Right to Work in NY

[GOPerfect]

At the expense of others? So you are against the American worker?

So, do you agree with forcing companies to except Unions into their ranks? Fast food workers should be part of a union and receive $15-17 per hour. Should ALL workers in the US and all Companies be forced to be part of a Union Shop?

Why stop at just forcing an employee to pay union dues of a Union is offered; why not just force each and every person/business to be part of the club?

 

[Marine Cpl]

So, do you agree with forcing companies to except Unions into their ranks? Fast food workers should be part of a union and receive $15-17 per hour. Should ALL workers in the US and all Companies be forced to be part of a Union Shop?

Why stop at just forcing an employee to pay union dues of a Union is offered; why not just force each and every person/business to be part of the club?

I really do think that every worker should be protected from their employer. It keeps them honest. So yes.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Look at Walmart for example. They hire nothing but part timers so that they don't have to pay them medical insurance. If someone calls out, they'd rather put a manager on the register or close it out entirely so as to not pay someone for overtime.

Days off and hours are deliberately rotated so as not to keep steady employees and pay them raises.

Let's make America Great Again and protect the American worker....

 

[NirvanaFan]

I hate non-right to work states. Here's a story...
I used to work for a business that designed and set up trade shows around the world. In particular, I set up the electronics (TVs, computers, projectors, sound systems, etc). Most of the trade shows were US based. I traveled to NYC, Atlanta, Miami, DC, Vegas, Chicago, Virginia Beach, and a ton of other places. I HATED working in NYC, Chicago, and other places where I didn't have the right to work and we were forced to go through unionized laborers. Why? The people we were forced to use at outrageously high prices were complete idiots.

We had to have someone run extension cords. Literally, we would have to hire someone to roll out an extension cord and tape it to the floor. One time, I was plugging the power into a TV (that the electrician we hired forgot to do), and I got bitched at by the union person that was walking by.

We had to hire someone to roll out and put ends on Ethernet cables. I always had to check every single one because the electricians fucked them up 25% of the time.

One time we were setting up a bunch of seamless TVs (like you'd see in a bar). It was 2 TVs high by 8 TVs long. Pretty simple job, but we always had to fight with the electricians. These TVs were about 4 grad a piece, and they had no bezel on them. The glass of the plasma TV was right against the edge. If you bumped 2 of them together, and it didn't have to be hard, both would break, and you'd be down 8 grand. We had to fight with every electrician to let them have us do it. They all caved in eventually, but what did they do? They wouldn't continue on and do other work. They'd sit on their ass and watch us do it.

While setting up those TVs, I'd explain to the electrician how to wire them up. "Daisy chain the TVs, starting with this one. The VGA out goes from this TV, to the VGA in of this one, the out of that one, goes to the in on that one. Just keep going down the line and work your way back on the bottom row." At least 75% of the time, they'd screw it up. I ended up coming in at 6am, which of course, was way earlier than all of them were in. I'd wake my ass up at 5:30 to redo the job after a night of drinking because some dipshit couldn't do the job right.

 

[GOPerfect]

Okay, so it is the Governments responsibility to keep me safe and to protect me with my job?

Funny, I do not want them to protect me at all.

 

[GOPerfect]

Look at Walmart for example. They hire nothing but part timers so that they don't have to pay them medical insurance. If someone calls out, they'd rather put a manager on the register or close it out entirely so as to not pay someone for overtime.

Days off and hours are deliberately rotated so as not to keep steady employees and pay them raises.

Let's make America Great Again and protect the American worker....

Walmart is in business for profits. That is it. If hiring nothing but Part Timers is the way to increase those profits, good for them. No one is forcing these workers to work for Walmart. Get some skills and find a better job.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I hate non-right to work states. Here's a story...
I used to work for a business that designed and set up trade shows around the world. In particular, I set up the electronics (TVs, computers, projectors, sound systems, etc). Most of the trade shows were US based. I traveled to NYC, Atlanta, Miami, DC, Vegas, Chicago, Virginia Beach, and a ton of other places. I HATED working in NYC, Chicago, and other places where I didn't have the right to work and we were forced to go through unionized laborers. Why? The people we were forced to use at outrageously high prices were complete idiots.

We had to have someone run extension cords. Literally, we would have to hire someone to roll out an extension cord and tape it to the floor. One time, I was plugging the power into a TV (that the electrician we hired forgot to do), and I got bitched at by the union person that was walking by.

