Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school

[spat]

This makes a lot more sense than what has been reported and the resulting hot takes. One or two cops out of a dozen, okay, I could believe that their courage failed them. But for most of them, this is their raison d'etre. I saw this kind of attitude in the Corps and I've seen it from the few cops I know. I have a hard time believing that dozens of men like that sat back and didn't do everything they could do end this.

The vast majority of cops would have been more than willing to risk their lives in such a situation.

It's unfathomable that all the ones present were cowards.

But, it's also well documented that nearly all cops will follow orders even if they know they are morally wrong. So if ordered to stand down and wait, they would. They would hate it, but they would follow orders.

"It's not my call", or "he's in charge so he mist know something I don't"

And that's the right answer, until the official call is *that* wrong. If the guy in charge is going to issue orders that are that far removed from common sense because he "knows something" then he damn well better communicate that something with the orders, or people should say "fuck those orders we're going in".

 

[fresch]

Only we never learn from any of this.

 

[BerettaGuy]

He's really not saying anything differently than what you could see in this thread. He's apparently very upset that he had friends at scene who are getting all kinds of criticism.

Look, it's a difficult situation. Things went wrong. Learn from it.

Was there an immediate response? Yes, we know that. They took fire, and backed off to regroup. Commanding officer then made a bad decision, and yes weather he wants to hear it or not nothing else was done while kids were laying inside dying.

It's a horrible shitty situation, but unfortunately one that will set an example for others to learn from.

Shitty or not! The cops that tackled and cuffed parents, or even threatened to need to be terminated by the people.
The more I think about it, if the cops legally have no duty to protect and actually believe that, and report to work every day with that in mind, then there is absolutely no reason (other than they exist to protect the ruling class) for them to be armed and like here in NY have "special exemptions" from laws that restrict us!
THINK ABOUT IT!
I mean! Here in NY LE can have AR-15s and even M-4s. 30-round mags and don't even need a permit to carry.
WHY? Why do they have special privileges if they have no duty to protect "we" the freaking people! Because Cuomo and Hochul Schumer and the rest need them to protect them!
PS. To the FBI simps monitoring this forum, Fuck off!

 

[Cavalry]

But before we start the timeline, we must first ask an extremely important question: How did an 18 year old man, with no known employment, whom was living with his grandmother because of an addict mother, afford:

While this point is very very valid, he was employed. He worked at Wendy's. But yes, even if he had no bills because he was living with the grandparents, with that job it must have taken some time to save up that sizable amount. Teenagers like buying things, I dont know many that even with limited bills could save up that kind of money.

 

[fresch]

Sell drugs, make that money fast.

 

[Jem45472]

Shitty or not! The cops that tackled and cuffed parents, or even threatened to need to be terminated by the people.
The more I think about it, if the cops legally have no duty to protect and actually believe that, and report to work every day with that in mind, then there is absolutely no reason (other than they exist to protect the ruling class) for them to be armed and like here in NY have "special exemptions" from laws that restrict us!
THINK ABOUT IT!
I mean! Here in NY LE can have AR-15s and even M-4s. 30-round mags and don't even need a permit to carry.
WHY? Why do they have special privileges if they have no duty to protect "we" the freaking people! Because Cuomo and Hochul Schumer and the rest need them to protect them!
PS. To the FBI simps monitoring this forum, Fuck off!

I actually forgot for a minute about the ones tackling, detaining, threatening to taze the parents.

Them bastards need to be fired!

These parents needed some compassion, talking to, or give them your damn vest if nothing else was going to be done and let them go.

Absolutely despicable behavior.

 

[livingston]

Uvalde Robb Elementary School was Under Lockdown Due to Gunshots in the Area - Announced Students and Staff were Safe Until Teacher Propped Door Open | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

New information revealed that on Tuesday, Robb Elementary School’s official page announced that the school was indeed placed on lockdown due to gunshots heard around the area.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Uvalde Robb Elementary School was Under Lockdown Due to Gunshots in the Area – Announced Students and Staff were Safe Until Teacher Propped Door Open​

New information revealed that on Tuesday, Robb Elementary School’s official Facebook page announced that the school was indeed placed on lockdown due to gunshots heard around the area.

Executive Director of Communications and Marketing of Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (CISD), Anne Marie Espinoza, announced that Robb Elementary was under a lockdown status and the students and teachers were secured.


The Gateway Pundit previously reported, a testimony from law enforcement said that a teacher propped open the entry door one minute before the accident, according to Col. McGraw.

