Things are heating up in the Donbass

Drinkthekoolaid

Drinkthekoolaid

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Well. It's about to get really ugly as many of us predicted.

Ukraine apparently has approval and is planning to store most of its donated F16s outside of Ukrainian territory farther from the front line and for maintenance and support.

I hope you guys know what this means.

Russia is already on record that they will strike them if they are used to attack Russian forces. And the f16s will be based in NATO territory.

This might be the straw that breaks the camels back to be used to get NATO pulled into the war. Ukraine is clearly losing and everyone knows it. NATO can't let Ukraine lose and needs to find a way to keep the party rolling. Well, I bet if an airfield in Eastern Poland, Lithuania, Romania gets hit by Russia that will start a new wave of arms and support And likely NATO to establishing a no fly zone.
 
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That and the new "silk road" that runs from China to Europe runs right through Ukraine.

The new Silk Road has another name - the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) - and it involves a wave of Chinese funding for major infrastructure projects around the world, in a bid to speed Chinese goods to markets further afield. Critics see it as also representing a bold bid for geo-political and strategic influence.

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
Well. It's about to get really ugly as many of us predicted.

Ukraine apparently has approval and is planning to store most of its donated F16s outside of Ukrainian territory farther from the front line and for maintenance and support.

I hope you guys know what this means.

Russia is already on record that they will strike them if they are used to attack Russian forces. And the f16s will be based in NATO territory.

This might be the straw that breaks the camels back to be used to get NATO pulled into the war. Ukraine is clearly losing and everyone knows it. NATO can't let Ukraine lose and needs to find a way to keep the party rolling. Well, I bet if an airfield in Eastern Poland, Lithuania, Romania gets hit by Russia that will start a new wave of arms and support And likely NATO to establishing a no fly zone.
Click to expand...

""The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry""

Putin knows any strike on the air bases in Poland means nuclear war with the west. He wont take the bait . Hes going to suck it up and hopefully last to the elections where he might cut a deal with the new president . Thats only a few months away. Secondly, the west has to cope with the most advanced anti aircraft systems in the world capable of shooting down missiles. and then there is the angry Russian airforce which had been held back for just such an event.

the very best the west can hope for is to slow down the Russian advance.or hope Putin attacks bases in Poland . Thats it. Putin wont attack bases in Poland an give NATO a golden opportunity to enter the war .At this point no weapon system is going to change the course of the war on the ground . Ukraine has lost .There is no path to victory where the Ukrainian army pushes the Russians out .

Its going to slow Russia down . But not defeat her. NATO, I mean Ukraine, will lose planes there is no doubt about it . Russian fighters will be fighting from under the umbrella of Russian air defenses . they wont pursue outside of side of it and they can cover most of Ukraine. and they have the numerical advantages locally, whiten the theater. Russians have look down shoot down capabilities too . The F16s just cant fly nap of the earth and go home .
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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tirwin1 said:
www.twz.com

Su-57 Felon Struck Deep Inside Russia, Ukraine's Spy Agency Claims (Updated)

Both Ukrainian and Russian sources say that for the first time an Su-57 Felon, Moscow's most advanced combat aircraft, was struck.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
Click to expand...

I am not in support of using American weapons and support to attack Russian equipment in Russia.

To put it in perspective consider the reaction here on this scenario.
We would be flipping out if Russia was giving Iraq weapons to attack America with.
 
spat

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
I am not in support of using American weapons and support to attack Russian equipment in Russia.

To put it in perspective consider the reaction here on this scenario.
We would be flipping out if Russia was giving Iraq weapons to attack America with.
Click to expand...
Who's weapons do you think they were shooting at us with in Afghanistan ?

Pretty much everyone who has fought American troops in the last 50 years has used either Russian, Soviet, or American weapons to do it.
 
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Thats correct but The Russians did not supply our enemy's with long range weapons capable of hitting city's in the US and the personnel to do it with . Thats the contention with Russia . They know god dam well its US intell US weapons and US personnel hitting them at home , basicly they are being attacked by US forces . Thats the issue .
 
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@spat that's not wrong, however it's not a fair comparison.

Giving the hajis a PKM or ak47 is NOT the same as giving the hajis kinzahls, kalibers, mig 29s, s300 and s400, command and control, surveillance drones and Intel, logistics, spare parts, direct training, to attack American troops in Afghanistan, American bases in America and American civilian infrastructure in conus. If Russia did that shit we would have bombed Russia directly and everyone knows it. And I don't even know on what scale Russia actively supported Iraq or Afghanistan. They basically stopped and stayed neutral when we told them to. Iran filled that void.