We had to hire someone to roll out and put ends on Ethernet cables. I always had to check every single one because the electricians fucked them up 25% of the time.

One time we were setting up a bunch of seamless TVs (like you'd see in a bar). It was 2 TVs high by 8 TVs long. Pretty simple job, but we always had to fight with the electricians. These TVs were about 4 grad a piece, and they had no bezel on them. The glass of the plasma TV was right against the edge. If you bumped 2 of them together, and it didn't have to be hard, both would break, and you'd be down 8 grand. We had to fight with every electrician to let them have us do it. They all caved in eventually, but what did they do? They wouldn't continue on and do other work. They'd sit on their ass and watch us do it.

While setting up those TVs, I'd explain to the electrician how to wire them up. "Daisy chain the TVs, starting with this one. The VGA out goes from this TV, to the VGA in of this one, the out of that one, goes to the in on that one. Just keep going down the line and work your way back on the bottom row." At least 75% of the time, they'd screw it up. I ended up coming in at 6am, which of course, was way earlier than all of them were in. I'd wake my ass up at 5:30 to redo the job after a night of drinking because some dipshit couldn't do the job right.

There are dipshits and people who know the job in both Union and Non-Union positions of similar job description.

You aren't going to miraculously lose your knowledge by taking a union job.

 

[GOPerfect]

There are dipshits and people who know the job in both Union and Non-Union positions of similar job description.

You aren't going to miraculously lose your knowledge by taking a union job.

No, but you do get lazy!

 

[Marine Cpl]

No, but you do get lazy!

That I agree with.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Walmart is in business for profits. That is it. If hiring nothing but Part Timers is the way to increase those profits, good for them. No one is forcing these workers to work for Walmart. Get some skills and find a better job.

But what if the better job is no different? Look at China.

 

[NirvanaFan]

There are dipshits and people who know the job in both Union and Non-Union positions of similar job description.

You aren't going to miraculously lose your knowledge by taking a union job.

I wouldn't argue that. You know what though? Those non-union people that I worked with in Atlanta actually learned. They seemed to strive to do a better job than the unioned workers in NYC. After a couple times of working directly with and showing a guy in Atlanta exactly what I wanted, he learned. I ended up trusting him to hook up the TVs correctly. After showing someone in NYC twice, I still didn't trust them to do it.

Our booths cost significantly less to set up in right to work states. It's a bit ridiculous that I have to hire an electrician, at more than $50 to plug in a single extension cord. You can't tell me that that union doesn't have the convention hall by the balls.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I wouldn't argue that. You know what though? Those non-union people that I worked with in Atlanta actually learned. They seemed to strive to do a better job than the unioned workers in NYC. After a couple times of working directly with and showing a guy in Atlanta exactly what I wanted, he learned. I ended up trusting him to hook up the TVs correctly. After showing someone in NYC twice, I still didn't trust them to do it.

Our booths cost significantly less to set up in right to work states. It's a bit ridiculous that I have to hire an electrician, at more than $50 to plug in a single extension cord. You can't tell me that that union doesn't have the convention hall by the balls.

You also have to look at where the workers are coming from. I've worked on non-union jobs in NYC and have seen the same thing.

Their values are different.

Case in point. If you go to a McDonald's or Home Depot in NYC and one in Orange County, you'll get better service and knowledgeable people in the one in Orange County.

 

[Marine Cpl]

There are extremes in both sides. Where I work, people who push a broom make 30 bucks an hour.

Then there are other places where a cop makes 20 grand a year.

 

[NirvanaFan]

You also have to look at where the workers are coming from. I've worked on non-union jobs in NYC and have seen the same thing.

Their values are different.

That's part of my point. The union workers that I worked with milked the system. They are the reason that the cost of an electrician is so high. I just looked, and it's higher than I though. Regular labor time (~7am-3pm weekdays) for things like hooking up TVs, is $66.75 per half hour. The off hour rate (weekends, holidays, and 3pm-7am) rate is $87.50 per half hour. In Atlanta, the rate is $75 an hour, including weekends and holidays. Unions drive up the price of goods.

Unions are the main reason why GM needed the massive government bailout. UAW had GM by the balls and cost the taxpayers over $20 billion.

 

[944turbo]

Let's make America Great Again and protect the American worker....

...by making everything cost more.

Someone went to the Bernie Sanders school of economics.

 

[Marine Cpl]

...by making everything cost more.

Someone went to the Bernie Sanders school of economics.

