School Me on Optics

[Catskillkid]

I'm thinking about investing in some new glass. Right now the Ares SCR has an EOTech on top which is great, but was thinking about something else, possibly with magnification. Same with the Mini-14 which is currently just running irons. Both are chambered in 5.56.

Been only using irons with my Saiga (7.62x39) but have been thinking about upgrading. I have a side mount but and seriously considering purchasing a new dust cover with the picatinny rail on it to attach the optics directly to that. Any recommendations for something AK optics?

 

[Podmonkey]

I am also agonizing over optics for an AR.
Your options will be determined by budget and application. For example I want a versatile optic that will allow me to shoot at very close range out to 400 yards so I am looking at a 1x4 scope. This will be for a SHTF rifle as well so I want something that can withstand some abuse. My budget is 1k or less. I've pretty much settled on a Trijicon Accupower. I just don't know which reticle I want.

 

[Catskillkid]

Similar boat and similar desires to yourself. I don't want to break the bank but if necessary I'm willing to shell out some shekels if needed.

 

[togmaster]

I just bought a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6. Nice scope and maybe the best bang for the buck out there.

 

[Podmonkey]

Check out the Burris scopes. They are about half as expensive as the Trijicons with a corresponding drop in optical clarity but I read that they are also tough and durable.

 

[Aimtite]

with that much drop and carbines I would stick to something with small footprint yet adjustable and versatile.
What kind of shooting do you do? Past 200 yards, 300 ... 500, Small or large targets?
It is mostly bench shooting or you want something small, lighter and less intrusive?
Would you like to trace and identify the impacts w/o a side optic?

 

[Phauxtoe]

distance you want it tuned for makes all the difference.
100 yds or less
100 yds or more

perhaps keep the Mini14 for 100 or less
and the ACR for 100 or more...

 

[Catskillkid]

Thanks all. I should have specified that the majority of my shooting is pretty limited to 100 yards (perhaps a bit more in some cases). I guess what I'm looking for is a all around versatile scope or scopes that can be all things to all people (or rifles in this case). Of course then again there's the saying "jack of all trades but master of none."

The Trijicons are totally badass but then again they're uber expensive (though you get what you pay for I suppose). I was actually looking at some of the Leupold AR scopes (the ones specifically designed for the .223/5.56 round) and thought that that may have potential. Anyone have any experience with them?

 

[Snappo]

Not sure if this helps you with your search, but I got a used (but perfect) Nikon P223 with Nikon M223 mount for $250. I believe I paid $350 or so for each of my EOTech 552's (I have 3) with the N size batteries. Only thing I would change - I should have gone with the AA version even though the nose is a bit longer.

 

[Aimtite]

For 100 or 200 yards don't need a first focal plane nor paralax adjustment.
I would pick up one with good warranty, good service and from a reputable optics company dedicated to design/make optics and not a retailer selling OEM scopes.

 

[Snappo]

@ Aimtite - I'm getting up there in years and I have to say I actually use my paralax adjustment at 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500 at my range all the time on glass that has that functionality. And even when I get it perfect, I think the cataracts are getting bad enough that they drive me crazy. I just never feel like I am getting "perfect" clarity, but I am not at the point of doing surgery.

I have never made a warranty claim with any of the following companies: Leupold, Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, Zeiss or Unertyl. I have had issues with a Pentax Lightseeker 30 (I have 4 units and 1 is failing) and it still sits on a shelf because they make it fairly impossible to reach them and get an RMA to send it back.

 

[Aimtite]

Snappo, It is all about trade-offs. If you want to be able to read a newspaper at 200 yards then a target scope with high magnification, parallax adjustment and quality glass will allow you to do that
but you might be around 40oz and a very large tube so might not be the first choice for AR carbines or light hunting rifle.
Something in between might do but again what is the objective. If something is for super fast adquisition at alternating distances there is no time for adjusting anything other than holding
on some sort of stadia/reticle or the target itself.
The parallax in long range not only gives you the capability to adjust to the target but it also allows you to look for mirage at different ranges and adjust to changing conditions.
Fix parallax might be good as low as 1" potential deviation due to error at 200 yards or perhaps 7-8 inches and from there it only gets worse. Bottom line, one needs to know what is buying and even more important is, why.

 

[Podmonkey]

Well there ams 1x8s out there but they run the big $$$$$$!

