Thinking about re-applying for Pistol Permit in Broome County

[pontiacmrc1]

So, back in 2005 I think it was, I had applied for my pistol permit in Broome County, and Judge Cawley denied it, based on 2 domestic incidents with my name on them, and I guess during our meeting, he said I said something he perceived to be 'volatile'....(I'm not sure what I had said for him to have perceived anything, and he didn't go into specifics of what I had said in the denial letter). Anyhow, in the letter it said I could re-apply in 3 years.....but I never did.

So, now what's happened is back in 2013, my ex wife, and my sister decided to file Order of Protection's on me. What sickened me about that was, they both lied on both their applications for the OP's, and at the time I was given a court appointed atty. Well, he wouldn't even listen to me, or hear what I had to say at the initial appointment. So, when the 2nd court date came, I met with him and he asked "What do you want to do with this?" and I said I wanted to prove they both lied, but I guess he didn't want to be bothered, so I ended up settling with 1 year OP's with both. The only thing he actually did for me was asked the court that they both be dismissed without merit, and he asked the judge not to take away my rifles and shotguns due to the fact I guess once there OP is expired, the court doesn't give a release so someone can have their firearms back, and it's a painful process to try to.

So, a year later, before both OP's were set to expire, both my ex wife and my sister petitioned the court to have both extended for 5 years, claiming they were 'afraid' of me. Keep in mind, during both 1 years, I never violated either one of them, and I had stayed away from both of them. Well, long story I hired a lawyer this time, and my ex wife and my sister both lost their cases, and they were never extended.

During all that, I was dating a woman, and I was also helping out 'friends' at the time. I was letting these 'friends' stay at my house, but after the dude kept beating his GF and his kids, I told them to get out, and I even went as far as calling CPS on them. Well, the 'friends' decided to try and 'get me back', and she had called the police and told them I was going to go to MY gf's house and shoot her with my shotgun one night, and they also went as far as going into my room of my house to try and find it and take it. They never found my shotgun, and I had it removed out of my house by the police, and I the night these 'friends' did this, I wasn't even home...I was out to dinner with my mother. Another thing that kinda blew my mind was, the police never questioned me about it, and my gf at the time ended up also filing an OP against me (from what she said, the police made her file it), but she requested it be dismissed on the day we had to go to court.

Ok, so now...it's been over a year since I finally told MY gf I was done after I found out she has a drug addiction problem, and found out her, her mom, and dad were selling pills behind my back while I was at work, and I will not tolerate that. For a period of time after I left (That was Easter Sunday in 2015 I left actually), she was constantly calling the police on me and telling them I was harassing her, as well as a couple times she called them and told them I tried breaking into her house, she told them one time I beat her and threw her out of my door of my house, which I did not do, and she would also call them constantly and tell them I was doing burnouts on her street....and it got to the point every time the police came to my house, they would just say they were there to talk to me, and they knew she wasn't very honest, but they had to come talk to me anyway.

I really don't like it how my ex's and my sister all cried wolf, and I ended up getting screwed over by all of this, and they get to lie about lot's of things and get away with it. I might add too, I was never charged criminally with anything with my ex's, or my sister.

So anyhow, it's been about a year where I have had no contact at all with police, and I've basically been laying low, keeping my nose clean, and I even met a woman who is really awesome and we get along great! in March of this year (2016), I went to Gander Mountain and bought a Winchester SXP 12ga, and it was approved thru the NICS background check after a delay, so I know after all of this, I can legally purchase a firearm from a dealer.

My question is, and I could prolly answer this myself, but would I stand a good chance of having my pistol permit denied again, because I'm sure all of this would come up during the background check...should I wait a while before I re-apply. I just don't see spending another $150 bucks to have it denied again....

Sorry it was so long, and thanks for reading. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[CountyCorrectionOfficer]

You posted this on the Canadian owned NYFirearms forum; my response to you was to consider moving across the border to Pennsylvania which is a "shall issue" state. You cited previous difficulties and involvements with a former GF with a drug addition problem. Very sad to see you were having problems with all these women. Sometimes after a person gets "burnt" several times with failed relationships--it is best to remain unattached to avoid future difficulties as the ones you have been experiencing.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Based on what you posted, with respect to reapplying for a NY CCW, I would say you are toast.

Well burnt toast actually.

 

[Bananabandit]

Warm, buttery toast!

 

[Magnus]

Not in this State. It sounds like you'll need a lawyer just to file and possibly have a chance.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Honestly, I don't see your chances of success being very good. I'd wait a few more years before applying again. 1 year isn't very long. 4 or 5 would be much better.

