To Laser or not to laser

[ebuzz]

I'm waiting to take possession of a 9mm Springfield XDS 3.3 and was thinking about the practical use of lasers and or lights. Now, I'm a complete gadget freak and love to tweak and upgrade things, but I'm curious about just how useful and or practical a laser/light would be on an EDC weapon.
Sure it would be fun at the range, etc., but is it really useful for everyday use? I would think not. The chances that any one of us will have to use our weapons for self defense is, thankfully, low, never mind a low light situation. In an adrenaline packed seff-D situation, what the hell good will a laser do?
Are these things just nice gimmicks/toys to play around with or are they of any real practical use?
I have no problem getting one to play around with, but don't want to invest in a holster to accommodate a laser for no good reason.

 

[Snappo]

I'm waiting to take possession of a 9mm Springfield XDS 3.3 and was thinking about the practical use of lasers and or lights. Now, I'm a complete gadget freak and love to tweak and upgrade things, but I'm curious about just how useful and or practical a laser/light would be on an EDC weapon.
Sure it would be fun at the range, etc., but is it really useful for everyday use? I would think not. The chances that any one of us will have to use our weapons for self defense is, thankfully, low, never mind a low light situation. In an adrenaline packed seff-D situation, what the hell good will a laser do?
Are these things just nice gimmicks/toys to play around with or are they of any real practical use?
I have no problem getting one to play around with, but don't want to invest in a holster to accommodate a laser for no good reason.

My experience was they were worth exactly shit. For a few reasons. I went with a red dot laser on an M&P 40.
1) You had to turn the stupid thing on. Ain't got not time for that shit!
2) If the battery goes dead you move to the original sights. But you have been practicing for 10 years with a stupid laser (which is now inop) and you look at the regular sights but since this all went bad during an SHTF, you are officially dead.
3) Red lasers are as useless as tits on a bull in daylight. But they are a zillion times cheaper than green lasers. Nothing worse than having to hold your hand in front of the dot and say "is this thing fucking working?". Or you do the nice $200 green laser instead of the cheap $20 red laser; but now you go through batteries like a kid goes through his Halloween candy.

 

[Robin]

I have never used one, but it seems like anything, there are +'s and -'s, but it seems that some intense and thoughtful practice with one would help establish a good muscle memory for a point and shoot scenario.
Robin

 

[Snappo]

I have never used one, but it seems like anything, there are +'s and -'s, but it seems that some intense and thoughtful practice with one would help establish a good muscle memory for a point and shoot scenario.
Robin

The exact opposite. It becomes a crutch and then when the real SHTF happens your brain can't remember how to use 2 sights. Lasers are Da Debil. The dumbing down of 2A! LOL Admittedly though, I coughed up the money for a green dot from Wheeler to sight in at 100 yards. ;-) Yeah, yeah, I know. I cheated. But it saves rounds sometimes versus doing it old school to get on paper. And if you are dialing in a 338 Lapua, a 338 WinMag, etc. saving 10 rounds is like saving $40.

 

[Podmonkey]

I think theybare useful. I imagine that lining up a laser dot on a target is faster and easier then alligning the sights. And since in a defensive shooting we frequently don't even use the sights, that dotbis even more useful. I want to put a laser light combo on the PPQ myself, though I admit that it would mostly be to live out my Metal Gear Solid fantasies. Sue me.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My experience with lasers on handguns is they actually make it harder to shoot.

My first handgun was a 1911. I got brand new Crimson Trace laser grips. What I found was that when pointing the handgun at the target, my focus was on stopping the laser from shaking and moving. My groups sucked and it slowed me down.

After removing the laser and upgrading my sights, my groups improved.

As others have said here, they require batteries and are prone to failure. You'll hardly ever see a professional with these lasers on handguns whether they are law enforcement officers, military, or IDPA champions.

 

[Podmonkey]

Thats a training issue though. Shouldn't be any different than refular sights, cover your intended POI wit the DOT and squeeze the trigger. Over aiming is over aiming.

 

[Steal2B]

Although I have next to no first hand experience I have heard feedback from very experienced law enforcement (US Marshall Services) and military (Special ops types) that identified some specific circumstances where laser sighting was invaluable. They identified multiple cases where lasers enabled accurate shots from compromised combative positions where the weapon sights could not safely be aligned to their face. Made sense to me. The other times involved total darkness combat with non visible lasers. I have heard amateurs praise green laser performance in low light and dark training exercises but the training was specifically developed for laser use and placed trainees in unorthodox positions. So far I believe lasers are a good tool for some specific situations but for me they ideally should not replace good sights or good training.

 

[Phauxtoe]

I Hate Lasers, too much distracting movement!

 

[Marlinspike]

There are NUMEROUS studies that suggest the laser actually SLOWS target engagement because the shooter is spending time looking for/ at or aligning the laser rather than the threat. the laser becomes the focus of the shooters eye vs being on the threat.

You don't have to take my word for it. There are plenty of "famous" trainers with data/ vids addressing it. Google is your friend on that topic.

Also... the money you spend on a laser could be better spent on training/ ammo for training.

Lasers require specialty accessories (holsters etc) and batteries. I get it, so do lights, but a laser is a single purpose device. Whereas a light does more than just illuminate a threat.

Buy the best sights you can afford and a good weapon mounted light and never look back.

Laser= wasted money relative to the pay off.

Personal experience has been that people who have come to my programs (especially less experienced shooters) have struggled in exactly the same way as I mentioned in the above studies.

Also on a personal note.....Yeah I wasted some cash (quite a bit actually) on one once.... I sold it. I don't miss it.

 

[Robin]

Snappo, you know nothing about training and training techniques.
Robin

 

[Bananabandit]

Ive tried it, but not for me. More of a distraction.

