Smith & Wesson managed to fix my revolver.......after an age

[Koz]

I might or might not have a pile of S&Ws revolvers. With the exception of a newer 442 with Crimson Trace laser scales I often carry, none have a lock or mim parts. As appealing as the new Smiths look, give me an old one that was properly cared for and they will run flawlessly for a lifetime and well beyond. You can own a great M27-2 for around the same price as a new 586. Not to knock the 586, but for me there is no comparison. I haven't had too many interactions with the folks at S&W, but I've never had an issue with either their CS or their shop work. Maybe I'm just lucky.
All that said, my bug out and woods gun is a 70's, 4" Ruger stainless Security Six. It checks all of the right boxes.

 

[Podmonkey]

Got a call from my ever helpful LGS that S&W will be shipping my ostensibly repaired revolver back to them very shortly so I should be able to report on its status aoon

 

[fresch]

I might or might not have a pile of S&Ws revolvers. With the exception of a newer 442 with Crimson Trace laser scales I often carry, none have a lock or mim parts. As appealing as the new Smiths look, give me an old one that was properly cared for and they will run flawlessly for a lifetime and well beyond. You can own a great M27-2 for around the same price as a new 586. Not to knock the 586, but for me there is no comparison. I haven't had too many interactions with the folks at S&W, but I've never had an issue with either their CS or their shop work. Maybe I'm just lucky.
All that said, my bug out and woods gun is a 70's, 4" Ruger stainless Security Six. It checks all of the right boxes.

Pod,
hope the Smith smithy did a good job and you get that sight change as a surprise.

The
Ruger sec six, great shooter, nice size and weight.

 

[FRANKIE]

Regardless,
S&W is an excellent choice
IMO I think overall S&W still makes a hell of a product ( arguably the best). I do think there customer relations has gone to shit, but this has been going on for years. Through experience I can tell you if they give you anything for your troubles, just have them mail it to you and have smith install it. Win win
Works like a charm

 

[Podmonkey]

Regardless,
S&W is an excellent choice
IMO I think overall S&W still makes a hell of a product ( arguably the best). I do think there customer relations has gone to shit, but this has been going on for years. Through experience I can tell you if they give you anything for your troubles, just have them mail it to you and have smith install it. Win win
Works like a charm

Two S&W revolvers in a row having to immediately be returned to S&W for repair and a 6-9. MONTH backlog on performance center work has me disagreeing with you. Short sighted boomer business policy of maximizing short term profit by sacrificing quality has taken its toll.

 

[FRANKIE]

Two S&W revolvers in a row having to immediately be returned to S&W for repair and a 6-9. MONTH backlog on performance center work has me disagreeing with you. Short sighted boomer business policy of maximizing short term profit by sacrificing quality has taken its toll.

Sorry to hear that. Haven’t engaged with them in quite a while. I guess times are a changing. Good luck with it. And most of all stay on them.

 

[Podmonkey]

Sorry to hear that. Haven’t engaged with them in quite a while. I guess times are a changing. Good luck with it. And most of all stay on them.

I have, they fixed it or so they claim and are sending back. I asked for a fiber optic front sight to be put on as compensation for my inconvenience and after 6 weeks weeks of delay I finally was told that all custom work (like replacing sights) has a 6-9 month wait time. I told customer service to forget the sight and return my gun forthwith and they have agreed to do so. I expect it to be back in my hands by the end of the week.

 

[Brawny71]

I have, they fixed it or so they claim and are sending back. I asked for a fiber optic front sight to be put on as compensation for my inconvenience and after 6 weeks weeks of delay I finally was told that all custom work (like replacing sights) has a 6-9 month wait time. I told customer service to forget the sight and return my gun forthwith and they have agreed to do so. I expect it to be back in my hands by the end of the week.

You may want to control your expectations early.

 

[FP1201]

Two S&W revolvers in a row having to immediately be returned to S&W for repair and a 6-9. MONTH backlog on performance center work has me disagreeing with you. Short sighted boomer business policy of maximizing short term profit by sacrificing quality has taken its toll.

