Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Gun-Grabbing Memes for the Tacticool Scene
USCCA confirmed as bootlicker scum. Spread the word
U.S. LawShield, on the other hand, will defend their clients in Red Flag hearings.
USCCA And Red Flag Laws
- Thread starter Dr. Evil
- Start date
Gun-Grabbing Memes for the Tacticool Scene
USCCA confirmed as bootlicker scum. Spread the word
U.S. LawShield, on the other hand, will defend their clients in Red Flag hearings.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Apparently after a whole bunch of customers dropped them after asking questions and getting the same response, the ceo posted a different tune:
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Holy crap. For a moment I thought they were going to go the way of Benchmade there for a second. Obviously, the deluge of angry customers changed his mind.
But he left them with an out,...they will cover you in an "unfounded" accusation situation. Yeah, - go ahead and pay them, and wait for them to say "Sorry, but we decline to cover you in this particular circumstance..."
No thanks, I'd pass on coverage from them.
No thanks, I'd pass on coverage from them.
I will give the CEO some credit. I left a comment and instead of like many people who just got a copy paste response from the USCCA page, I got an actual response from the CEO.
Do I believe what he is saying, no I still believe its mostly damage control and like I responded was I will be keeping an eye on how they conduct themselves from this point on ...
But there are other true 2A companies that do the same services as USCCA but better
Do I believe what he is saying, no I still believe its mostly damage control and like I responded was I will be keeping an eye on how they conduct themselves from this point on ...
But there are other true 2A companies that do the same services as USCCA but better
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
USCCA fails to understand that ANYONE can initiate a Red Flag. Even if you piss off someone on Facebook, that could trigger a snowflake into calling in a ERPO.
A lot of people think that there HAS TO BE some "evidence" that you are a danger to yourself or others, I disagree, I STRONGLY disagree. I believe anyone or their grandmother could call in a ERPO on anyone, kind of like anonymous Swatting.
diversify your firearms, move most of them to a friends or families home. Spred them out. I moved a couple out of state. This way, Emperor Cuomo can't take all your guns. Besides, once an ERPO goes through, you'll never be able to buy another gun as long as you live. You will go into the NICS system and never be removed, guaranteed
A lot of people think that there HAS TO BE some "evidence" that you are a danger to yourself or others, I disagree, I STRONGLY disagree. I believe anyone or their grandmother could call in a ERPO on anyone, kind of like anonymous Swatting.
diversify your firearms, move most of them to a friends or families home. Spred them out. I moved a couple out of state. This way, Emperor Cuomo can't take all your guns. Besides, once an ERPO goes through, you'll never be able to buy another gun as long as you live. You will go into the NICS system and never be removed, guaranteed
@thewheels
.308 Win
I understand the logic behind this and I've already considered it but there's still issues with this approach.
I'm trying to determine what happens to the firearms owned by another in the family when they come for your firearms?
Does anyone think LE is going to discern between your kid's shotgun and yours? Or your wife's target rifle and yours? I don't give a shit what's/who's in the warrant, they're going to clean house and empty safes and let the courts sort it out.
What happens when your offsite friend/family member gets served and your guns are in their safe? Your guns will go just as theirs does and then you have a super special shitshow because they'll tack on unsafe charges over the "illegal transfer" horsedickery.
To be completely sure, boating accidents are the only guarantee that your firearms don't end up outside of your possession.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
Im sure I will have to red flag my neighbor if his dog continues to chase my ducks and crap on my lawn. I see that as an act of aggression. he must be stopped!!!!
LOL would that be unfounded?! thats a little "loose" as far as i can see.
LOL would that be unfounded?! thats a little "loose" as far as i can see.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
what are the chances all your friends will be hit with ERPO? pretty slim, I would think.
@thewheels
.308 Win
Sure, but what's the lesser of the two evils if only one family member or friend gets hit? Dealing with the ERPO or the "illegal transfer" shit?
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
It's written into NYS law that they have to take everything they see when serving an ERPO. It's also stated that the courts can authorize a search, which they're all but certain to do as a CYA measure. According to the actual text of the statute you must demonstrate lawful ownership if you wish to get back guns that were taken under someone else's ERPO. YOU, not the state, has the burden of proof according to the letter of the law (of course this is blatantly unconstitutional but that's just how NY rolls). I suspect very few of us have receipts for all our guns and even so, how would you legally ascertain ownership between members of a household? For instance, my wife and I use a joint CC account for the vast majority of our purchases and all our handguns are cross-registered. As a practical matter, I suspect entire households will routinely be deprived of their Second Amendment rights and lawfully owned property with very little due process for the target of the ERPO and zero due process for the other members of the household.
