Everything boils down to being a realist and proper training.
Sniper basics for shtf
- Thread starter Celt
- Start date
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Gander in Utica? I shop there and did my NRA class there. Great place.
My kids are solid shots. My one son is USMC infantry and has also gone through that training for the portable satellite communications systems (at 29 Palms). He got a lot of hands on exposure to live fire in Afghanistan. But he lives 1,200 miles away and not sure he would bug out to Upstate NY. My daughters can shoot but have no military experience. I'm just fucking old. Everything hurts, all the time. I was ridden hard and put away wet too many times, I guess.
I know the local small gunshop owners around here. All 2 of them. LOL Neighbors are nice enough folks but I don't really know them all that well. A few have drinking problems, but all of them hunt and are very protective of privacy. That's why most of us moved to the mountains - to get away from the hustle and bustle of Little Falls.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
He was definitely anal retentive. Everything he did was exactly perfect. I have such admiration for folks like that. Spoiler alert: If you buy the book with the CD, at the end of the CD Major Plaster does a 30 or so minute interview with Carlos. What a true hero and a great Marine. My dad is USMC and 45 years later he talks about Hathcock. My son is USMC and of course talks about Chris Kyle. I'm USAF, so I talk about Carl Norden and the decade I spent at Norden Systems. Kind of ant-climactic when the family gets together at Christmas and Thanksgiving. ;-(
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You can start by finding like minded people that live near you on this forum. Id suggest starting small with 4-5 people. If people did this all over the state we could eventually create one large umbrella group.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Two folks from "the other site" have been over and gone shooting with me a few times. I have a range all set up on my land. Right now I have 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards and I am in the middle of cutting down trees to make 600. Eventually I will probably go out to 800 before stopping. I could go to 1,000 but I don't have a 338 Lapua so I probably won't bother.
So far I have put together a cheat sheet of what I think a family need to survive, and I have 100% of that stuff owned and know how to use it. Or maybe not 100%, but like 95%. I still need to buy more seeds that last 10+ years and then I will be at 100%. But for food right now I have 50-100 apple trees, bees, maybe 25 acres of burdock (that is a root veggie like a potato and tastes like artichoke), 100 or so acres of grain, 100 acres of woods (unlimited supply of wood for heat and cooking), a spring well that I can run with my generator off my tractor, and exposed pond I can use my personal filtration devices on, unlimited deer, geese, turkey, rabbit, and even a resident bear that eats the leftover deer parts after I hunt, maple trees set up for syrup. I probably already have maybe 150-200 of those quart Ball jars of apple sauce, apple chutney, and apple salsa, and another year supply of canned and dried food. And anything I saw on Naked and Afraid or Doomsday Preppers; I have. Machetes, axes, fire starters, a huge medical run-kit (I am an ex EMT and my wife is a retired MD), mylar blankets, butcher knife sets, etc. I don't even know how much ammo I have. But maybe a 100K rounds across like 15 calibers and reloading equipment for every caliber I own. I have three John Deere's but I should probably get a harrow.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If a group of us trained together and became proficient at patrolling and the like, even if we didn't live close to one another, you now have 4 or 5 guys that can teach others in their own town or neighborhood.
As far as where to find like minded individuals.....
If the SHTF really bad your local Volunteer Firehouse is where they will be. Those guys will be the ones running things.
Local Police will more than likely leave to protect their own families. Most of them do not live where they work. They will go home. They will not travel 15 miles to patrol your town.
The mayor of your town will more than likely put these Volunteer Firefighters in charge and the local Sheriff will more than likely Deputize them.
If you are young enough, join the Volunteer Fire Department. If you aren't, after a SHTF event, make yourself known to them. Tell them your abilities and hang around and help out.
They can put you to work manning a checkpoint or used as a messenger for communication.
Those Firefighters and the Town Mayor will be the law.
As far as where to find like minded individuals.....
If the SHTF really bad your local Volunteer Firehouse is where they will be. Those guys will be the ones running things.
Local Police will more than likely leave to protect their own families. Most of them do not live where they work. They will go home. They will not travel 15 miles to patrol your town.
The mayor of your town will more than likely put these Volunteer Firefighters in charge and the local Sheriff will more than likely Deputize them.
If you are young enough, join the Volunteer Fire Department. If you aren't, after a SHTF event, make yourself known to them. Tell them your abilities and hang around and help out.