Socialism has never and will never protect the worker so.... No.

 

[GOPerfect]

But what if the better job is no different? Look at China.

Not even close to a comparision.

But hey, you want more and more Government intrusion? Go for it.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Will's stance on unions is as gross as his stance on the .45 acp.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Does a union made frying pan stop a bullet better than a non-union made one? That's the real question.

All kidding aside it is funny to see how many so called conservatives turn into insane progressives when their union is discussed. It's usually cops and firemen.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Does a union made frying pan stop a bullet better than a non-union made one? That's the real question.

All kidding aside it is funny to see how many so called conservatives turn into insane progressives when their union is discussed. It's usually cops and firemen.

What does conservatism have to do with unions? Would getting a lawyer to represent you mean you no longer are a real conservative?

 

[ProgSpear]

And I'm willing to bet even if you currently aren't the member of one, you've gained some benefit from one once in your life.

Yeah. The biggest benefit I realized from unions was when I was 19, young, dumb, and you know... full of piss and vinegar. I was a floater in a fab shop that normally had 2 man teams modding trucks. Bored out of my skull, I asked the foreman for some work I could do on my own, and figured out how to mod a truck by myself in two days while a normal 2 man team took 1-1/2 days. The benefit I got was the shop steward informing me what it bitch it is to replace 4 tires if I persisted in making the serious union guys "look bad". Fuck unions.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yeah. The biggest benefit I realized from unions was when I was 19, young, dumb, and you know... full of piss and vinegar. I was a floater in a fab shop that normally had 2 man teams modding trucks. Bored out of my skull, I asked the foreman for some work I could do on my own, and figured out how to mod a truck by myself in two days while a normal 2 man team took 1-1/2 days. The benefit I got was the shop steward informing me what it bitch it is to replace 4 tires if I persisted in making the serious union guys "look bad". Fuck unions.

Yea, that's never been said in a non-union workplace ever.

 

[GOPerfect]

I worked for the United States Army for nearly 25 years, not once did I think we needed a Union.

I worked for a Plumbing/Heating Wholesale company for 17 years. Again, not once did I need a Union to protect me. I made a fair wage, had pretty good medical, vacation days and sick time. Some of my co-workers talked about going Union, they were told if the Company became union, the doors would close and we would all be out of a job. I got to a point where I wanted better; better pay and medical. I looked for employment elsewhere that would suit my needs.

I do not want the Government taking care of me. I am willing to pay for services that they provide, I pay taxes and the government in return builds roads and schools. Stuff like that is all the "protection" from the .gov that I need. I do not need all their BS rules at the workplace and I do not need/want them to force me to be a member of a Private organization!

 

[Marine Cpl]

@GOPerfect, then why is it that a family on an E6 and below salary qualify for food stamps?

And do you think the fair wage and benefits you got had no correlation to the union jobs of the same title nearby?

 

[GOPerfect]

@GOPerfect, then why is it that a family on an E6 and below salary qualify for food stamps?

Because the standards are too low!

 

[GOPerfect]

An E-6 SSG with 10 years Basic Pay is $3480.30

If he lives on post, all bills are paid. If not living on post, he will get BAH, somewhere in the area of $2000. Not to mention, free medical and discounted shopping on post. Oh, don't forget, BAS as well to help feed the family, upwards of $300 per month. I wish I was getting that every month!

 

[Jmac00]

No, but you do get lazy!

I have a couple examples of how bad the unions are, both from the building trades. I was group leader of building maintenance for a screw machine shop, they built a new building that was 200' x 90' x 18'(tall)

first: Masons. The union masons ~~~24 (TWENTY FOUR) of them laid three courses 60' long in 8 hours. The boss threw the union off the job because they were literally sitting around doing nothing. The boss hired two Italian guys with one helper. they laid 6 courses 90' (width of the building) in 6 hours? The union guy were so mad I thought a fight was going to break out. My money was going to be on the two Italian guys, their helper was literally one of the biggest guys I have ever seen. he could carry four 16 x 8 blocks (two in each hand) like beer glasses. these blocks are 28 pounds EACH.

same building 45 days later.

