So, i had my first Tul ammo steel casing stuck in the barrel of my AR over the weekend.

[Dunedain Ranger]

Went up to my catskill property over the weekend. Was just my wife and i. I brought a new, never fired M&P sport 2 AR 15, a Kel tec RDB 5.56, and my wifes Troy "other" in 5.56.

Between the 3 rifles we fired about 1,000 rounds of brass cased .223 from hornady black, PMC, and American eagle. All 3 rifles fired beautifully, and i had the new M&P sport sighted in quickly and i was so dead on all you heard was the gong ringing. Kel tec is a BEAST and i LOVE it, wife hated it, and has a bruised shoulder to prove it.

Anyway, when we were almost all out of brass, i pulled out some boxes of Tul ammo steel cased. I never used them before, but had gotten some very cheap, so i thought i would try them. I heard that they could suck badly, and kinda expected an issue. Well after 2 shots through my wifes Troy other, the 3 round was stuck in the barrel. Would not extract, would not come out. The BCG would not rack back either. It was locked up. I took the lower and upper apart completely, and freed the BCG and charging handle. Thats when i saw the stuck case.

My wife said, " You broke my gun ", and i said, " No Tul ammo did". Unfortunately, i didnt have a ram rod, or metal cleaning rod with me, so the Troy was done for the day. We finished off the rest of the brass we had, NO more steel. When i got home i shoved a metal cleaning rod thru the front of the barrel and gently whacked it with my brass hammer. It took quite a few heavy shots to dislodge the casing. I was really hitting it hard towards the end, but it finally popped out.

Needless to say, i am very turned off to steel casing now. I fired 3 rounds of it, and number 3 stuck badly. I still have about 10 boxes of this stuff, and now i wonder if it will ever get used.

 

[meketrefe]

Tul Ammo might be going through some serious crisis to be dropping letters and who knows, even charges!
Next thing you know bullets are made of corn husks.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

Tul Ammo might be going through some serious crisis to be dropping letters and who knows, even charges!
Next thing you know bullets are made of corn husks.

All i know is i have only shot a few rounds of them, and 30% of them had the casing stuck in the barrel. I know the old "you get what you pay for", but it should at least do what its supposed to. I am sitting on boxes of this crap and i am very scared to use it again.

 

[Mosinitis]

1000 rounds fired, dirty chambers, all bets are off. Make shooting more challenging and fire less rounds. More fun, less noise.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

1000 rounds fired, dirty chambers, all bets are off. Make shooting more challenging and fire less rounds. More fun, less noise.

Not really. That was between 3 rifles, so it was about 300 rounds in each. Every rifle fired ALL the brass cased rounds perfectly. Thats before and AFTER shooting 3 rounds of steel cased, and the failure. After removing the stuck case, and not having cleaned it, i perfectly fired another 100 rounds of brass through it.

My money is on the steel casing, not dirty chambers. Also, how is shooting more "challenging" by firing less rounds? I am asking that seriously. I am always down for challenging myself more, and i would love to know how to do that by firing less rounds. Thanks in advance for any info, i may not be as smart as you, since i fire more rounds than you.

 

[dsdmmat]

A Chrome lined barrel and chamber probably would have handled the steel cased ammo better. The slicker chrome aids extraction quite a bit.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

All i know is i have only shot a few rounds of them, and 30% of them had the casing stuck in the barrel. I know the old "you get what you pay for", but it should at least do what its supposed to. I am sitting on boxes of this crap and i am very scared to use it again.

Sell it at a good price.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

Sell it at a good price.

Definitely considering it.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

A Chrome lined barrel and chamber probably would have handled the steel cased ammo better. The slicker chrome aids extraction quite a bit.

Thats good to know. Now it will give me an excuse to buy a chromed barrel and chambered AR, just so i can fire off my remaining boxes of steel cased ammo, lol. That sounds like a perfectly solid reason to purchase another rifle. Not that i really need another reason per se, but that sir is as valid a reason as any, and i thank you for it.

 

[Darth]

It happens. The cost savings make it worth it for me. I've had 2-3 do that.

 

[Vapor]

Sorry but I cringed at the "I shoved a cleaning rod down the muzzle end".