Believe me it's not just S&W...Remington did it for a decade under Freedom Group, Kimber, Wilson Combat, Colt (they were just plain turning out shit) and many others.
Our propensity to offshore manufacturing and corner cutting of what is still made here has destroyed what was once the Gold Seal of "Made In America" for unparalleled quality.
From the time of the Industrial Revolution until a century later, "skilled Labor" was inexpensive and Technology wasn't...today Skilled Labor IS expensive and Technology is cheap, problem is taking unskilled labor and combining it with cheap technology often ends in substandard products, and if you complain they give you the "we're sorry you had a problem with our Product, we're sending another" (that's likely as shitty as the one you complained about) after all, we add a dollar to the cost of every widget to more than cover failure replacements.
Someone once pointed out "Sorry" is the new "fuck you".

 

[Podmonkey]

You may want to control your expectations early.

If it is not fixed to my satisfaction I will make life miserable for their customer service department by harassing them daily via phone and emails. There are several entities on various social media outlets that specialize in creating PR disasters for corporations that I will will get in touch with. I've been down this road before with other companies: you can get whatever you want from them if you make yourself a big enough nuisance. It just takes time and persistence.
In fact I got the straight scoop on what was going on after making twice daily calls to S&W customer service for 4 days in a row. My typical MO is to alternate from being downright abusive to being reasonable. It's an effective technique. During an abusive phase you will be hung up on in short order in which case you immediately call back. It helps to use an app thar can send fake numbers to caller ID systems so you don't get screened, sometimes I will call simultaneously on multiple lines. I am an absurdly stubborn and spiteful person, it really is better to just give in to what I want.
The key is to have only a reasonable demand to begin with however. I have no shame, I will say the most outrageous things to the reps and then when I get to their supervisors I switch gears and make calm and well reasonable arguments. When that invariably fails I revert back to calling people cunts or whatnot and begin the cycle anew. It takes a while, typically around 8 hours of constant calls but I have yet to fail to break a customer service department. I have successfully pulled this off with Priceline.com, Breezline ISP, Enterprise Car Rentals, my previous employer's payroll dept and Venmo/PayPal. I'm at the point where I have come to enjoy the challenge. God help S&W if I am not satisfied. In such case my demand will be a full refund of the revolver.

 

[FRANKIE]

Yes
Make the time, and stay persistent. A while back I was involved in a shit show with them.
(S&W).
Sent a firearm in for service and I wasn’t hearing from them. Although I held the paperwork that it was delivered and signed for (complete with the employees name who received it) on there loading dock, they told me it was not inventoried and couldn’t account for its wearabouts. Giving them the opportunity to locate it in the next 48 hours I informed them that it was my duty to report it lost/stolen.
By the end of that business day it was found. Within one week it was repaired and even hardly questionable things were even replaced.

 

[S&W Fan]

What a sad state of affairs the industry in this country has become. What there is left of hard working , industrious skilled labor is over shadowed by spineless week minded individuals and umbrella investment groups that care little for product quality.

 

[Koz]

I am beginning to think all US manufactures are dealing with shitty employees and using substandard parts. I don’t often buy new guitars. I much prefer vintage or at least older pieces. I however have gotten 2 new Gibsons (ES 335 and a LP Special) both needed new tone pots within a month or so of very, very light home use. Are they buying their parts from Temu? I took the ES 335 back to the dealer because all work is done through the small “F” holes. It is now back there for the 3rd time! Hopefully that’s the charm! The Special, I just replaced myself. I expect American guitars to come from the factory without flawed parts and their dealer network to be able to make repairs correctly. Especially for the money Gibson gets. I’m sympathetic to your blight!!!

 

[fresch]

When your quality competition is set at the lowest setting to gain the highest profit, you have to cut corners and double up on useless employees.

But! Have you seen the price of everything? Plus quality?
All production everywhere must be turnd to -11.

 

[Xae289]

I am beginning to think all US manufactures are dealing with shitty employees and using substandard parts. I don’t often buy new guitars. I much prefer vintage or at least older pieces. I however have gotten 2 new Gibsons (ES 335 and a LP Special) both needed new tone pots within a month or so of very, very light home use. Are they buying their parts from Temu? I took the ES 335 back to the dealer because all work is done they the small “F” holes. It is now back there for the 3rd time! Hopefully that’s the charm! The Special, I just replaced myself. I expect American guitars to come from the factory without flawed parts annd their dealer network to be anble to make repairs correctly. Especially for the money Gibson gets. I’m sympathetic to your blight!!!

