Savage 99 Accuracy Problem

[meketrefe]

a dirty bore is not reason enough to fail or prevent you from getting the rate of twist.
if you have a projectile swag it down the bore to both measure the twist and see if the bullet properly engages whatever is left of the grooves.
this is key and even more critical towards the end and crown that might swell over time.
in the old days they didnt always stress relieved the alloy as they do today after forging and machining.

 

[Acer-m14]

Turns out, the bore wasn't as nice as it looked. Previously, I ran a dry patch down the bore and everything looked clean and shiny.

I ran another patch down yesterday to check the twist rate and noticed the rifling wasn't grabbing the patch enough to twist it. Uh oh....

Next I ran some Hoppes through the barrel brushed the bore, and ran another patch. Ick! Lots of green, black and metallic copper sparkles. I've been alternating between Hoppes and Hoppes Elite with extra copper remover. Each cycle has been VERY productive. Patches come out with varying shades of green, black and orange.

View attachment 175570

View attachment 175571

Once I get the barrel clean, I'll give it another try.

holy crap that is one dirty girl .. ..

 

[JRtraderny]

Turns out, the bore wasn't as nice as it looked. Previously, I ran a dry patch down the bore and everything looked clean and shiny.

I ran another patch down yesterday to check the twist rate and noticed the rifling wasn't grabbing the patch enough to twist it. Uh oh....

Next I ran some Hoppes through the barrel brushed the bore, and ran another patch. Ick! Lots of green, black and metallic copper sparkles. I've been alternating between Hoppes and Hoppes Elite with extra copper remover. Each cycle has been VERY productive. Patches come out with varying shades of green, black and orange.

View attachment 175570

View attachment 175571

Once I get the barrel clean, I'll give it another try.

Keep scrubbing !!

 

[MuttCat]

Poking around the spy network there's quite a bit of talk about the 99's barrels quickly heating up with negative effect on accuracy.

 

[whauburger]

I think I have a can of that gunslick foaming cleaner if you want to try it.

 

[Karpteach]

I think I have a can of that gunslick foaming cleaner if you want to try it.

Best stuff on earth!

 

[kev74]

After wearing out several brushes over 3 or 4 days of swabbing and scrubbing, I think I've got it clean (really, I mean it this time!). Nothing but Hoppes on the patch after swabbing, brushing and sitting for a few hours.

I probably won't get to the range to try it again till next week.

 

[S&W Fan]

After wearing out several brushes over 3 or 4 days of swabbing and scrubbing, I think I've got it clean (really, I mean it this time!). Nothing but Hoppes on the patch after swabbing, brushing and sitting for a few hours.

I probably won't get to the range to try it again till next week.

Now yer gonna havta re-season the barrel before you can discover it’s real accuracy.

 

[kev74]

Now yer gonna havta re-season the barrel before you can discover it’s real accuracy.

I'll be happy if I can get enough shots on paper to replicate a shotgun pattern.

 

[whauburger]

If it is going to bother you this much I suppose I can step in, be a friend and relieve you of its headaches

 

[Karpteach]

If it is going to bother you this much I suppose I can step in, be a friend and relieve you of its headaches

Your such a caring friend.

 

[whauburger]

Your such a caring friend.

I try and help others when I can

 

[S&W Fan]

Well, did you get back out with it to test wether that thorough cleaning helped ?

 

[kev74]

Well, did you get back out with it to test wether that thorough cleaning helped ?

I haven't. The rifle range at my club closes 1/2 hour before sundown. I haven't had a chance to get there in time yet.

 

[whauburger]

I could test it in my back yard for you

 

[kev74]

I could test it in my back yard for you

I'm not trading for the toilet bowl!

 

[whauburger]

I'll throw in a roll of foam

 

[meketrefe]

I'm not trading for the toilet bowl!

not yet.

 

[kev74]

I think I'm going to have something to work with here. 3 shots at 25 yards.

 

[S&W Fan]

I think I'm going to have something to work with here. 3 shots at 25 yards.

View attachment 177866

Were those cold ?

 

[kev74]

Were those cold ?

They were the first 3 rounds I shot out of the gun.

I only made 8 rounds, but was able to get a couple of hits on the 100 yard plates holding about a foot low.

I have to figure out how to adjust the Lyman peep sight. Either its stuck or I'm doing something wrong.

 

[S&W Fan]

They were the first 3 rounds I shot out of the gun.

I only made 8 rounds, but was able to get a couple of hits on the 100 yard plates holding about a foot low.

I have to figure out how to adjust the Lyman peep sight. Either its stuck or I'm doing something wrong.

I think that you adjust a peep sight like you would a bow pin sight. If you are hitting low adjust it in that direction.

 

[kev74]

I think that you adjust a peep sight like you would a bow pin sight. If you are hitting low adjust it in that direction.

I haven't figured out how to get the peep to move. If I loosen the collar, the peep still won't move.

Gonna have to do some youtubin tonight.