We have the teacher who propped open the door calling 911 but NEVER secured the door again. The suspects walks through said door at either 11:33 or 11:40, depending on which press conference you watched, and walks down a hall and into a room that may or may not have been locked.

Based on the timeline of COL. STEVEN MCGRAW, DIRECTOR OF TEXAS DPS
11:28: Ramos crashes into the ditch. The teacher runs to room 132 to retrieve a phone. The same teacher walks back to the exit door and the door remains propped open.

(No time given): Ramos opens the truck and two men from the funeral home, who were checking on him, take off running when they see a gun. They’re shot at but no one is hit.

11:30: The teacher runs back inside, panicked, and apparently calls 911. Door remains propped open. The use of the word “apparently” is peculiar. At this point in the investigation, with this detailed of a timeline, you would think that teacher has been identified, confirmed and a statement taken, that they did in fact call 911.

Uvalde Robb Elementary School was Under Lockdown Due to Gunshots in the Area - Announced Students and Staff were Safe Until Teacher Propped Door Open | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

New information revealed that on Tuesday, Robb Elementary School’s official page announced that the school was indeed placed on lockdown due to gunshots heard around the area.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[livingston]

from the comments section in article posted above
The League • 2 hours ago
So let me get this straight.. there was a shooting in the area, a teacher goes outside and "forgets" to lock the door again. The shooter having a $5000+ gun, 1500+ rounds and a brand new Truck while being piss poor makes his way to the school. He happens to find the one door that is left unlocked by the teacher, enters the door and begins murdering people. At that point, the police arrive and stand there, refusing to go in and deal with the active shooter against their protocols. They stand there for well over an hour actively arresting parents who want to go in and save their children.
I am sorry, but man does that sound suspicious as hell. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say this was done on purpose.

 

[spat]

I actually forgot for a minute about the ones tackling, detaining, threatening to taze the parents.

Them bastards need to be fired!

These parents needed some compassion, talking to, or give them your damn vest if nothing else was going to be done and let them go.

Absolutely despicable behavior.

"We can't let you go in because you might get hurt"

"Our kids are getting murderer in there, why aren't you stopping him ?

"We have no duty to protect anyone"

"If you have no duty to protect that means the only reason you're stopping me is because you're an asshole ?"

 

[livingston]

My girlfriend says at Geneseo school all doors are alarmed except front door after school starts. .. Cannot have children leaving without notice .. Some have indeed wandered off school grounds without notice in the past.

 

[Jem45472]

I think they know exactly who left it open, it is on video that being erased as we type

While we don't know for sure yet, I'm seeing reports that someone was checking on the gunfire being heard in the area, then called 911.

While we would like to place blame here on an open door, in my eyes while not completely inexcusable, I can see the mistake of it not being locked again in a hurried panick by a school official.

There are a whole series of things here that have gone wrong.

It's a matter of time before we also find out that this individual has had run ins with law before, and should have been a red flag.

In the meantime, we shall pay the price in the form of more laws that will do absolutely nothing to prevent this sort of thing again.

 

[livingston]

While we don't know for sure yet, I'm seeing reports that someone was checking on the gunfire being heard in the area, then called 911.

While we would like to place blame here on an open door, in my eyes while not completely inexcusable, I can see the mistake of it not being locked again in a hurried panick by a school official.

There are a whole series of things here that have gone wrong.

It's a matter of time before we also find out that this individual has had run ins with law before, and should have been a red flag.

In the meantime, we shall pay the price in the form of more laws that will do absolutely nothing to prevent this sort of thing again.

All that was needed was just closing the door. it was propped oped by all accounts. .. How can one call this a mistake. By all accounts that door should have never been opened in the first place. She broke a rule and people died. This is the same as a truck driver not setting the air brakes and said rig rolls down hill and kills a dozen people. Rule number one .. set parking brake .

 

[Jem45472]

All that was needed was just closing the door. it was propped oped by all accounts. .. How can one call this a mistake. By all accounts that door should have never been opened in the first place. She broke a rule and people died. This is the same as a truck driver not setting the air brakes and said rig rolls down hill and kills a dozen people. Rule number one .. set parking brake .

Understood. I'm just saying I can see how this could happen in a panic.

 

[FRB]

"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil. When a man’s ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him." - Proverbs 16:6-7

 

[tirwin1]

The usual types are, of course, saying this incident means we need stricter gun control for everyone. I think it's ass-backwards. If the people nominally charged with public safety (the police) do nothing while children are being slaughtered then the responsible answer is everyone must arm themselves and take care of their own family. Because the government has proven they not only won't do their job but will prevent you from doing it.