Whatever the Russians did against US interests from 2001-2021 absolutely does not even compare to what we are doing with Ukraine and Russia it's not even a comparison. If Russia did to us in 2001-2021 what we are doing to them now we would all be screaming from the rooftops that we have to stop the Russians. I'm just trying to call it how I see it and not be a homer. I genuinely think we're in the wrong here and we are provoking this conflict for our own elites gain and we are furthering death and destruction. Russia has a justified rationale for being salty at our government. I try to be objective in my opinions. I'm very pro America but I don't like what we've become.
 
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Drinkthekoolaid said:
@spat that's not wrong, however it's not a fair comparison.

Giving the hajis a PKM or ak47 is NOT the same as giving the hajis kinzahls, kalibers, mig 29s, s300 and s400, command and control, surveillance drones and Intel, logistics, spare parts, direct training, to attack American troops in Afghanistan, American bases in America and American civilian infrastructure in conus. If Russia did that shit we would have bombed Russia directly and everyone knows it. And I don't even know on what scale Russia actively supported Iraq or Afghanistan. They basically stopped and stayed neutral when we told them to. Iran filled that void.

Whatever the Russians did against US interests from 2001-2021 absolutely does not even compare to what we are doing with Ukraine and Russia it's not even a comparison. If Russia did to us in 2001-2021 what we are doing to them now we would all be screaming from the rooftops that we have to stop the Russians. I'm just trying to call it how I see it and not be a homer. I genuinely think we're in the wrong here and we are provoking this conflict for our own elites gain and we are furthering death and destruction. Russia has a justified rationale for being salty at our government. I try to be objective in my opinions. I'm very pro America but I don't like what we've become.
Click to expand...
Who's air defenses were defending Baghdad in '91 ?

What shot down that F117 in Serbia ?

Who attacked us at Conoco Fields ?
 
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Drinkthekoolaid

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spat said:
Who's air defenses were defending Baghdad in '91 ?

What shot down that F117 in Serbia ?

Who attacked us at Conoco Fields ?
Click to expand...


1 and 2 were Russian systems sold to those countries before the US was engaged in conflict with those countries. Russia didn't "donate them" to Iraq or Serbia during the middle of a conflict with the US specifically for the purposes of trying to kill US military members. Those countries were long time Russian allies or affiliated countries and when the US asked Russia to stay neutral during our conflict with them Russia did as we asked and let us destroy them.

3, shit I don't know. It seems it was Wagner and the Syrian army in an epic cluster-F because even as the battle was going on the Russian general on the phons hotline was denying there Russians involved and gave the US permission to open fire. There were Russians to some level involved but it certainly didn't appear to be a coordinated deliberate attack on US Interests. Again I don't think this is comparable to what the US is doing in Ukraine to Russia. The US and Russians were attempting to coordinate with each other where each others forces were and what they were doing to avoid conflicts. I don't think anyone will ever get the full story here on this incident. It's very possible Wagner went rogue and Russian command and control did not authorize it or have any knowledge what was happening and they were embarrassed about it so we will never get the full story. Just a guess. Who knows.
 
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Conoco Fields in a country we invaded? thats not home turf . We arent there illegally anyway
 
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holdover

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spat said:
So, like Russians in Ukraine then.
Click to expand...
I meant illegally, ( Im sure you understood )

Thats a separate issue entirely . which would require a long legal argument which I dont want to get into. But the point being made is that the Russians were there on behalf of the Syrian government as an allie of Syria , We are there illegally under US and international law . those are not Conoco oil fields, those belong to Syria.

The situation is escalating to the point where Russia will be forced to attack NATO to prevent attacks on itself . ie:Forgien airfields.

Are you supporting US attacks on Russia by covert elements to assist the Ukrainians ? This will eventually bring on WW3
 
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holdover said:
I meant illegally, ( Im sure you understood )

Thats a separate issue entirely . which would require a long legal argument which I dont want to get into. But the point being made is that the Russians were there on behalf of the Syrian government as an allie of Syria , We are there illegally under US and international law . those are not Conoco oil fields, those belong to Syria.

The situation is escalating to the point where Russia will be forced to attack NATO to prevent attacks on itself . ie:Forgien airfields.

Are you supporting US attacks on Russia by covert elements to assist the Ukrainians ? This will eventually bring on WW3
Click to expand...
If WWIII happens, history will record it as starting on 02/24/2022.

Nobody says the Germans were proactively defending themselves in Poland LOL.
 
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spat said:
If WWIII happens, history will record it as starting on 02/24/2022.

Nobody says the Germans were proactively defending themselves in Poland LOL.
Click to expand...