Believe me, it's not employees, it's 100% on management. They talk a big game about "quality this, the customer that, one big family" while paying poor wages, creating a shitty work environment, layoffs, firing expensive (skilled) employees to hire cheap (inexperienced) ones, cutting costs on materials and processes (especially QC), and then feeding customers their BS. Absolutely quarterly profits vs long-term reputation thinking. Funny how high-quality US manufacturers like Staccato or Stealth Arms don't suffer from the same problems that companies like Kimber or S&W do. Hell, look at Glock. They may not innovate, but their product is rock steady and rarely has any defect.

 

[Podmonkey]

Corporations are run by extremely shortsighted Corpos fresh from the MBA college mill. All they know how to do is maximize short term profit by cutting costs to the absolute minimum. They have no tgought whatsoever to the long term effects of diminished quality on long term sales. They don't care, they don't belive in any higher power and there only morality is to get as much as they can as soon as they can and get out before everything collapses. Modern western society has no concern for leaving a legacy, we have adopted the communist morality of not seeing past the now.

 

[Darth]

If it is not fixed to my satisfaction I will make life miserable for their customer service department by harassing them daily via phone and emails. There are several entities on various social media outlets that specialize in creating PR disasters for corporations that I will will get in touch with. I've been down this road before with other companies: you can get whatever you want from them if you make yourself a big enough nuisance. It just takes time and persistence.
In fact I got the straight scoop on what was going on after making twice daily calls to S&W customer service for 4 days in a row. My typical MO is to alternate from being downright abusive to being reasonable. It's an effective technique. During an abusive phase you will be hung up on in short order in which case you immediately call back. It helps to use an app thar can send fake numbers to caller ID systems so you don't get screened, sometimes I will call simultaneously on multiple lines. I am an absurdly stubborn and spiteful person, it really is better to just give in to what I want.
The key is to have only a reasonable demand to begin with however. I have no shame, I will say the most outrageous things to the reps and then when I get to their supervisors I switch gears and make calm and well reasonable arguments. When that invariably fails I revert back to calling people cunts or whatnot and begin the cycle anew. It takes a while, typically around 8 hours of constant calls but I have yet to fail to break a customer service department. I have successfully pulled this off with Priceline.com, Breezline ISP, Enterprise Car Rentals, my previous employer's payroll dept and Venmo/PayPal. I'm at the point where I have come to enjoy the challenge. God help S&W if I am not satisfied. In such case my demand will be a full refund of the revolver.

That'll sure show the customer service rep that most likely has nothing to do with it.

 

[Depick]

Way too much trouble for a handgun. I’d return it and buy something else.

 

[Brawny71]

It’s a shame. Even their revolvers are failing QC now.

 

[kev74]

I bet you won't have any of those problems with this baby!

Beretta Manurhin Revolvers | Firearms | Find a Dealer

Manurhin revolvers: a blend of classic craftsmanship and modern precision. Time-tested reliability for those who demand the best.

www.beretta.com

 

[S&W Fan]

I bet you won't have any of those problems with this baby!

Beretta Manurhin Revolvers | Firearms | Find a Dealer

Manurhin revolvers: a blend of classic craftsmanship and modern precision. Time-tested reliability for those who demand the best.

www.beretta.com

Ouch !

 

[Podmonkey]

That'll sure show the customer service rep that most likely has nothing to do with it.

You have completely missed the point of the exercise which is not to punish customer service reps but to harass them to the point where they kick you up the chain until you come to the person that actually has the authority to correct the situation. CSRs are otherwise trained to resist moving you along, the amount of abuse they require to eventually do so is entirely up to them. I start out perfectly cordial and will escalate only as much as is necessary to have the issue resolved, they could resolve the issue straight out and receive no abuse and indeed receive sincere gratitude from me instead. Such was the case when I had a little difficulty in getting an automatic withdrawal canceled for rent to my previous landlord. The CSR was quite helpful and after a little rooting around in the system was able to get the payments canceled to which I offered hearty thanks.
Do right by me and I am pleasant and easy going, give me the run around and it becomes my mission to ruin your day.

 

[FRANKIE]

I bet you won't have any of those problems with this baby!