Not a good state of affairs.

"When specially equipped federal immigration agents arrived at the elementary school in Uvalde, Texas on Tuesday, the local police at the scene would not allow them to go after the gunman..."

"... who had opened fire on students inside the school, according to two officials briefed on the situation." The NYT reports. Also: "[P]ol...

althouse.blogspot.com

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

But before we start the timeline, we must first ask an extremely important question: How did an 18 year old man, with no known employment, whom was living with his grandmother because of an addict mother, afford:

-Two expensive firearms made by Daniel Defense ($2,000 each)

-an EOTech optic ($400-$700)

-1,657 rounds of .223 ammo ($800-1000 depending on how they were purchased)

-body armor ($500-1000)

-and over 60 magazines ($10-20 each)

for a total of approximately $6300 to $8,000……

What Really Happened in Uvalde?

Please follow my work at Rumble.com/CannCon and CannCon.Locals.com

canncon.substack.com

Again. If you are willing to do what he did you can get into alot of activities that make money fast. Most if not all being illegal of course. I was always amazed at how on shows like intervention the addicts are able to maintain a $500 to $1k habit with no job and their life in shambles. Many people on the straight and narrow struggle to make 52k a year. Imagine what someone with this type of ambition and drug free could do. $8k for these types wouldn't be hard to come up with given enough time.

 

[Cavalry]

a brand new Truck while being piss poor

While most of those points are valid concerns, the truck is reported as being the grandparents and is far from new. Looks to be a 2004-2008. Judging from the grandparents house and the truck I would agree that they did not have a lot of money or at least didn't spend it on such things.

 

[spat]

All that was needed was just closing the door. it was propped oped by all accounts. .. How can one call this a mistake. By all accounts that door should have never been opened in the first place. She broke a rule and people died. This is the same as a truck driver not setting the air brakes and said rig rolls down hill and kills a dozen people. Rule number one .. set parking brake .

How would the locked door have changed anything?

He took the path of least resistance. That doesn't mean a slight change in that path would have made any difference.


Would the outcome have been any different if he came in the front door? Broke a window ? Broke that door?

 

[Jem45472]

How would the locked door have changed anything?

He took the path of least resistance. That doesn't mean a slight change in that path would have made any difference.


Would the outcome have been any different if he came in the front door? Broke a window ? Broke that door?

Unlocked door is just an unlikely byproduct of this incident.

It's already known fact of his plan to shoot grandma, then to shoot up school.

He more than likely was going to shoot that door out anyways to make entry.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Shooter was sleeping on the floor at his grandparent's. 2 bedrooms, GP's in different rooms. Not many places to hide 2 rifles, vest, ammo.

 

[togmaster]

Teacher's Fatal Mistake Allowed Texas Shooter to Simply Walk Into Locked-Down Elementary School

This teacher no doubt feels horrible about the decision he or she made, having no notion it would have such catastrophic consequences.

www.westernjournal.com

Teacher's Fatal Mistake Allowed Uvalde Shooter Instant Access to Locked-Down School​

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw revealed Friday that a teacher at Robb Elementary School had propped open a side door just minutes before a shooter entered through it and went on a deadly rampage.

In doing do, the teacher violated one of the basic tenets of school safety that may well have led to the needless deaths of 19 students and two teachers Tuesday.

Can you imagine having to live with a decision like that? Unreal...

 

[Jem45472]

I don't have any faith in this kids family knowing anything he was up to, or hiding.
He was planning on killing them, and they had no clue.

 

[Jem45472]

Can you imagine having to live with a decision like that? Unreal...

Read 2 posts above this post. It's unfortunate the door was open, but this shooter had intentions of going in anyways. After firing shots at people across street, firing shots at school, he wasn't going to go "oh shit the doors locked, I better go home". He was gaining entry either way.

 

[Jem45472]

Kids being evacuated.



I can't for the life of me figure out why this pos wasn't taken out earlier.

Break the damn window to draw fire, and take him out.

I'm not leo, but you have at least 2 access points. Brick wall under and around windows and door. Team at each area should have been able to end this quickly with relatively minimal risk.

I really think whoever was in charge here deserves more than just handing in a resignation, and also should be at least civilly liable.

 

[holdover]

The vast majority of cops would have been more than willing to risk their lives in such a situation.

It's unfathomable that all the ones present were cowards.

But, it's also well documented that nearly all cops will follow orders even if they know they are morally wrong. So if ordered to stand down and wait, they would. They would hate it, but they would follow orders.