 

[Snappo]

Snappo, It is all about trade-offs. If you want to be able to read a newspaper at 200 yards then a target scope with high magnification, parallax adjustment and quality glass will allow you to do that
but you might be around 40oz and a very large tube so might not be the first choice for AR carbines or light hunting rifle.
Something in between might do but again what is the objective. If something is for super fast adquisition at alternating distances there is no time for adjusting anything other than holding
on some sort of stadia/reticle or the target itself.
The parallax in long range not only gives you the capability to adjust to the target but it also allows you to look for mirage at different ranges and adjust to changing conditions.
Fix parallax might be good as low as 1" potential deviation due to error at 200 yards or perhaps 7-8 inches and from there it only gets worse. Bottom line, one needs to know what is buying and even more important is, why.

Excellent points, Aim. What you buy is totally based on your application and your price point.
For bolt rifles (100 yards through 600 yards, and 1K yards and beyond for 50 BMG) I use scopes that can go down to 3 or 4 magnification, but up to 16 to 32 to calculate wind based on mirage. My scopes include Leupold LR/T, Pentax Lightseeker 30, Nikon Monarch, Nikon P223 / P308, Springfield Armory Government, Bushnell 3200 (on my Barrett M99A1) Zeiss, and Unertyl.
For CQB (Galil, AR, AK) I use EOTech (3 of them) and Trijcon (one of them). My EOTech batteries die even when turned off, so I keep a few dozen N batteries nearby. Trijcon never dies.
For Lever Action I have an EOTech and an open-iron (no way I was going to mutilate a Henry)
For Semi auto rifle (M1 Garand, Springfield SOCOM-II) I am open iron.
For sidearm my only scoped is an S&W 500 with a Nikon pistol scope.

 

[NirvanaFan]

I was actually looking at some of the Leupold AR scopes (the ones specifically designed for the .223/5.56 round) and thought that that may have potential. Anyone have any experience with them?

I've heard good things about those scopes. I'm a fan of Leupold scopes. I've got a VX-R 4-12 on my .308 bolt gun and like it. I may try out a Vortex scope next though.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Any variable scope that starts with the number 1.

The last thing you want is a magnified scope on the low end which makes anything below 50 yards pretty much useless.

And if you shoot with both eyes open at up close shots which you should be doing to still maintain peripheral vision, having one eye magnified while the other isn't could cause havok with your site picture.

Another option is to add a magnifier with a flip to side mount behind your eotech. Flip it in when you need it and flip ot away when you don't.

These magnifiers come in 2x all the way up to 7x.

 

[Aimtite]

Wiljr75,
There are scopes with 1.5 an 2 that are perfectly ok for 50 and 25 and even 10 yards.
Also because the advertised magnification might not be precisely 1.5 or x2 as this is arbitrary depending
on how the scope is setup and exit pupile adjusted.
I would say the starting x1 would be the most natural to put a picture together but there are other
factors that make a x 1.5 or x2 very suitable. Good eye relief with fast adquisition and specially plenty field of view
can be very confortable. In fact the Leupold VX-3 sarts at 1.5 and is very popular in big game safaris with huge field of view,
well priced and it can take a beating w/o coming apart.
x2-7 are very versatile and very good ones and well priced, I think in in 2nd place to the popular x3-9 segment that due to the
huge assortment has amazing deals.
The most important characteristic of a scope is if can hold zero. Not all scopes hold zero. If they don't they are useless.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I for one could never get a good perfect sight picture quickly with anything magnified with both eyes open. Even with a 3x Acog.

It's doable but not the best and certainly not the fastest.

 

[Aimtite]

I for one could never get a good perfect sight picture quickly with anything magnified with both eyes open. Even with a 3x Acog.

It's doable but not the best and certainly not the fastest.

Not x3 you are right but 1.5 or 2 work ok. Specially because might not be precisely 1.5 or 2. The brain puts that picture together with both eyes open. The stadia/reticle design is also important.
Bottom-line one needs to go and try the scope or at least look through one the same model or similar from the same line.
Leupold, Burris didn't become popular with dangerous game / close encounters with a charging buffalo or lyon including poop in the pants.
I would say the op ask around at the range and local folks from forums. Most people have no problem in letting others inspect equipment and even take a few shots.