 

[brownclown]

I ain't a judge but just reading what you typed , just hearing "your version" there's no way you would be granted permission. Even if all are lies there are three people conspiring against you and not too long ago.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Criticalt]

If owning pistol is that important to you, ill tell you what I would do. It probably still would not work but......
If what you say is 100% true, id hire a lawyer and sue everyone that had "illegal" POs against you and for fileing false police reports and court fileings.
It would cost ALOT of money but Id make sure the lawyer knows you will NOT give up until justice is served. Dont make it about guns, make it about clearing your name. I would not want you working for me with that record. If ALL of it is untrue, your character has been defamed, you have a case.
Now proving this will be very, very, very difficult. You have to hope their lies dont hold up over these years and maybe they will dink themselves.
However, if ANY of their claims are true and proven true in court, the judge could find you guilty of several things.
After a bit of thought, id just enjoy my long guns and not worry about a lost cause, you will NEVER own a gun in NYS and probably 47 other states.
Whichever way you go, good luck.

 

[CountyCorrectionOfficer]

If owning pistol is that important to you, ill tell you what I would do. It probably still would not work but......
If what you say is 100% true, id hire a lawyer and sue everyone that had "illegal" POs against you and for fileing false police reports and court fileings.
It would cost ALOT of money but Id make sure the lawyer knows you will NOT give up until justice is served. Dont make it about guns, make it about clearing your name. I would not want you working for me with that record. If ALL of it is untrue, your character has been defamed, you have a case.
Now proving this will be very, very, very difficult. You have to hope their lies dont hold up over these years and maybe they will dink themselves.
However, if ANY of their claims are true and proven true in court, the judge could find you guilty of several things.
After a bit of thought, id just enjoy my long guns and not worry about a lost cause, you will NEVER own a gun in NYS and probably 47 other states.
Whichever way you go, good luck.

Not True; The OP has NEVER been convicted of any offense; anyone can accuse anybody of anything. He passed the NCIC brady check for long guns. If he moved out of NY to a "shall issue" state such as Pennsylvania, Vermont, down South or out West--he'll no doubt will qualify for a CCW permit. Heck, I heard of cases much worse then his being issued pistol licenses in New York. Each county, and licensing officers have different sets of criteria as to who will be issued a PL and restrictions added, if any. No consistency in NYS whatsoever!!

 

[Criticalt]

Heres NYS defamation of character definition.
Claims for Defamation in New York. Defamation is a false statement of fact against an individual's character or reputation, either intentionally or negligently published to a third person, holding the defamed person up to ridicule, contempt, hatred, shame, or disgrace.

I would not hire him and anyone truly so scary that multiple people get OPs agaist them I believe to be a disgrace.
Sorry OP, just saying.

He has to let the issuing judge know all of this, it asks if you have been denied and why. No judge in their right mind would give a permit to a person with THREE OPs against them AND threatening murder.
Nothing to do with convictions, this is about character and risk. This isnt just some crazy ex girlfriend, this is THREE women and a threat of murder with a shotgun. If all is untrue, you have to convince the judge that ALL involved are out to get you, which they may be, now prove it.

Again, no offence OP, this is all a "what if".

 

[Criticalt]

Even a shall isdue state will ask about a previous denial and the reason why. Again, character and risk.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Based on my own experiences, I am not entirely unsympathetic to Pontiac's situation. The real problem though, is the fact that this is a "may issue" rather than a "shall issue" state. And, with all of the crap going on as he detailed, no judge is likely to stick their neck out to give him a permit.

The reason I can relate, is because I endured some similar garbage as well. Like:

1. When I applied and the PPO told me I would be waiting about 12-18 months, I reminded them that they had 6 months under the law to get it done. They really didn't appreciate that. Then, I called them a few times to expedite the process over several months. They were unhappy about that. In frustration, I complained to their boss, the Erie County Clerk. Now, they were pissed off! So, when they sent my file to my local PD, they sent it all by itself, and asked the local PD to stick it to me.

2. My local PD Chief of Police was only too happy to oblige. And, unknown to me, my two sisters who were unhappy that my parents had put me in charge of their health care, finances, and estate wishes undertook a plan to try to get me arrested in order to disqualify me from being my parents Executor. They were filing false DI complaints with the local PD alleging that I had threatened their lives; had illegal weapons; and further made up false statements that I was "big and loud"; that they were "afraid of me": that they were afraid to even come to town because of me; claimed that I was mentally unstable; that I was abusing my parents mentally and physically; that I had been sent to court ordered anger management counseling, and so on. ALL OF WHICH WERE COMPLETELY UNTRUE! But in our fucked up system, even false accusations stay in the files!