They can put you to work manning a checkpoint or used as a messenger for communication.
Those Firefighters and the Town Mayor will be the law.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
My son was a sniper, its a very tough school with a very high failure rate. He has given me many tips that have made me a better shot. I like it when my kids know more than I do on any given subject.
Robin
Robin
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Geeze Snappo, you looking to adopt I might be available, I'm good a puttering around.
Robin
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Geeze Snappo, you looking to adopt I might be available, I'm good a puttering around.
Robin
All my stuff is textbook. In USAF they provided all of what we needed for a march. So real world is way different. Have you watched Naked and Afraid yet? That show is epic at teaching how to think through the issue and survive. I can cut a tree though and make firewood, and know how to plant seeds and water the plant. I'm also good at picking apples. I have no clue how the previous farmer ran the maple syrup but he did cap off those blue tubes for each tree. I know how to use pretty much all the tools I own. I think the hardest part in the zombie apocalypse is that everything becomes a manual process once you run out of gas. Ugh! LOL I am also thinking I should learn how to turn corn into oil and gas. If I can do that then I am in the catbird seat for sure.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
That's awesome information. I had no idea that the VFD would run the show. But what stops them from all going home too? And if the Sheriff deputizes them, will they be given firearms? Because the city slicker mobs aren't going to be much interested in a firefighter telling them to stop raping and pillaging the local farms.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They live in the same town. The town is their home.
This is not set in stone with rules written down anywhere but it's the only logical conclusion if society collapses. Those fireman be the only able bodied uniformed men that live within walking distance of the town.
If gas is no longer an option, the world gets smaller.
As far as firearms go, if the SHTF hard enough that there are no cops around, those that have firearms will carry them no matter who they are.
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Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Which makes sense. We will all throw that stupid SAFE Act out the window and grab our Galil's, AR's, and AK's and sling them over our shoulders. No way after the zombie apocalypse do I go anywhere without an AK or Galil.
I wonder if anyone with a lot of 3D printer skill has gone ahead and made 3D printer versions of those $39 DIAS's you used to be able to buy in the early 80's in the back of Soldier of Fortune Magazine? Those drop in auto sears made a semi auto AR into full auto in under 2 minutes and even a novice could do it.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well, I already know how to do all those things you mentioned Snapper, and heck, I don't even need power, I do everything with hand tools anyway and when the Kerosine runs out, I'll just turn in early. So I guess I'm set.
Robin
Robin
This is actually a really interesting take that I hadn't thought of and it makes sense. Hmmm....
And people LOVE firemen. They are just awesome in most peoples eyes. They do little wrong and almost never are they involved in a scandal.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Sniping is a tactic , not a tool. The Western idea of sniping is much more highly developed than the Eastern style of sniping which is more along the lines of a designated marksman ( A position which was long over due for the west.) If a 14 year old Syrian kid goes on a 3rd floor of building with a 22 with the intent of hitting one soldier getting water , It would be an act of sniping , or tactic of sniping. Just as a An American sniper goes on the 3rd floor of a building to pick off an enemy gunner @ 652 yards . The act is the same. the skills and tools are not. Anybody can snipe, But not to the same skill levels as trained snipers
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
I got lost here ... are we snipers or did this turn to snipe hunting .. LOL ...
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The modern sniper is a lot more than a bare marksman and a tactic. It is an invaluable asset for any military or organization.
They are highly trained individuals in a huge arsenal of skills and normally work in teams with very efficient tactics in intelligence gathering,
communications, field crafting, marksmanship and other essential skills and tactics that make them a force multiplier.
Of course a 13 year old boy can take a shot from a roof but it is a good way to get himself killed. A lone wolf w/o good training, communications and other
skills will not last and he/she might kill the wrong person or be killed right away.
The issue here is why people resort to absurd sales tactics like sniper rifle, sniper vest, sniper mat, sniper this and that... all sounds tacticool but IMO sends the wrong message. Responsible firearm owners should accept the responsibility to educate the young in proper ownership and the right mindset
based on the real world conditions and not the movies or video games.
Unlike in the video games there is no recall button in real life. Game over means you are done for good.
They are highly trained individuals in a huge arsenal of skills and normally work in teams with very efficient tactics in intelligence gathering,
communications, field crafting, marksmanship and other essential skills and tactics that make them a force multiplier.