 

[ebuzz]

All good comments, thanks. But Viridian has a nice green laser that turns on as soon as you draw it from the holster (special holsters are available).

 

[71velle]

I have a crimson trace on a j frame and think its great!!!

 

[Mr. terzmo]

I think a laser,in a combative situation,may cause distraction by looking for where the laser is pointing rather than pointing and shoot.

 

[Catskillkid]

My experience was they were worth exactly shit. For a few reasons. I went with a red dot laser on an M&P 40.
1) You had to turn the stupid thing on. Ain't got not time for that shit!
2) If the battery goes dead you move to the original sights. But you have been practicing for 10 years with a stupid laser (which is now inop) and you look at the regular sights but since this all went bad during an SHTF, you are officially dead.
3) Red lasers are as useless as tits on a bull in daylight. But they are a zillion times cheaper than green lasers. Nothing worse than having to hold your hand in front of the dot and say "is this thing fucking working?". Or you do the nice $200 green laser instead of the cheap $20 red laser; but now you go through batteries like a kid goes through his Halloween candy.

And here I was thinking I was the only one who did that exact same thing!

Yeah, agree 100%. Got a red dot laser that I've transferred back and forth between a few of my guns with rails and honestly it's pretty much useless unless it's a night time/dark environment situation. I've come to the conclusion that I'll either stick with the iron sights. May upgrade them but won't be worrying much about lasers.

Lights would be more useful in my opinion. At least you can see what you're shooting at.

 

[HIghlander]

If using a laser in dark areas or at night, any dust or particles in the air will reflect light and will give away your position or at least your perceived direction/ location. You would loose you advantage of first shot surprise.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Although I have next to no first hand experience I have heard feedback from very experienced law enforcement (US Marshall Services) and military (Special ops types) that identified some specific circumstances where laser sighting was invaluable. They identified multiple cases where lasers enabled accurate shots from compromised combative positions where the weapon sights could not safely be aligned to their face. Made sense to me. The other times involved total darkness combat with non visible lasers. I have heard amateurs praise green laser performance in low light and dark training exercises but the training was specifically developed for laser use and placed trainees in unorthodox positions. So far I believe lasers are a good tool for some specific situations but for me they ideally should not replace good sights or good training.

An IR laser that the military uses is totally different than a red or green visible laser. With the IR laser and NVG"s you see a never ending beam that you cannot lose. With a regular green or red laser with the naked eye, you only see the the end of the laser that is hitting something. Often times you have to look for it. You are looking for a dot vs a beam.

 

[GOPerfect]

They have a place. Just like every other thing that can be bought and put on a gun.

I own a couple of different lasers, some cheap, some not so cheap. Like every tool and gadget that can be placed on a firearm, there are positives as well as negatives.

Lasers can help a new shooter proper alignment and sighting. Everyone, everyone looks down sights differently. They can aid in proper sighting.

Lasers can show a shooter how much movement he has while while aiming. They can also assist in point and shoot techniques.

My advice, use them as an aid, not a replacement of your sights.

 

[71velle]

I always find the laser discussions funny. I think many put their 2 cents in never owning a laser.

They allow you to keep your eyes on he threat not the sights.
The dot can be acquired faster than sights. Maybe not the first time you have one in the hand.
If you are using a handgun its because you life is in danger, your position is likely known. If hiding simply lift finger off activation button.
NO LASSER REQUIRES YOU TO TAKE OFF YOUR SIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!

My advise would be to get a laser from crimson trace, turns on when the pistol is griped and off when not griped. Practice with it unloaded, pull from holster at point at target. You will gain valuable skills of pulling and getting on target, the dot will tell you hoe you are doing. Just think of how much practice you can get without going to the range and the ammo savings. Dry fire practice will show you if your moving while pulling the trigger. Lastly, if you are serious about being trained and prepared studies show it takes 3000 to 5000 reps to develop muscle memory.

Lastly, if you dont feel the laser is for you on your defensive gun, its still a training aid that will hone your skills in ways that cant be done without one.

 

[Rocpo]

I always find the laser discussions funny. I think many put their 2 cents in never owning a laser.

They allow you to keep your eyes on he threat not the sights.
The dot can be acquired faster than sights. Maybe not the first time you have one in the hand.
If you are using a handgun its because you life is in danger, your position is likely known. If hiding simply lift finger off activation button.
NO LASSER REQUIRES YOU TO TAKE OFF YOUR SIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!

My advise would be to get a laser from crimson trace, turns on when the pistol is griped and off when not griped. Practice with it unloaded, pull from holster at point at target. You will gain valuable skills of pulling and getting on target, the dot will tell you hoe you are doing. Just think of how much practice you can get without going to the range and the ammo savings. Dry fire practice will show you if your moving while pulling the trigger. Lastly, if you are serious about being trained and prepared studies show it takes 3000 to 5000 reps to develop muscle memory.

Lastly, if you dont feel the laser is for you on your defensive gun, its still a training aid that will hone your skills in ways that cant be done without one.

If you're looking for a training aid a laser is a waste of cash.

Nextleveltraining.com has Glock and M&P laser trainers that serve as a much better training aid.

 

[71velle]

If you're looking for a training aid a laser is a waste of cash.

Nextleveltraining.com has Glock and M&P laser trainers that serve as a much better training aid.

Those trainers are pretty cool, but not making a laser a waste at all. The SIRT pistol is still a laser feedback system with an advantage of not having to cock the pistol after each shot. But, if you dont have a glock 17 or full size M&P you would not be training with what you actually carry. Also it would require the purchase of additional holsters that one would not actually use for carry, and will not provide the same drawing practice either. The cost of the SIRT pistols are over $200 plus the cost of holsters. I dont see training with a glock 17 is that useful for one that carries a XDS like OP.