Rochester area worst power outage in over a decade

Saltwater60 · Mar 10, 2017

I have a nice generator. I will add a water power d back up sump pump though soon. I have thought about it for years, but just never did it. I also really need to change the oil in my generator. I will do both my generator and my snow blower coming up here soon. I need to make a plug for my generator so that I can just plug it into my 30 amp twist lock plug in my garage to back feed to my house. Mine will run everything I need and help Out some nieghbors. It's also nice that I have a spare furnace in my garage and a fire place in my living room.

Jmac00 · Mar 10, 2017

JamieZ said:
Lost power from 1pm Wednesday to 2pm today in Churchville. Borrowed the neighbors generator to keep my reef tank alive. I ordered a generator on amazon because I dont care how many times this will happen,,,I should of had one with the amount of money I have in the tank. Plan on wiring up my furnace tomorrow so I can just plug right into it with an extension cord from the generator, next time. Not bothering to spend money on a transfer switch for my box.

My house came within inches of being crushed by neighbors tree. House right next to me got their huge garage crushed. House down the street from me got crushed by 2 huge maples that ripped right out of the ground.

can I suggest you set up your generator so you can back feed your panel box? I installed a 240v 40 amp twist lock plug on the outside of my house. I tied the other end to a 40amp breaker in my panel box. when the power goes out, turn off the main breaker and all the other breakers. hook up the generator turn on the 40 amp and the breakers to your tank....furnace and fridges, and freezers and you should be good to go. get a generator that is at least 6500 watt or more

or

Go buy a backup generator with a transfer switch

Bulldog51 · Mar 10, 2017

I was hoping to have power this weekend but my wife heard it may be Monday before we are back online. I am lucky a family member had a generator I could use.

Jmac00 · Mar 10, 2017

IF my wife's cousin gets her power on tomorrow, I'll post here. If anyone in the rochester, monroe county area needs power i can come over and hook you up. even if it's just for a few hours, at least I can get you some heat

kev74 · Mar 10, 2017

Carlos Hathcock said:
Is this the white part of Elma?

Off white.

vanderblack · Mar 10, 2017

We lost power a few years back for 4 days. On the 2nd day I built a cable to go from my generator 240v to the outlet for my dryer. I shutoff the main and most of the breakers, fired up the generator and turned on essential breakers on the panel. A 5500 watt generator powered everything I needed. Water pump, fridge, freezer, cable modem, tv, lights and stove. I was careful to not run everything at once, for example, unplugged the fridge and didn't run the water while using the stove. It gives you the ability to power anything in the house instead of the few circuits a transfer switch gives you. You have to be very careful to get the wiring right and MAKE SURE THE MAIN IS OFF before you power up the generator. I put in a request with Central Hudson to call when the poer was restored so we would know. It worked out really well. I have a propane fireplace that keeps the house at 65 on 20 degree nights. It can be run with or without a fan.

Acer-m14 · Mar 11, 2017

I wish you all and your neighbors and friends the best dealing with this ... BUT!! .. if you remember the ice storm we all had .. when was it oh way back then
in 98 or so .. be prepared ... dang that was a boy scout motto .. LOL ... i was like 20 ish at the time .. was in the local fire dept .. soon as the roads were drive-able off to the store in hope there open .. grabbed some light bulbs the normal house lamp type but in 12V .. extension cord .. filled up the old 72 duster
.. got back to moms n dads ,, open the house window and tossed in the cord .. change the living room lamps to these dad .. , cut off the end of the cord
and hooked it the car battery .. left the car idling in the drive for the night till was bed time .. used 1/2 tank of gas for the week we were out of power... we
cooked on the wood stove or colman camp stove .. mom and dads friends would stop in .. oh you have power ... yep 1972 duster 318 mopar generator .. you didnt hear it running .. lol ..

this kind of stuff i pass down to my friends ... if you didn't learn from the ice storm like my cousin and have to move cuz you have no clue because you lived
in a safe space .. i got one word ... FREEZE ... maybe you will learn some thing .. i know hard for a snowflake these days ..

Saltwater60 · Mar 11, 2017

Blimey said:
I really know little of electricity. Is that safe? So in layman's terms since 240 comes from the road into your main breaker, you just turned your main breaker off and then with the generator's 240 output sent it through your dryer's 240 to mimic the 240 that normally comes from the street.

Would a cheap transfer switch do the same thing? I've seen some simple ones that seem to do basically the same thing; when the switch is on the main breaker is off, then you just turn on whichever breakers you need, as power is fed through the transfer.

Got my power back last night. Was out just over two days. We got it back in time for very low temps. I won't do this again. Going to make sure the next outage I can cover a little better. The inverters saved my butt but I want something a bit better.