Of course a 13 year old boy can take a shot from a roof but it is a good way to get himself killed. A lone wolf w/o good training, communications and other
skills will not last and he/she might kill the wrong person or be killed right away.
The issue here is why people resort to absurd sales tactics like sniper rifle, sniper vest, sniper mat, sniper this and that... all sounds tacticool but IMO sends the wrong message. Responsible firearm owners should accept the responsibility to educate the young in proper ownership and the right mindset
based on the real world conditions and not the movies or video games.
Unlike in the video games there is no recall button in real life. Game over means you are done for good.
Many people confuse the term of Sniper to being able to shoot small targets at long distances. I used to love listening to customers at Gander saying they were going Sniper shooting.
Again, anyone can practice at shooting far distances. That is very easy to learn. To be a Sniper takes a very long time.
Again, anyone can practice at shooting far distances. That is very easy to learn. To be a Sniper takes a very long time.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The modern sniper is much more than a tactic or marksman, no doubt about it. He is s highly specialized soldier . But that's not what Im saying at all . There is no comparison between a highly trained western sniper and some kid in in a third world country . The obvious difference is in the training . That kid can still use the tactics of lying concealed and waiting for a shot . That does not belong to only to Western trained sniper. The kid himself is still ""snipeing"" at a target from a concealed position . His ability to shoot is nowhere near the ability of a trained sniper. He may only be able to hit a target across a river at 100yards. Maybe. We don't consider him to be anywhere near the caliber of a Western sniper. and he may not live to long to tell the tale ,none the less what he is doing is "snipeing" at soldiers. Many of the snipers in Stalingrad were nothing more than good shots, then given a scoped up Nagant . They didn't have the time or resources to fully train them . By comparison, the modern Western sniper is a fucking monster. A completely different animal . However one is well trained and the other is not. Just because they don't have the training doesn't mean they cant snipe. And of course no where near as good or effective.
Snipeing is a verb , to snipe,
Simple Definition of snipe
Snipeing is a verb , to snipe,
Simple Definition of snipe
- : to shoot at someone from a hidden place
: to shoot at exposed individuals (as of an enemy's forces) from a usually concealed point of vantage - Definition of SNIPE
- One who snipes, is a sniper.
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The tactic , sniping, can be done by any third world kid with a rifle. That obviously does not mean they are a qualified sniper in the western sense of the word . just means they are using a tactic that's been around for a hundred years or more.
Most Police snipeing takes place at 75 yards (from a structure on one side of the street to the other) so its not distance that makes a sniper , it the employment, the tactic of using cover concealment to take a shot, At its basic definition .
western snipers are cross trained as scouts and reconnaissance, and in some cases forward observers , trained in the use of stealth and evasion and long range shooting make the Western sniper a valuable piece on a battlefield . and definitely sets him apart from a kid on a roof with a rifle. But both are still snipers by definition .
Most Police snipeing takes place at 75 yards (from a structure on one side of the street to the other) so its not distance that makes a sniper , it the employment, the tactic of using cover concealment to take a shot, At its basic definition .
western snipers are cross trained as scouts and reconnaissance, and in some cases forward observers , trained in the use of stealth and evasion and long range shooting make the Western sniper a valuable piece on a battlefield . and definitely sets him apart from a kid on a roof with a rifle. But both are still snipers by definition .
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meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I get your point and we can discuss about sniper history and evolution in another thread if you want. My idea here was simply to make sure people get some awareness and stop using the term in tacticool shit and and when it really doesn't apply to reality. (our current reality)
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I hope I didn't come off that way , Just trying to say that a person doesn't need a 338 lapua and 6 months of of training to be a sniper. Some kid from some mud hole can snipe at you .
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
No man I am not trying to argue about semantics. I am just saying the term sniper rifle, sniper mat and all that nonsense we see is the wrong way
to go about this.
to go about this.
Foxtrapper
.40 S&W
Foxtrapper
.40 S&W
I think something almost as important to learn is how to hide. After watching the video posted above, that would be priceless...
This is a really important skill to have. When in SERE school I had pursuer step between my arms with no clue to where I was. Not moving and picking the proper place to stop and not move makes a huge difference.
I am and was nearly in awe at some of the great schools the Army sent me through. Kinda funny, most of what they taught me will come in best use if things do fall apart. Don't get me wrong, they taught me many things that I used during my long career, I remember most of, I never thought, while in school, I would be using my extensive training as a civilian.