Self-Defense or Murder?
- Thread starter SomeSoldier
- Start date
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Once they let him go and the threat was seemingly over he had the ability to separate himself from the situation. He probably should have but his emotions seemed to get the best of him. Remember the saying, every bullet that leaves your gun has a lawyer attached to it. My opinion is based on the 58 seconds in the video. If more information shows that there was still a threat then I would retract what I just said.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Here's my 2 questions.
1) What proceeds the video to things getting physical? Who was the initial aggressor?
2) He got away, hopped the wall, ran a few feet towards the camera, and then hopped the wall back to the danger side. Why? Was there someone(s) off camera to the left that turned him back into the attackers?
I guess to me it looks like he seemingly had more than one opportunity to escape, and didn't. No question that fearing for his life was entirely justifiable, but how did he get into that situation? Ill reserve judgement pending LOTS more info.
1) What proceeds the video to things getting physical? Who was the initial aggressor?
2) He got away, hopped the wall, ran a few feet towards the camera, and then hopped the wall back to the danger side. Why? Was there someone(s) off camera to the left that turned him back into the attackers?
I guess to me it looks like he seemingly had more than one opportunity to escape, and didn't. No question that fearing for his life was entirely justifiable, but how did he get into that situation? Ill reserve judgement pending LOTS more info.
Need more info..
If he was attacked just out of the blue, then by all means defend yourself, get safe, and then hunt each down and dispatch them; you attack me all rules are off and you forfeit all rights to life even if it takes me time to maneuver and take all of you out. It is a form of warfare.
If he was attacked just out of the blue, then by all means defend yourself, get safe, and then hunt each down and dispatch them; you attack me all rules are off and you forfeit all rights to life even if it takes me time to maneuver and take all of you out. It is a form of warfare.
Would it make a difference of this was a stand your ground state?
Looks like he was a counter protester at a protest rally over a statue and one group of protesters had ejected him off the property after he tried to make his way to an altar. They tossed him over the wall, which he hopped back over and again ejected, then drew his gun.
I doubt this will be viewed as self defense. They may even claim he was looking to assassinate one of the protest leaders.
I support his right to carry, but there are consequences if you do stupid things while doing so.
Man shot during Juan de Oñate statue rally in Española
I doubt this will be viewed as self defense. They may even claim he was looking to assassinate one of the protest leaders.
I support his right to carry, but there are consequences if you do stupid things while doing so.
Man shot during Juan de Oñate statue rally in Española
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
Supposedly happened over statue that was removed but apparently was replaced the MAGA hat wearing guy wasn't the shooter so that's just fluff for story impact in IMO!
Doesn't look like guy who fired was in any immediate danger from the short video
Doesn't look like guy who fired was in any immediate danger from the short video
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Not necessarily. Again, it depends on how/why the physical altercation started. We don't have that info from this video.
I don't disagree. My point was directed at members who said he got away and should have run.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
I agree it is important to know who the aggressor is and what happened prior. I also think it’s important to know what state and what laws are there . From what I can see he does not appear to be the aggressor and appears to being fleeing attack. He also does get away but then they attack him again. I can’t say I blame him for what he did and I think he did a great job. He appears to have good form and shot placement is great. He has the distance he needs to draw his gun adequately
Lacking knowledge as to who was the initial aggressor, but based solely on the video,
Self defense.
Ps- defined distance from the altercation within reason shouldn't be the key factor making this a murder charge. Ex 5 feet to 20 feet.
In a split second, the defender doesn't know if his attacker is armed or not, nor whether he can outrun him. Flight may not provide the desired result and he has milliseconds to decide. Remember, would it be reasonable for him to believe he was in immediate threat of death or great bodily harm. He had already been assaulted, and a second assault seemed imminent. He fired once and fled.
Absolutely self defense
Self defense.
Ps- defined distance from the altercation within reason shouldn't be the key factor making this a murder charge. Ex 5 feet to 20 feet.
In a split second, the defender doesn't know if his attacker is armed or not, nor whether he can outrun him. Flight may not provide the desired result and he has milliseconds to decide. Remember, would it be reasonable for him to believe he was in immediate threat of death or great bodily harm. He had already been assaulted, and a second assault seemed imminent. He fired once and fled.
Absolutely self defense
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Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Agreed.
Over the wall and ability to run away...should not have drawn and fired.
That said, I have no idea what was happening off camera stage right. Did a hostile draw first? I do not know.
OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
I think something that is rather telling is the words that I think are coming from the person recording:
"let him go let him go let him go let him go"
The recorder clearly recognized that the people assaulting the shooter were breaking the law and had no justification for the physical force they were using. Put in the context of one-vs-many, physical force can quickly become deadly physical force.
Yes, as we MMQB this, it seems that the threat was over about 1 second before the shooter pulled the trigger. But I'll bet dollars to donuts every single one of us had to rewatch it a few times to be confident in that assessment. The shooter didn't have that luxury - he had one second to determine whether the situation was over or ongoing.
With the disclaimer that I'd also like more context - what happened before, what was happening off-camera - given the limited context provided, I would call this self defense... albeit a poor example.
"let him go let him go let him go let him go"
The recorder clearly recognized that the people assaulting the shooter were breaking the law and had no justification for the physical force they were using. Put in the context of one-vs-many, physical force can quickly become deadly physical force.
Yes, as we MMQB this, it seems that the threat was over about 1 second before the shooter pulled the trigger. But I'll bet dollars to donuts every single one of us had to rewatch it a few times to be confident in that assessment. The shooter didn't have that luxury - he had one second to determine whether the situation was over or ongoing.
With the disclaimer that I'd also like more context - what happened before, what was happening off-camera - given the limited context provided, I would call this self defense... albeit a poor example.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Looked good to me. He was fleeing a mob , he had an opportunity to fire then fled again and was pursued. I have no problem with it.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
who am I but in my humble opinion it does look good for him....he has retreated to a safe place but with that said you only see him in the frame....hard to say not seeing what other person was doing....ready to throw a knife or coming over the wall? need more eye witness information but.......