"It's not my call", or "he's in charge so he mist know something I don't"

And that's the right answer, until the official call is *that* wrong. If the guy in charge is going to issue orders that are that far removed from common sense because he "knows something" then he damn well better communicate that something with the orders, or people should say "fuck those orders we're going in".

Im not disagreeing with you, but If you were a cop, and said fuck this, I cant stand here and do nothing and decide to go in, and you end up getting people killed, or he started killing hostages, or a buddy of yours comes in to help you because you were wounded gets killed because you didnt follow orders what do you think is going to happen? People died because you wanted to be a hero isnt going to go to well for you . and you have to live with that.

Whoever gave the order to stand down has blood on thier hands. Its hard for me to comprehend that all those officers were just scared. Hard to swallow.

On the other hand, how could you just stand there and listen to shots? This shouldnt of happened after columbine . SOP is you go in . I absolutely condemn the supervisory officers that told them to stand down. They should be charged criminally

 

[Jem45472]

Im not disagreeing with you, but If you were a cop, and said fuck this, I cant stand here and do nothing and decide to go in, and you end up getting people killed, or he started killing hostages, or a buddy of yours comes in to help you because you were wounded gets killed because you didnt follow orders what do you think is going to happen? People died because you wanted to be a hero isnt going to go to well for you . and you have to live with that.

Whoever gave the order to stand down has blood on thier hands. Its hard for me to comprehend that all those officers were just scared. Hard to swallow.

On the other hand, how could you just stand there and listen to shots? This shouldnt of happened after columbine . SOP is you go in . I absolutely condemn the supervisory officers that told them to stand down. They should be charged criminally

Technically agree with everything you said, but morally it would have been the right thing to do.

 

[livingston]

Unseen Hero: As Cops Let Shooter Terrorize School, 1 Mom Sneaked in, Rescued Her Kids, Got Out Without Shooter Knowing​

As the media’s attention turns to police officers who stood outside a school in Uvalde, Texas, and refused to enter while a mass shooter killed 21 people on Tuesday, a mother is being hailed as a hero for going into the school to rescue her two children as the carnage unfolded.

Unseen Hero: As Cops Let Shooter Terrorize School, 1 Mom Sneaked in, Rescued Her Kids, Got Out Without Shooter Knowing

'They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere,' the mother said of police.

www.westernjournal.com

 

[holdover]

Technically agree with everything you said, but morally it would have been the right thing to do.

I cant argue with you. They shouldnt have been put into that position in the first place.

 

[spat]

Im not disagreeing with you, but If you were a cop, and said fuck this, I cant stand here and do nothing and decide to go in, and you end up getting people killed, or he started killing hostages, or a buddy of yours comes in to help you because you were wounded gets killed because you didnt follow orders what do you think is going to happen? People died because you wanted to be a hero isnt going to go to well for you . and you have to live with that.

Whoever gave the order to stand down has blood on thier hands. Its hard for me to comprehend that all those officers were just scared. Hard to swallow.

On the other hand, how could you just stand there and listen to shots? This shouldnt of happened after columbine . SOP is you go in . I absolutely condemn the supervisory officers that told them to stand down. They should be charged criminally

Yea, once you are given shitty orders like that there is no good solution.

But, the one where you save kids and get vilified for it is better than the one where you let them all die and then rationalize it to yourself for the rest of your life that you were "just following orders".

If a group of parents had armed up and forced their way in past the cops and rescued half the kids, you *know* the cops would be blaming them for the half that died before they got there.

They would probably end up in prison.

But their kids would be able to come visit, so what do you do.

Looks like the border patrol agent who went in is pretty close to that. He borrowed a shotgun from his barber, he was off duty getting a haircut when he got the call that his kid was in there.

 

[spat]

Unseen Hero: As Cops Let Shooter Terrorize School, 1 Mom Sneaked in, Rescued Her Kids, Got Out Without Shooter Knowing​

As the media’s attention turns to police officers who stood outside a school in Uvalde, Texas, and refused to enter while a mass shooter killed 21 people on Tuesday, a mother is being hailed as a hero for going into the school to rescue her two children as the carnage unfolded.

Unseen Hero: As Cops Let Shooter Terrorize School, 1 Mom Sneaked in, Rescued Her Kids, Got Out Without Shooter Knowing

'They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere,' the mother said of police.

www.westernjournal.com

All the people talking about physical security need to explain this one.

If this woman was able to get in and get her kids with half the police in Texas outside trying to stop her, how much more security do you think you need ?