History is written by the victors.

Could just as easily make the case it started at an event before then or a yet to be determined date.

You could actually make a case that Japan was acting in self defense on dec 7 1941. We essentially declared war on them with our embargos and were going to economically strangle their economy. The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
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If F-16's we donated to Ukraine are launched from a NATO country to strike Russian troops in Ukraine, or targets in Russia, I have no doubt Putin will order strikes against that NATO country. The Russian people will insist it.

Maybe it means nothing ..., but the world remembers that CONUS and the American people did not suffer from warfare in WW2. They're still finding unexploded ordnance in England and Germany. The children of those European and Asian warriors are in charge of those countries now. There is not a country in the world that does not shake their head and say out loud, "Stupid Americans"... "You do not know"... . They are even more skeptical of our continued existence after the coup that occurred during the whole time of the previous Administration. "You and your 2nd Amendment..."

The European members of NATO taken all together would not be able to field an infantry division, an armored brigade, or a fighter wing without us.
Dean Rusk was right on the money when he said "while we ...(dither and twiddle our thumbs) ...3/5ths of the world plots our demise..."

If US supplied F-16's are used to strike in Russia, no one, not even our supposed NATO allies, will shed a tear if Russia strikes CONUS hard. You want a war? You got it!

We have a great portion of our population that think we are immune to reality, they think a hard time is no Starbucks and the a/c is not working. They think wild animals are as Disney portrays them.

They will learn if we poke the bear.
 
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It's not just Cuba.

In the past 20 some odd years there has been a growing relationship between Venezuela and Iran. Daily non-stop flights between Tehran and Caracas that I've read always include a contingent of Republican Guards.
Venezuela has expressed interest in acquiring a nuclear weapon.
We found a Russian designed submarine getting built by smugglers 100 miles from the coast in the late '90's. Nobody knew it was there until DEA found it.

Never mind Nicaragua.
 
spat

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
History is written by the victors.

Could just as easily make the case it started at an event before then or a yet to be determined date.

You could actually make a case that Japan was acting in self defense on dec 7 1941. We essentially declared war on them with our embargos and were going to economically strangle their economy. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Click to expand...
Things rarely happen in a vacuum, but generally the first party to send troops into someone else's territory is considered to have "started it".

Sort of like a bar fight doesn't happen in a vacuum, but the question is always "who threw the first punch".
 
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spat said:
Things rarely happen in a vacuum, but generally the first party to send troops into someone else's territory is considered to have "started it".

Sort of like a bar fight doesn't happen in a vacuum, but the question is always "who threw the first punch".
Click to expand...
...And the 3rd one into the fight is the one that gets stabbed or arrested...
 
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spat said:
If WWIII happens, history will record it as starting on 02/24/2022.

Nobody says the Germans were proactively defending themselves in Poland LOL.
Click to expand...
If WW3 happens there wont be anyone left to record it . And does it really matter? the point is, ww3 can be avoided . You would rather be right and accept ww3 rather than accept the situation as it is and let the war run its course. History will record that we choose to accept defeat in Ukraine rather than the destruction of the north hemisphere . Histroy will record that the US entered the war in 24 and began to strike targets in Russia. thats what history will record . and your all for it. The death of hundreds of millions of people and you think its a good idea and support it .

Does it matter at all who started www2? it changes nothing. those people are dead.
 
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holdover said:
If WW3 happens there wont be anyone left to record it . And does it really matter? the point is, ww3 can be avoided . You would rather be right and accept ww3 rather than accept the situation as it is and let the war run its course. History will record that we choose to accept defeat in Ukraine rather than the destruction of the north hemisphere . Histroy will record that the US entered the war in 24 and began to strike targets in Russia. thats what history will record . and your all for it. The death of hundreds of millions of people and you think its a good idea and support it .

Does it matter at all who started www2? it changes nothing. those people are dead.
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If Russia will start WWIII over this, then they're going to start it sooner or later over something.

You sound like Neville Chamberlain.

"If we just let him have Poland he'll stop there and we can have peace". Sure it will.
 
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spat said:
If Russia will start WWIII over this, then they're going to start it sooner or later over something.

You sound like Neville Chamberlain.

"If we just let him have Poland he'll stop there and we can have peace". Sure it will.
Click to expand...

You sound like Adolph Hitler
 
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holdover said:
You sound like Adolph Hitler
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When exactly was Hitler condemning the invasion of sovereign territory again?

If Russia is justified in their invasion of Ukraine to create a buffer (as you seem to suggest), then certainly NATO would be justified in doing the same ?

You do not appease bullies, that just leads to more bullying.
 
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