Although I successfully refuted those accusations with my local PD, the Chief still recommended that I not be given a permit. Why? Because he felt that that "if I didn't respect the CCW permit process, and the 12-18 months it was taking them, that I did not deserve a permit"! Amazing, - I complained that THEY were breaking the law, and now I'm the ASSHOLE??? How do I know? Because afterwards, I FOI'D my entire file, and got a copy of his actual notes,... something I am certain he does not appreciate, because when I FOI'D his PD, he flat out refused to give me a different letter he wrote a year later, and that I got through other sources.

The added irony, is that at the very same time he was recommending against me because I had the nerve to complain about the PPO breaking the law by taking 12-18 months, - the civilian dispatchers in his PD wanted to get their CCW permits, and so they applied. And, guess what? The PPO told them that they would also be waiting 12-18 months. But, that did not sit very well with my local PD Chief of Police. Soooo..., they pressured the PPO to get their permits "expedited". Imagine that,- civilian dispatchers who sit behind heavy steel doors, concrete block walls, and bulletproof glass while surrounded by armed police officers need to have their permits "expedited", but when ordinary assholes like me want ours in a timely fashion as the law calls for, - we need to be denied!

3. But it gets even better than that. About a year later, my ex wife who is pressuring me for even more money, texts me that she wants to come to my home and talk about money. I texted her back and told her NOT TO COME TO MY HOME. She and her boyfriend / landlord / forensic accountant who has threatened me on multiple occasions (and even admitted it to the PD officers, - it's in their reports!), and who I have filed multiple DI complaints about, but that the police have failed to charge, shows up at my home anyway. My mistake was in going outside to talk to her at all. In hindsight, I should have called the PD and stayed indoors.

Longer story shortened here, but he starts screaming that I have a gun! I did, but it stayed concealed, and never mentioned or brandished in any manner whatsoever... We both called 911. Cops come, - take my gun; talk to everyone; give me my gun back and everyone goes home. The end of it? Apparently not. 6 months later my permit gets suspended out of the blue. I have not been arrested for anything; have no OOP's; and haven't been sent to the hospital either. So, why I wonder?

It turns out (I had to go to court AFTER I had to turn in my handguns) in order to find out that my local PD Chief wrote a letter 2 days after the incident at my home to the PPO demanding that my permit be REVOKED because he does not like "my attitude" BECAUSE I had the audacity to "use profanity" when I ordered her boyfriend to stay off of my property, AND because I had my legal handgun AND AMMUNITION with me!!! Wow! I use the art of situationally appropriate verbal expression (SAVE!) to persuade a threatening SOB to get back in his car instead of coming onto my property and further threatening me, without the need to draw or even mention my legal handgun, and the PD Chief blames me for that? WTF?

I also found out later that it was a senior detective with my local PD who broke the law and disclosed the existence of my permit to my ex wife (and the boyfriend) 1 week before they both showed up at my home when told not to. So, I think that if the detective had not disclosed (unlawfully) the existence of my permit, that entire incident might never have happened!

The Judge reinstated my permit 1 day after the hearing, but Wil Fowler of the PPO buried my file for almost two months, and refused to acknowledge receipt of the court order reinstating my permit, and returning my permit card along with his BS "reinstatement letter" to me. Once again, I had to go over his head to get satisfaction. And even then, my local PD delayed me for weeks from getting my property returned to me, and only relented when I threatened to hire a lawyer to sue them for the return of my handguns.

So, yes, things can cause us problems, and some of them may be our own fault, and some may not. I am not judging Pontiac one way or the other. I am just pointing out that shit can come up and bite us here in New Yorkistan because we are a "may issue" state. And given the amount of problems he detailed in his post (in particular, the multiple OOP's) I think he is up against it, - maybe not forever, but very likely in the near term anyway.

 

[CountyCorrectionOfficer]

Even a shall isdue state will ask about a previous denial and the reason why. Again, character and risk.

Not necessarily; The OP can move to PA and get a resident PL there. The PA standard application for CCW does neither ask about previous PL application denials nor about "Orders of Protection". An acquiescence of mine who worked for the MTA was denied PL in Dutchess County. When he retired he moved down to Georgia; applied and was granted a CCW permit there.

http://www.bedfordcountypa.org/uploads/Application_for_a_License_to_Carry_Firearms.pdf

And the State of Vermont does NOT have any type of pistol licensing system in place to either possess or carry a handgun.