It's safe if you turn of the main breaker if not you can backfeed into the grid and shock a pole man. Also if you don't turn off the main when the power comes back on it would not be good. I also would not tell tons of people since I think it's illegal.

vanderblack · Mar 11, 2017

It is safe if you understand the principal and know what you are doing. The big advantage is that you can power anything in your house. Inexpensive transfer switches only have 6 to 8 zones so you need to choose what is important to you to power. Transfer switches that have 10 or more zones start getting up there in price. In my situation, we do not lose power often and I cant justify the cost of the switch. I picked up my generator from a family member cheap because they were upgrading.

MothMan · Mar 11, 2017

Blimey said:
I really know little of electricity. Is that safe? So in layman's terms since 240 comes from the road into your main breaker, you just turned your main breaker off and then with the generator's 240 output sent it through your dryer's 240 to mimic the 240 that normally comes from the street.

@Blimey This is how my generator circuit is set up. I don't use the dryer outlet though, I installed a dedicated 10 gauge, 3 wire circuit from a 20A twist lock outlet in the garage to a 20A double pole breaker in my distribution panel.

When needed I pull the generator, which has a 20A max output, chain it to the back of my truck, which is outdoors of course and then connect the generator and house with a 25' 10 gauge stranded 3 wire whip with twist lock connectors.

Then at the panel I turn off the main house breaker and individual breakers. Go outside start the generator then back at the panel I energize the circuits needed, furnace, lights...

Outside at the electrical meter I place a lock out tag out as a courtesy to the linemen lettting them know a generator is in use.

As for the legality of it I have never heard that what I did violated anything. Now if you backfeed a feeder and someone is injured all bets are off. Even a professionally installed transfer switch can malfunction my set up has fewer moving parts to fail.

I've had this in place since the Labor Day storm blew through the Cuse. I was without power for 7 days.

Dantheman · Mar 11, 2017

If you want to safely back feed get an interlock kit. We converted cooking, clothes drying and water heating to propane over 20 years ago.
That left us with an unused 30 amp dryer outlet.

Our electrician replaced that outlet and changed the breaker.

Manual Transfer Switch Kits | Generator Interlock Kit

Dan

Jmac00 · Mar 11, 2017

vanderblack said:
We lost power a few years back for 4 days. On the 2nd day I built a cable to go from my generator 240v to the outlet for my dryer. I shutoff the main and most of the breakers, fired up the generator and turned on essential breakers on the panel. A 5500 watt generator powered everything I needed. Water pump, fridge, freezer, cable modem, tv, lights and stove. I was careful to not run everything at once, for example, unplugged the fridge and didn't run the water while using the stove. It gives you the ability to power anything in the house instead of the few circuits a transfer switch gives you. You have to be very careful to get the wiring right and MAKE SURE THE MAIN IS OFF before you power up the generator. I put in a request with Central Hudson to call when the poer was restored so we would know. It worked out really well. I have a propane fireplace that keeps the house at 65 on 20 degree nights. It can be run with or without a fan.

this is essentially what I was suggesting. except I was talking about installing a permanent 240v outlet (dryer plug) on the outside of the house and installing a dedicated 40amp breaker in your panel box. This is what I do when the power goes out.

Jmac00 · Mar 11, 2017

Blimey said:
I really know little of electricity. Is that safe? So in layman's terms since 240 comes from the road into your main breaker, you just turned your main breaker off and then with the generator's 240 output sent it through your dryer's 240 to mimic the 240 that normally comes from the street.

as long as you turn the main breaker off, yes. you're just 'back feeding' the panel box. with 240v....the issue is this. A generator, at least the older ones, don't deliver a nice smooth sine wave. With a uneven sine wave things like computers don't work so well. The newer generators with INVERTER TECHNOLOGY delivers a perfect sine wave and all your computerised stuff should work perfectly. The reason you want the main off is incase the street power comes back on unexpectedly. You don't want to hammer your generator with 240v street power.

Would a cheap transfer switch do the same thing? I've seen some simple ones that seem to do basically the same thing; when the switch is on the main breaker is off, then you just turn on whichever breakers you need, as power is fed through the transfer.

yes, but you still have to connect your generator to the transfer switch vie a cable

Got my power back last night. Was out just over two days. We got it back in time for very low temps. I won't do this again. Going to make sure the next outage I can cover a little better. The inverters saved my butt but I want something a bit better.

when it comes to powering your home, to many people go for the smallest they can get away with. I would suggest at the least a 5500 watt generator. If you can afford a 8000 watt, you can pretty much run anything you want.

I run a 5500watt and I can run my furnace, fridge and a TV with no problem

twax100 · Mar 11, 2017

I'm a lineman for one of the power companies here in NY.

First things first, if you're going to install a generator that back feeds anything in your house please please PLEASE have it done professionally. It won't just shock us, it'll fry us. Yes we have safety precautions just in case but shit happens, and the less hazards present the better.