Beretta Manurhin Revolvers | Firearms | Find a Dealer

Manurhin revolvers: a blend of classic craftsmanship and modern precision. Time-tested reliability for those who demand the best.

www.beretta.com

If it’s anything like there shotguns
Price looks good to me

 

[Darth]

You have completely missed the point of the exercise which is not to punish customer service reps but to harass them to the point where they kick you up the chain until you come to the person that actually has the authority to correct the situation. CSRs are otherwise trained to resist moving you along, the amount of abuse they require to eventually do so is entirely up to them. I start out perfectly cordial and will escalate only as much as is necessary to have the issue resolved, they could resolve the issue straight out and receive no abuse and indeed receive sincere gratitude from me instead. Such was the case when I had a little difficulty in getting an automatic withdrawal canceled for rent to my previous landlord. The CSR was quite helpful and after a little rooting around in the system was able to get the payments canceled to which I offered hearty thanks.
Do right by me and I am pleasant and easy going, give me the run around and it becomes my mission to ruin your day.

They *might* be able to kick you up the chain. Often they cannot or face larger repercussions. Having worked that hell of a call center job I can say with confidence that often you are doing nothing more than harassing a CSR that literally has no control over the situation. So "the amount of abuse they receive" is often not up to them.

 

[Podmonkey]

They *might* be able to kick you up the chain. Often they cannot or face larger repercussions. Having worked that hell of a call center job I can say with confidence that often you are doing nothing more than harassing a CSR that literally has no control over the situation. So "the amount of abuse they receive" is often not up to them.

That'll hasn't been my experience. It takes time but if you are persistent someone will EVENTUALLY resolve your issue. It can take 8 hours or more though.

 

[fresch]

Any return of your weapon yet?

 

[Podmonkey]

No

 

[Podmonkey]

So I spent the last 2 hours haranguing S&W customer service. Each rep would eventually hang up after I refused to. One rep hung on for nearly 30 minutes straight which eventually devolved into a circular argument along tge lines of :
"I don't know what to tell you sir"
"Tell me my gun has been shipped"
"I don't couldn't say when it will ship, can I help you with anything else?"
"Yes"
"What can I help you with?"
"Ship my gun back"
I don't know where that will be, it's currently processing do you understand?"
"No"
"What do you want me to say sir"?
"That my gun is on it's way back"
This went on for 15 minutes.
After about the 7th rep, I would immediately call back upon the previous call ending, I was able to to wrangle an estimate from a guy. After getting some slightly more detailed information from this particular fellow I asked if it would be a reasonable expectation for the gun to be back at my FFL by Friday of next week which is the 4th of October. He replies that would indeed be a reasonable expectation so it seems it is currently being processed by the shipping department.
I asked why the reluctance to give even a rough estimate and he replies that he doesn't want me to call back upset if the estimated date is missed.
I reply that I am already incredibly upset and by giving me a rough estimate he has bought his department till the 4th before I resume my harassment campaign, which I made sure to impress upon him that I surely would be should tge gun nit be back by then. But at least they won't be hearing from me until then. I have been calling daily for the last week.

 

[S&W Fan]

So I spent the last 2 hours haranguing S&W customer service. Each rep would eventually hang up after I refused to. One rep hung on for nearly 30 minutes straight which eventually devolved into a circular argument along tge lines of :
"I don't know what to tell you sir"
"Tell me my gun has been shipped"
"I don't couldn't say when it will ship, can I help you with anything else?"
"Yes"
"What can I help you with?"
"Ship my gun back"
I don't know where that will be, it's currently processing do you understand?"
"No"
"What do you want me to say sir"?
"That my gun is on it's way back"
This went on for 15 minutes.
After about the 7th rep, I would immediately call back upon the previous call ending, I was able to to wrangle an estimate from a guy. After getting some slightly more detailed information from this particular fellow I asked if it would be a reasonable expectation for the gun to be back at my FFL by Friday of next week which is the 4th of October. He replies that would indeed be a reasonable expectation so it seems it is currently being processed by the shipping department.
I asked why the reluctance to give even a rough estimate and he replies that he doesn't want me to call back upset if the estimated date is missed.
I reply that I am already incredibly upset and by giving me a rough estimate he has bought his department till the 4th before I resume my harassment campaign, which I made sure to impress upon him that I surely would be should tge gun nit be back by then. But at least they won't be hearing from me until then. I have been calling daily for the last week.

What a shame that it even had to progress to that point.

 

[Brawny71]

When they were telling your they didn't know where it was; "Should I call the ATF and tell them you lost it? I think I'm required to..."