 

[CountyCorrectionOfficer]

Even a shall isdue state will ask about a previous denial and the reason why. Again, character and risk.

Character and risk is in the eyes of the beholder; everyone at some point in time has a controversial issue in their backgrounds--just look at this election cycle's Presidential race for example. Its all about "politics"; who you are and who you know.......

 

[Saltwater60]

I would say no judge would sign off on a pistol permit with dv issues and the order of protection no way no how would I waiste my time or money. You could try I have been wrong before, but I would think it's a no go. Sorry.

 

[CountyCorrectionOfficer]

Based on my own experiences, I am not entirely unsympathetic to Pontiac's situation. The real problem though, is the fact that this is a "may issue" rather than a "shall issue" state. And, with all of the crap going on as he detailed, no judge is likely to stick their neck out to give him a permit.

The reason I can relate, is because I endured some similar garbage as well. Like:

1. When I applied and the PPO told me I would be waiting about 12-18 months, I reminded them that they had 6 months under the law to get it done. They really didn't appreciate that. Then, I called them a few times to expedite the process over several months. They were unhappy about that. In frustration, I complained to their boss, the Erie County Clerk. Now, they were pissed off! So, when they sent my file to my local PD, they sent it all by itself, and asked the local PD to stick it to me.

2. My local PD Chief of Police was only too happy to oblige. And, unknown to me, my two sisters who were unhappy that my parents had put me in charge of their health care, finances, and estate wishes undertook a plan to try to get me arrested in order to disqualify me from being my parents Executor. They were filing false DI complaints with the local PD alleging that I had threatened their lives; had illegal weapons; and further made up false statements that I was "big and loud"; that they were "afraid of me": that they were afraid to even come to town because of me; claimed that I was mentally unstable; that I was abusing my parents mentally and physically; that I had been sent to court ordered anger management counseling, and so on. ALL OF WHICH WERE COMPLETELY UNTRUE! But in our fucked up system, even false accusations stay in the files!

Although I successfully refuted those accusations with my local PD, the Chief still recommended that I not be given a permit. Why? Because he felt that that "if I didn't respect the CCW permit process, and the 12-18 months it was taking them, that I did not deserve a permit"! Amazing, - I complained that THEY were breaking the law, and now I'm the ASSHOLE??? How do I know? Because afterwards, I FOI'D my entire file, and got a copy of his actual notes,... something I am certain he does not appreciate, because when I FOI'D his PD, he flat out refused to give me a different letter he wrote a year later, and that I got through other sources.

The added irony, is that at the very same time he was recommending against me because I had the nerve to complain about the PPO breaking the law by taking 12-18 months, - the civilian dispatchers in his PD wanted to get their CCW permits, and so they applied. And, guess what? The PPO told them that they would also be waiting 12-18 months. But, that did not sit very well with my local PD Chief of Police. Soooo..., they pressured the PPO to get their permits "expedited". Imagine that,- civilian dispatchers who sit behind heavy steel doors, concrete block walls, and bulletproof glass while surrounded by armed police officers need to have their permits "expedited", but when ordinary assholes like me want ours in a timely fashion as the law calls for, - we need to be denied!

3. But it gets even better than that. About a year later, my ex wife who is pressuring me for even more money, texts me that she wants to come to my home and talk about money. I texted her back and told her NOT TO COME TO MY HOME. She and her boyfriend / landlord / forensic accountant who has threatened me on multiple occasions (and even admitted it to the PD officers, - it's in their reports!), and who I have filed multiple DI complaints about, but that the police have failed to charge, shows up at my home anyway. My mistake was in going outside to talk to her at all. In hindsight, I should have called the PD and stayed indoors.

Longer story shortened here, but he starts screaming that I have a gun! I did, but it stayed concealed, and never mentioned or brandished in any manner whatsoever... We both called 911. Cops come, - take my gun; talk to everyone; give me my gun back and everyone goes home. The end of it? Apparently not. 6 months later my permit gets suspended out of the blue. I have not been arrested for anything; have no OOP's; and haven't been sent to the hospital either. So, why I wonder?

It turns out (I had to go to court AFTER I had to turn in my handguns) in order to find out that my local PD Chief wrote a letter 2 days after the incident at my home to the PPO demanding that my permit be REVOKED because he does not like "my attitude" BECAUSE I had the audacity to "use profanity" when I ordered her boyfriend to stay off of my property, AND because I had my legal handgun AND AMMUNITION with me!!! Wow! I use the art of situationally appropriate verbal persuasion to persuade a threatening SOB to get back in his car instead of coming onto my property and further threatening me, without the need to draw or even mention my legal handgun, and the PD Chief blames me for that? WTF?