Second: Plumbers/pipe fitters. The union sent two pipe fitters to run a 4" black steel pipe 180' down the middle of the building, four feet from the steel decked roof. The owner walked up to me and asked what was going on with the building because it was taking these two guy four days to run 30' of black steel pipe with victaulic fitting. I said (half jokingly) "this is stupid, I bet you double overtime I could do this entire job with three guys in 5 hours." The boss looked right at me and said "you're on. Be here Saturday Morning with your crew and have at it" I said "you know these two idiots are going to blow a gasket, you're probably going to get sued" The boss laughed and said "let me worry about that, the bet is, 5 hours at double time or you don't get paid" I said, "hey, Im game, let me make sure the boys are on board" I called the boss 20 minutes later and said you're on.

We ran 150' of pipe in four hours and 42 minutes. the boss sat there with a freaking stop watch. he was pretty happy and gave my crew Monday off with pay. I think he did that to save us from the wrath of the pipe fitters. from what I heard they were livid


If union people did there job and not screw around so much, they probably would have been able to finish. But these guy treat these jobs like working welfare. they show up, smoke cigarettes and screw around all day and expect to get top wages. they only thing they are really good at is pissing management off.

 

[Rustycoins]

I get what you are saying. I'm not ignoring your point about mandation. But I'm also a realist.

Without unions, the employer would screw the worker. That is why they were created in the first place.

This statement alone is just pathetic. This is literally the spitting image of the argument "because one person shot someone with a gun, we should regulate all guns!" I could literally fill in the blank your comments on this thread and you'd be a mirror image of an oppressed liberal on any topic chosen. All businesses are nazis! Punch employers in the face!

You clearly have no clue what the employer deals with, nor are you remotely close to being a realist in your later comments on raise justification. Normal businesses do not set their own prices, the free market and competition does. We don't all live in magical rainbow unicorn lala land where we can justify a 10% price increase on every product every year.

Maybe if you're so unhappy with how awfully employers treat employees you should not take their job. Start your own business and put your own house and money on the line. I don't ever see employees step up to the plate for that challenge, just demand more for the same output. You have been brainwashed into thinking every single person on the planet who owns a business walks away with millions of dollars and his poor homeless employees fight for dumpster scraps.

In the free market you have choices for improvement; produce more to justify a higher wage, produce better then your competition to justify a higher wage, start your own business to compete for the higher wage, or band together with a group of people who hold no financial risk over the business and demand someone else's wealth be given to you for nothing while they hold all of the risk. Then if they don't give you something for nothing, you can all try to destroy their life.

Unions are run by scumbags who harass, assault, and extort in the name of wealth redistribution. It does not get anymore socialist than Unions.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This statement alone is just pathetic. This is literally the spitting image of the argument "because one person shot someone with a gun, we should regulate all guns!" I could literally fill in the blank your comments on this thread and you'd be a mirror image of an oppressed liberal on any topic chosen. All businesses are nazis! Punch employers in the face!

You clearly have no clue what the employer deals with, nor are you remotely close to being a realist in your later comments on raise justification. Normal businesses do not set their own prices, the free market and competition does. We don't all live in magical rainbow unicorn lala land where we can justify a 10% price increase on every product every year.

Maybe if you're so unhappy with how awfully employers treat employees you should not take their job. Start your own business and put your own house and money on the line. I don't ever see employees step up to the plate for that challenge, just demand more for the same output. You have been brainwashed into thinking every single person on the planet who owns a business walks away with millions of dollars and his poor homeless employees fight for dumpster scraps.

In the free market you have choices for improvement; produce more to justify a higher wage, produce better then your competition to justify a higher wage, start your own business to compete for the higher wage, or band together with a group of people who hold no financial risk over the business and demand someone else's wealth be given to you for nothing while they hold all of the risk. Then if they don't give you something for nothing, you can all try to destroy their life.

Unions are run by scumbags who harass, assault, and extort in the name of wealth redistribution. It does not get anymore socialist than Unions.

Don't go off the deep end. I'm not saying all employers are the enemy. You are being ridiculous. Your post screams of bias. All unions are run by scumbags. Please.

There are good employers and there are bad employers. There are also employers who care absolutely nothing about the worker that they'll move their plant to China for slave labor.

 

[Marine Cpl]

An E-6 SSG with 10 years Basic Pay is $3480.30

If he lives on post, all bills are paid. If not living on post, he will get BAH, somewhere in the area of $2000. Not to mention, free medical and discounted shopping on post. Oh, don't forget, BAS as well to help feed the family, upwards of $300 per month. I wish I was getting that every month!

Okay. E5 or E4 and below. Whatever the case, that shouldn't happen.

Honest question. Do you think the fair wage and benefits you got in your non union plumbing job had no correlation to the union job of the same title nearby?