It hurt my soul a little but.

 

[Mosinitis]

Not really. That was between 3 rifles, so it was about 300 rounds in each. Every rifle fired ALL the brass cased rounds perfectly. Thats before and AFTER shooting 3 rounds of steel cased, and the failure. After removing the stuck case, and not having cleaned it, i perfectly fired another 100 rounds of brass through it.

My money is on the steel casing, not dirty chambers. Also, how is shooting more "challenging" by firing less rounds? I am asking that seriously. I am always down for challenging myself more, and i would love to know how to do that by firing less rounds. Thanks in advance for any info, i may not be as smart as you, since i fire more rounds than you.

Lacquered steel ammo was designed for tapered cases 7.62x54 and 7.62x39. Tapered cases aid extraction. 223 doesn't have a lot of taper, not a good candidate for such cases. It's doable if the chamber is kept clean. 300 round without cleaning is way too much. You can get away with it, but you are pushing it.
Fire for group sizes, not for round counts. That's the simplest challenge. More advanced is shooting in competitions.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

It happens. The cost savings make it worth it for me. I've had 2-3 do that.

In a way, you are right. When it first happened, it sucked, and ruined the rest of the day, at least as far as that rifle was concerned. That said, if i had a metal cleaning rod with me, lesson learned, i would have just popped it out, and most likely kept shooting. It popped out once i got it back and ran the rod thru it. I even fired more rounds thru it after the casing was removed, although it wasnt steel cased.

I still might give it a try again with the steel, and see what happens. Of course i will have my rod handy.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

Lacquered steel ammo was designed for tapered cases 7.62x54 and 7.62x39. Tapered cases aid extraction. 223 doesn't have a lot of taper, not a good candidate for such cases. It doable if the chamber is kept clean. 300 round without cleaning is way to much. You can get away with it, but you are pushing it.
Fire for group sizes, not for round counts. That's the simplest challenge. More advanced is shooting in competitions.

Got it, thanks. If i am going to use the steel stuff, i should probably use it FIRST, when the rifle is clean as can be. That might be the best option for using it.

Honestly, we do shoot for group sizes, as well as specifics on targets. Its never about "how many", but about "where and what". That said, we truly make a day of it, and between 2 shooters, and 3 rifles all shooting the same rounds, after about 6 hours, its quite easy to shoot almost 1,000 rounds. I can honestly tell you that nearly EVERY one of those 1,000 rounds was looked at on the targets, and discussed, and grouped, and thought about how to be even more accurate after every shot we did.

You have to remember too, a 1,000 rounds might sound like we were just blasting away, but this was not at a range. This was on my own property, all day long for many, many hours, and with the sole intention of spending the day target shooting.

 

[Acer-m14]

my savage 223 bolt rifle will only run tula steel if followed by 2 brass .. or it would get stuck in the barrel and need to be hammered out ..

i took a brass cleaning brush and put it on a short cleaning rod .. dunked it in hopps #9 and gave the chamber a good scrubbing .. and so far so good
it will shoot tula one after another and not jam up ..

my mini14 just spits out the tula like nothing .. but the ejection system shoots the casses 20 feet or more and is know for that .. LOL ..

 

[REF]

In a way, you are right. When it first happened, it sucked, and ruined the rest of the day, at least as far as that rifle was concerned. That said, if i had a metal cleaning rod with me, lesson learned, i would have just popped it out, and most likely kept shooting. It popped out once i got it back and ran the rod thru it. I even fired more rounds thru it after the casing was removed, although it wasnt steel cased.

I still might give it a try again with the steel, and see what happens. Of course i will have my rod handy.

FYI, I wouldn’t use steel cased in that Kel-Tec RDB. I had one, and I could not get through a 1/2 mag with out a FTE /FTC . Was told by them directly not to use steel. Just my 2cents

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

There's nothing wrong with blasting ammo. Sometimes just shooting steel is fun. In fact that's almost all I do and is realistic training. Shooting for groups is fine and all but to say that you should only be going for groups is dumb.

 

[Mosinitis]

There's nothing wrong with blasting ammo. Sometimes just shooting steel is fun. In fact that's almost all I do and is realistic training. Shooting for groups is fine and all but to say that you should only be going for groups is dumb.