 

[meketrefe]

kev.
this makes more sense but it is also telling you that you are way off on your sighting setup.
look, if you secure your rifle aligned with the target and look through the barrel bore into the target, that center spot in the bore at 25 yards is where your bullet is going to impact. No need for a bore sight to know this. Then wo touching or moving the rifle or anything, if you peek at the sights the peep/sight should be in the same spot or ideally 1/2 to 1" below the impact reference obtained from looking through the bore. In your case it looks that is going to be way way off so you have to bring your peep up or rear system down.
This classic method always put the actual first shot on the paper very close to zero wo wasting time and ammo. one can also do it before going to the range in a garage or basement clamping down the barrel and using a distant wall, a level, some paper and marker, laser boresight is great but not needed.
it is estrange the sights are that off unless they were never used and sighted or something got replaced or damaged.
cleaning thr bore is always a good thing but not the reason for your issues that ended up being a pretty basic and simple thing to correct.
i dont have to tell you that if you are going to shoot with iron then a quality adjustable diopter and fine post is the best way.
good luck.

 

[kev74]

kev.
this makes more sense but it is also telling you that you are way off on your sighting setup.
look, if you secure your rifle aligned with the target and look through the barrel bore into the target, that center spot in the bore at 25 yards is where your bullet is going to impact. No need for a bore sight to know this. Then wo touching or moving the rifle or anything, if you peek at the sights the peep/sight should be in the same spot or ideally 1/2 to 1" below the impact reference obtained from looking through the bore. In your case it looks that is going to be way way off so you have to bring your peep up or rear system down.
This classic method always put the actual first shot on the paper very close to zero wo wasting time and ammo. one can also do it before going to the range in a garage or basement clamping down the barrel and using a distant wall, a level, some paper and marker, laser boresight is great but not needed.
it is estrange the sights are that off unless they were never used and sighted or something got replaced or damaged.
cleaning thr bore is always a good thing but not the reason for your issues that ended up being a pretty basic and simple thing to correct.
i dont have to tell you that if you are going to shoot with iron then a quality adjustable diopter and fine post is the best way.
good luck.

It's a Savage 99 lever action. Front post on the barrel, rear peep on the tang / receiver. I can't look through the barrel to verify zero.

The rifle was made in 1926. I got it with a box and a half of ammo. I'm reloading for it, but brass is nearly unavailable.

My first intention was to verify it worked and goes bang. When shooting at paper, I couldn't see my hits. That brings me to my first post in this thread.

Now I know it works and shoots accurately, I'll work on zeroing it in. It's got an older Lyman peep sight. I'm trying to be delicate in manipulating it.

 

[meketrefe]

It's a Savage 99 lever action. Front post on the barrel, rear peep on the tang / receiver. I can't look through the barrel to verify zero.

The rifle was made in 1926. I got it with a box and a half of ammo. I'm reloading for it, but brass is nearly unavailable.

My first intention was to verify it worked and goes bang. When shooting at paper, I couldn't see my hits. That brings me to my first post in this thread.

Now I know it works and shoots accurately, I'll work on zeroing it in. It's got an older Lyman peep sight. I'm trying to be delicate in manipulating it.

View attachment 177997

oh! Sorry I forgot. If you have a lever action then use the boresighter but I see you have another bigger problem that explains why your rifle shooting so high.
Based on the last picture it looks like your rear sight base is bent upwards due to some type of damage.
the base should be well seated over the stock
following the same curve towards the grip and comb.

see here....

 

[kev74]

oh! Sorry I forgot. If you have a lever action then use the boresighter but I see you have another bigger problem that explains why your rifle shooting so high.
Based on the last picture it looks like your rear sight base is bent upwards due to some type of damage.
the base should be well seated over the stock
following the same curve towards the grip and comb.

see here....

View attachment 178006

View attachment 178010

View attachment 178007

I saw that, but I'm a little scared to bend it back.

I'm going to work slow and do lots of research.

 

[meketrefe]

well that part needs to ho back where it belongs.
take it apart and heat up the base to aneale it so going slowly you bend it back into shape.
if you want to make a perfect fit take off and make a mold of that corner of the stock using hard hot glue or plastic epoxy makinh a mold after you wax the area well. Then releae it and using the mold and a piece of scrap metal use the mold to create a contour of the stock in something that can be filled with jb weld and give you a hard base with the same precise contour.
then use that profile that is a clone of the stock to putt there the annealed base on the vise and with a strong front screw on and large brass punch and small ha.mer work it out from top to bottom. the hammering will also stress relief the bend. go slowly
when done you can sand, polish, etc...
look if you can drill at the bottom to put a screw of the same classic style as the top one and this way prevent the same problem. then reblue it.

... or find a used one in good shape.

 

[nortatoga]

Brownells has a replacement sight.

SAVAGE ARMS 99 REAR SIGHT | Brownells

Adds a touch of authenticity to pump and lever action rifles, whether they’re used for hunting or Cowboy Action Shooting. Provides better sight definition and faster target acquisition in the field or on the range. Locates the aperture closer to t...

www.brownells.com

 

[FRANKIE]

Brownells has a replacement sight.

SAVAGE ARMS 99 REAR SIGHT | Brownells

Adds a touch of authenticity to pump and lever action rifles, whether they’re used for hunting or Cowboy Action Shooting. Provides better sight definition and faster target acquisition in the field or on the range. Locates the aperture closer to t...

www.brownells.com

Now that you know it’s available you can take a shot at @ meketrefe’s #58 post.