Secondly my particular barn sent 8 guys out to the Buffalo area Thursday. I talked to one guy last night and he said there was still over 100 broken poles to be fixed. I know they plan to be there at least a few more days. With that said, the area is flooded with line crews. Hopefully most of you will be back on soon. Especially with how cold this weekend will be.

vanderblack · Mar 11, 2017

Jmac00 said:
this is essentially what I was suggesting. except I was talking about installing a permanent 240v outlet (dryer plug) on the outside of the house and installing a dedicated 40amp breaker in your panel box. This is what I do when the power goes out.

I want to add the outlet outside and the dedicated breaker for it. I keep saying "one of these days". The kit Dantheman suggests looks like a nice safety option.

Jmac00 · Mar 11, 2017

vanderblack said:
I want to add the outlet outside and the dedicated breaker for it. I keep saying "one of these days". The kit Dantheman suggests looks like a nice safety option.

add up the equipment you want to power up...Furnace, Fridge, freezer, Tv..... use Ohm's law to figure out your total wattage

Power(watts) = I(amps) x V(volts)

this will give you the total watts of the generator you will need. Granted, not all the appliances will be running all at the same time, however with a generator it is entirely possible they will be.

also, keep in mind you're going to want a generator with "inverter" technology. It delivers a nice clean sine wave signal. Your TV modem, router and electric motors will like it a lot better. But they are more expensive.

A transfer switch simply takes the guess work out the equation. You are still going to need a generator and an outlet for the Transfer switch and a cable from your generator location to the outlet.

a 240v 3-wire outlet with a 2x4 box is about $12, a few feet of 8-2 with ground will be another 20 bucks (depending on how far you go) and a couple of plug for the cable will be another dollars, so for $100 or so you can have a nice setup.

Jmac00 · Mar 11, 2017

an our illustrious leader finally showed up in Rochester, said the National Guard is on the way.......3 days late. But what the hell, we could use a good well dressed, organized clean up crew.

and Old Monkey face had this to say "when the temperatures go down, houses eventually begin to freeze without power and heat"

wel thank freaking God this douche bag finally showed up to tell everyone without power, they're going be cold

AND Mr Dipshit Monkeyface wants to start an investigation as to why RG&E was "totally unprepared for a storm of this magnitude" fucking idiot

what everyone in western NY wants to know, is why YOU are totally unprepared to be a governor

Kwalsh · Mar 11, 2017

Good luck getting power back and cleaned up, hope everybody stays safe and it turns out to be nothing more than an inconvenience

Bob · Mar 11, 2017

Jmac00 said:
add up the equipment you want to power up...Furnace, Fridge, freezer, Tv..... use Ohm's law to figure out your total wattage

Power(watts) = I(amps) x V(volts)

this will give you the total watts of the generator you will need. Granted, not all the appliances will be running all at the same time, however with a generator it is entirely possible they will be.

Keep in mind that anything with a pump, motor, or compressor requires additional current to start. This is referred to as "surge current." It can be anywhere from and additional 10%-400% of the operating current of the device. If this isn't accounted for, you may end up popping a breaker every time the compressor on your fridge fires up.

Jmac00 said:
AND Mr Dipshit Monkeyface wants to start an investigation as to why RG&E was "totally unprepared for a storm of this magnitude" fucking idiot

Governor Twatwaffle seldom comes to this side of his kingdom, so he doesn't understand what the serfs deal with. Storms like this come along about once every 10 years. We expect to be without power for a few days. It's just a part of living in western NY that we accept. It really is only a minor inconvenience for most of us.

He just needs to stay the fuck away and let us be.

Jmac00 · Mar 12, 2017

Bob said:
Keep in mind that anything with a pump, motor, or compressor requires additional current to start. This is referred to as "surge current." It can be anywhere from and additional 10%-400% of the operating current of the device. If this isn't accounted for, you may end up popping a breaker every time the compressor on your fridge fires up

This true, thats why I say get a generator big enough to handle a lot of stuff. Also people need to realize this is a temporary situation and need to be smart about what they are running. My Generator is 5500 watt, my next generator is going to be 8000+ watts with inverter tech AND diesel powered with electric start

dwa12479 · Mar 12, 2017

Blimey said:
Thanks for all the responses. A few specific questions:

1) Since I want to hook the generator up to the house so that I can take full advantage of all its available watts, do I need a generator with a 240 V output? I see some fairly inexpensive ones don't have a 240 V output. I don't know if attaching two 120V in series is safe or works properly in this context.