What have you accomplished as a rifleman? Big ego doesn't count.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

What have you accomplished as a rifleman? Big ego doesn't count.

What the hell are you talking about? What have you accomplished? There is no ego in this. I like guns and shooting them. I don't have to accomplish a goddamn thing and have nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[Mosinitis]

What have you accomplished?

Where do you want me to start? It's a very long list.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Where do you want me to start? It's a very long list.

Don't start anything. No one really cares.

 

[Mosinitis]

Don't start anything. No one really cares.

You speak for all? There is more to shooting than going to the range to make noise. If that's what rocks your boat, good for you, but advising someone to make it more challenging is not DUMB.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

FYI, I wouldn’t use steel cased in that Kel-Tec RDB. I had one, and I could not get through a 1/2 mag with out a FTE /FTC . Was told by them directly not to use steel. Just my 2cents

Thank you for that info. Fortunately i did not run any thru it, and i def never will. I only ran it thru a Troy "Other" in 5.56, luckily.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You speak for all? There is more to shooting than going to the range to make noise. If that's what rocks your boat, good for you, but advising someone to make it more challenging is not DUMB.

Make shooting more fun and shoot more ammo. There's more to shooting to than making groups on paper. How's that for "advising"?

 

[Mosinitis]

Make shooting more fun and shoot more ammo. There's more to shooting to than making groups on paper. How's that for "advising"?

Next time I go to National matches, I will tell hundreds of participants, that some guy from a gun forum thinks they are doing it wrong and not having as much fun as he. They can also take their medals and trophies and throw them in the garbage, because some guy from a gun forum says nobody cares.

 

[Modean]

Next time I go to National matches, I will tell hundreds of participants, that some guy from a gun forum thinks they are doing it wrong and not having as much fun as he. They can also take their medals and trophies and throw them in the garbage, because some guy from a gun forum says nobody cares.

Many don't care. No issues with it if that's your thing, but many aren't in it for medals and trophies. Some of us just like to maintain the ability to hit what we shoot at.

 

[Vapor]

Generally it's best to shoot all steel poly or all brass. Mixing them causes this issue. I haven't had an issue in an ar type rifle with steel as long as that's all I was shooting. The polymer may also get stickier with heat.

I would personally reccomend a crown/muzzle guard and a 1 peice cleaning rod, coated steel or carbon fiber, in the future for these types of situations.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Next time I go to National matches, I will tell hundreds of participants, that some guy from a gun forum thinks they are doing it wrong and not having as much fun as he. They can also take their medals and trophies and throw them in the garbage, because some guy from a gun forum says nobody cares.

You were saying about big ego? Again no one cares. The OP said he shot 1k rounds and you "advise" him to shoot less and make it more challenging. To tell someone what they should do at the range is arrogant and your last post shows just how arrogant you are. But being one of the "annoying 5" this is your typical M.O. You come onto threads just to post nonsense and go against everyone and everything. You simply like to argue. Someone could say the sun is hot and you'll find a way to try and tell them how it's not. I won't ruin the thread anymore responding to your drivel. You're dismissed.

 

[Mosinitis]

Many don't care. No issues with it if that's your thing, but many aren't in it for medals and trophies. Some of us just like to maintain the ability to hit what we shoot at.

If you like hitting your target then you do care. Competitive shooting is just an advanced level of that.
No one has to get to that level, but shooting fundamentals and rifle/ammo accuracy knowledge comes from there.

 

[dsdmmat]

Friendly reminder: Please keep it civil. Remember shooting guns and having fun means many different things to many different people.

A lot of people start by blasting at things which react, steel, fruit, milk jugs, so on… Some move on to other things others do not.

Others start by getting something for self protection and only shoot at human silhouettes. The gun is a tool for self preservation to them and nothing else. That is perfectly fine.

Others go from blasting away to making a living shooting and that is awesome for them.

Then there is everyone in between. The point is there is no right answer for everyone. We need them all if the sport of shooting is to survive. We also need them to vote for pro 2A policies and political candidates.

A dick measuring contest here serves no one.