrels from, and being damaged in the process. That and cutting an off thread size/pitch on the replacement barrel could be factors in those failures.

Totally agree on some of these new action designs being weaker in the name of economy. I do not like the mossberg at all. I’m actually surprised at how bad of a job they did developing their bolt action. Seems as though the have been stepping up their game over the last decade or so.

 

[Vapor]

In 20 years or so of being pretty active in the local scene, I haven’t heard any issue with factory Howa rifles or barreled actions. I wonder is any of those issues you mentioned had anything to do with the disassembly and rebarrelling operation of a Howa 1500/Vanguard? I’ve heard rumblings of them being difficult to remove barrels from, and being damaged in the process. That and cutting an off thread size/pitch on the replacement barrel could be factors in those failures.

Totally agree on some of these new action designs being weaker in the name of economy. I do not like the mossberg at all. I’m actually surprised at how bad of a job they did developing their bolt action. Seems as though the have been stepping up their game over the last decade or so.

I have one in .308 and .243. No problems.

They are metric and harder to work on.

 

[Bustedknees]

BTW another one I forgot is the winchester M70 (FN owned) with the controlled feed but they are more money and otherwise
would not go for this over a savage on a Push feed. If you can try a CF action first and you will see what I mean.
In any case amazing actions very strong by design.

I would personally avoid the mossberg and Howa just because of the weaker actions. It doens't mean they are bad but they
are not cheaper neither.

I'll add that in the fit and finish department my foreign made Winchester has beautiful walnut and a blueing job that puts my Remington made rifles to shame.

 

[MilesTeg]

Another vote for begara. Actually tossed around this year going with one of thier high end models. Might pull the trigger if they make one in 7mm-08. Although after seeing my brother take a few deer with his 300 prc I might be persuaded. (I know its WAY overkill for whitetail)

 

[holdover]

Model 70 feather weight, choice of calibers, $800

 

[Jaywmustang]

Another vote for begara. Actually tossed around this year going with one of thier high end models. Might pull the trigger if they make one in 7mm-08. Although after seeing my brother take a few deer with his 300 prc I might be persuaded. (I know its WAY overkill for whitetail)

Nothing is overkill!!

 

[meketrefe]

Nothing is overkill!!

I agree but also consider that magnums might ruin a lot of meat in quartering shots.
Some can blow a see through hole in a small white tail deer.
If one has to use a magnum it might be wise to use a reduced load and a monolitic light-for-caliber bullet.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I agree but also consider that magnums might ruin a lot of meat in quartering shots.
Some can blow a see through hole in a small white tail deer.
If one has to use a magnum it might be wise to use a reduced load and a monolitic light-for-caliber bullet.

I shot a buck opening day with a 308win 165gr Sierra game kings at 40ish yards and I had a silver dollar exit hole. My buddy shot his buck (35-40 yards)and doe (70-80 yards)with his 300 win mag, 180 core lokt and the exit was no where the size of mine. Wish I remembered to take a pic of my exit wound, I was quite impressed with those game kings. Bullet selection is key if you don’t want meat loss

 

[meketrefe]

I shot a buck opening day with a 308win 165gr Sierra game kings at 40ish yards and I had a silver dollar exit hole. My buddy shot his buck (35-40 yards)and doe (70-80 yards)with his 300 win mag, 180 core lokt and the exit was no where the size of mine. Wish I remembered to take a pic of my exit wound, I was quite impressed with those game kings. Bullet selection is key if you don’t want meat loss

Agree but when hitting a certain bone with a magnum the bone itself can become a fragmentation projectile due to the massive energy release so even a bonded or monolithic bullet becomes a varmint grenade.
It is less likely but just to show the larger the magnum the larger the risk of chopping a white tail in two halves.