2) Re. comments about clean power. I noticed with my "modified sine wave" 12 DC-120 AC inverters this weekend (these are the standard, entry level inverters) off my car, none could power my computer UPS power supplies because the electricity was too dirty. I got the fridge running, but its lights flickered (motors ran okay, though). TVs and lights ran fine. There are 12 DC pure sine wave inverters that give clean electricity to resolve this. I also see there are gas "inverter generators", which give clean electricity but they are much pricier than standard generators. Will a modern standard generator, like the $300-500 ones (champion brand, for example), give clean enough power for everything in my house? The newer, compact inverter generators run about 2X the cost, and with how infrequently I expect to use this I can't stomach $1k for a 3500 continuous inverter generator.

jmac I know you like the inverter generators, but a whole house one is just crazy expensive considering my power only goes out every few years for any meaningful amount of time. I'm kind of thinking of getting a pure sine wave inverter ($100) to run stuff like my router, and then a regular generator for furnace, fridge, etc.

4000 Peak/3200 Running Watts, 6.5 HP (212cc) Generator CARB

I'm using a fairly cheap ($300) Harbor Freight Predator, it's only 4,000 peak and 3,200 watts running. Something like that will not even come close to running your whole house. That wasn't my initial intention either, otherwise I would have had to go bigger. I powered up 6 circuits through a Reliance Transfer switch in my breaker panel. It runs the sump pump, kitchen refrigerator, furnace, the lights in two bathrooms (we keep the dimmers set way low), a few outlets in the living room for TV and computer, and a few kitchen outlets to charge phone and flashlights and make coffee. It got the job done this week, but I definitely would have liked to have more power. My main concern is too many things starting all at once, like the fridge and sump pump come on while the furnace blower is running. The startup power needed is often 3 times the running power. The lights in the dining room dim noticeably at times when the furnace or fridge turn on.

Jmac00 · Mar 12, 2017

Blimey said:
jmac I know you like the inverter generators, but a whole house one is just crazy expensive considering my power only goes out every few years for any meaningful amount of time. I'm kind of thinking of getting a pure sine wave inverter ($100) to run stuff like my router, and then a regular generator for furnace, fridge, etc.

Inverters only work for a step up power situation...12v to 120v. you would have to get a deep cycle battery and connect that to a inverter and then power your router, it could work with no problem. Now, I don't know if backfeeding a panel box would clean up a sine wave signal?

BUT~~~~ Here is how a panel box works. I'll see if I can explain this in simple terms

when you open your panel box you see two rows of breakers. These breakers are "Odd numbered" on the left side and "even number" on the right. so when you count breakers on the left side, it goes 1....3....5....7 ect, ect same on the right side, 2...4...6...8. ect.

think of it this way: hold your hands in front of you, open and flat and then put your fingers from one hand inbetween the fingers of the other.

These overlapping lugs are why one breakers has 120v, the left side is 120v and the right side is 120v.....but if you put a "double pole breaker in, like for a dryer or for a water heater, you get 220v.

This is why you need a 240v outlet on your generator to backfeed your panel box.

p.s. and this is why it is critical you turn off your main breaker when back feeding your panel box, the power guys are going to come long and start connecting wires, if you didn't turn off your main, guess what, you're essentially powering the grid.....not good and could get someone killed, so PLEASE use your head when doing this

pjzwtl · Mar 12, 2017

I second this option. Anyone can have a brain fart, wife or kids see the neighbors power is on and throw the main on...etc etc.

Dantheman said:
If you want to safely back feed get an interlock kit. We converted cooking, clothes drying and water heating to propane over 20 years ago.
That left us with an unused 30 amp dryer outlet.

Our electrician replaced that outlet and changed the breaker.

Manual Transfer Switch Kits | Generator Interlock Kit

Dan

Jmac00 · Mar 12, 2017

Blimey said:
Thanks, Jmac. I am totally bought in on keeping the breaker off!

Do I need a 240 on the generator though or could I use two of its 120V running serial with a combined cable?

Cheapest 240 V outlet gen I can find on amazon is the durostar for $325: https://www.amazon.com/DuroStar-DS4...1489336326&sr=8-2&keywords=durostar+generator It has a switch; on the left is 120 V or on the right is "120v/240V"

Looks like I could run that straight into the house and then turn on breakers on either of my poles.

I'm not sure how many amps the 12 V on these ones can tolerate, but I could then actually plug in a $40 "pure sine wave" inverter from amazon to get super clean electricity for delicate electronics like my UPS power supply, then I could run my entire home network and my security cameras, too.

--------------

So this is kind of funny. One of my neighbors is researching stand by generators for their house now. People on facebook are pointing out that a portable is way cheaper, but the main reason they cannot go that route is that they have nowhere to store it and their garage is full. So instead of buying a tiny plastic shed or chest and putting a portable in that, they are going to end up spending many thousands for a whole house generator which will...sit also outside in basically the same spot a storage chest would I know not storing and cycling gas would be a boon, though.

no you can't run two 120v lines independently to get 240. $325 bucks for a generator is a pretty good

Rochester area worst power outage in over a decade

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