I also found out later that it was a senior detective with my local PD who broke the law and disclosed the existence of my permit to my ex wife (and the boyfriend) 1 week before they both showed up at my home when told not to. So, I think that if the detective had not disclosed (unlawfully) the existence of my permit, that entire incident might never have happened!

The Judge reinstated my permit 1 day after the hearing, but Wil Fowler of the PPO buried my file for almost two months, and refused to acknowledge receipt of the court order reinstating my permit, and returning my permit card along with his BS "reinstatement letter" to me. Once again, I had to go over his head to get satisfaction. And even then, my local PD delayed me for weeks from getting my property returned to me, and only relented when I threatened to hire a lawyer to sue them for the return of my handguns.

So, yes, things can cause us problems, and some of them may be our own fault, and some may not. I am not judging Pontiac one way or the other. I am just pointing out that shit can come up and bite us here in New Yorkistan because we are a "may issue" state. And given the amount of problems he detailed in his post (in particular, the multiple OOP's) I think he is up against it, - maybe not forever, but very likely in the near term anyway.

Again, its up to the OP what he wants to do if he wants to possess a pistol. Moving out of NYS to a 'shall issue' state might be his best alternative.

 

[pontiacmrc1]

Heres NYS defamation of character definition.
Claims for Defamation in New York. Defamation is a false statement of fact against an individual's character or reputation, either intentionally or negligently published to a third person, holding the defamed person up to ridicule, contempt, hatred, shame, or disgrace.

I would not hire him and anyone truly so scary that multiple people get OPs agaist them I believe to be a disgrace.
Sorry OP, just saying.

He has to let the issuing judge know all of this, it asks if you have been denied and why. No judge in their right mind would give a permit to a person with THREE OPs against them AND threatening murder.
Nothing to do with convictions, this is about character and risk. This isnt just some crazy ex girlfriend, this is THREE women and a threat of murder with a shotgun. If all is untrue, you have to convince the judge that ALL involved are out to get you, which they may be, now prove it.

Again, no offence OP, this is all a "what if".

The whole part about the shotgun thing was, there were friends of mine staying here, and it wasn't an ex that called to say that, it was the 'friends' who called the JC police and said I was going to go over and shoot her. And I know it's been a couple years since that all went down, but I could prove I wasn't even home that night....I was out with my mom eating dinner.

But I do believe all of you are right. Unless somehow the pistol permit system in NY changes, my gf and I have a 4 year plan to move to SC...I might just have to wait another 4 years, and move to get a pistol.

 

[Criticalt]

The whole part about the shotgun thing was, there were friends of mine staying here, and it wasn't an ex that called to say that, it was the 'friends' who called the JC police and said I was going to go over and shoot her. And I know it's been a couple years since that all went down, but I could prove I wasn't even home that night....I was out with my mom eating dinner.

But I do believe all of you are right. Unless somehow the pistol permit system in NY changes, my gf and I have a 4 year plan to move to SC...I might just have to wait another 4 years, and move to get a pistol.

Seriously I meant no offence, I know people who have had these same kind ofissues with people lying on them.
Also, I had a DUI when I was 18 and was convicted!!
I got my unrestricted permit but not for 25 years after my arrest. I was still so worried I wss gonna be denied. The sheriff laughed at me and told me id be fine, he was approving me for unrestricted.

I would hire you to work for me, I was just making a point about your character being defamed.

 

[pontiacmrc1]

Seriously I meant no offence, I know people who have had these same kind ofissues with people lying on them.
Also, I had a DUI when I was 18 and was convicted!!
I got my unrestricted permit but not for 25 years after my arrest. I was still so worried I wss gonna be denied. The sheriff laughed at me and told me id be fine, he was approving me for unrestricted.

I would hire you to work for me, I was just making a point about your character being defamed.

Actually, now that you mentioned that DUI, my permit was denied after 2010, because I also had a DWI conviction...but the judge just asked me to explain that, but never used that as a reason in his denial letter....

Yeah, people suck. I got your point tho.

 

[Dr. Evil]

1. I've lead a very boring life (fortunately).
2. I hope things work out for you.
3. Don't forget to poop.

 

[4excal]

You cited previous difficulties and involvements with a former GF with a drug addition problem. Very sad to see you were having problems with all these women. Sometimes after a person gets "burnt" several times with failed relationships--it is best to remain unattached to avoid future difficulties as the ones you have been experiencing.

Or a good long gander in the mirror...