They're also mandated to return all the guns after the ERPO or Temporary ERPO expires. I'm sure some jurisdictions will be very good about this, some will need to get sued before they give guns back and maybe one or two will make proceedings drag on past the two year threshold, claim they are "nuisance" weapons and destroy them as directed under 400.05.
@thewheels
.308 Win
As I suspected and it's all bullshit.
The red flag law will violate the rights of every member of a household that owns a firearm. It's not limited to the person that was named.
Boating accidents and PVC purchases will be on the rise.
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Sorry trust is broken and will probably never be fixed. Not many are willing to bet their lives.
ERPO's scare the shit out of me, because I've basically endured the same shit back in NY, during pre ERPO law days. If you think ERPO's can't happen to you, I say, watch out. All it takes is somebody with a grudge, and BOOM! The worst part is, that there is no mechanism in these laws to discourage people from filing an utterly false accusation. They can make up any BS accusation they want without ANY consequences, while we get put through the grinder emotionally, physically, and monetarily with our rights completely ignored.
In my case, I was SWAT'd by one sister when I was my parent's POA. She called 911 and claimed I was threatening her at gunpoint with unlicensed handguns (over my parent's money) when I didn't even OWN any handguns! Then she hurriedly hung up on 911. And of course the cops came hauling ass over in two cars; interviewed me; AND, of course they filed a domestic incident report with me as the subject! And they did nothing to her even when I asked them to charge her with filing a false police report. She has even gone on to file multiple other false reports with the police, which I did not find out about until much, much later.
Around the same time, my other sister (who was also upset over my having my parent's POA, and being the named Executor in their Wills), wrote me to say that she was unhappy that she thought I owned a shotgun (OMFG!). In hindsight I should have ignored her, but I wrote her back and told her that the only way I might ever use one (IF I even owned one, which I did not admit to) would be to use one LEGALLY to shoot trap, or to defend myself if someone ever were to break into my home in the middle of the night. And what did she do? She wrote to the police to claim that I had threatened her life with that statement! (WTF?) And of course, the police investigated that, and filed ANOTHER DI report with me as the subject!
A year or so later, I applied for, and later received my Unrestricted NY permit, at the same time as my 3 year divorce battle ended. When I applied for it, and was told that they would be taking 12-18 months to process it, I had the nerve as a dumb non handgun owning taxpayer to remind them that they had 6 months under the law, which only pissed them off. My local police chief (who has since been forcibly retired for mysterious reasons), took the note from the PPD that complained about my taking them to task for not following the law (they wrote that, alleging that because I was "pressuring" them to grant my permit in less than 18 months, that I must be intending to kill someone, and asked him to do an extra thorough investigation of me). He decided that "if I didn't respect the "process" enough to wait 18 months, then I would likely not follow the law if I was granted a permit; therefore he recommended against me being granted one! (I do have a hard time following his twisted logic. They are the ones actually breaking the law by taking longer than 6 months, BUT,... because I complained to them that they are actually breaking the law, that I am the one who is likely to break the law?...I mean, seriously, WTF).
But the best example of shit going sideways, is what happened to me about 1 year after I got my permit.
My ex got wind from my kids (who I had full custody of, after battling her for 3 years) that I might have gotten a permit, so she called the local PD to ask them if I did. And, their Detective Lt. then broke the law by disclosing to her "that yes I did, and that the local police chief was not happy about it!" (What an asswipe, - see above.) Two days later she showed up at my home (after being informed in writing NOT to come there by me). And she showed up with her boyfriend, who I have documented police reports of him threatening my life (the dipshit actually admitted it to the cops). A verbal greeting ensued, and when he started to get out of his vehicle and advance toward me as I stood on my own property, I told him to back the fuck up and stay in his vehicle. And, of course, the cops were called by both parties. As I got through 2nd, she was the complainant, and I was the respondent. The cops came; temporarily disarmed me; sent them on their way, and returned my gun to me as no laws had been broken (I had not drawn on him, and I had not even admitted that I had a gun in my pocket at the time).
But the real fun was about to begin. The local PD Chief wrote to the PPD demanding that my permit be revoked BECAUSE: I had the audacity to use profanity to stop a man from coming on to my property (without informing them that he had made documented threats on my life), AND, BECAUSE I also had the nerve to carry ammunition for my gun!!! My permit was suspended, and I had to turn in my handguns; hire a lawyer; and go to court. While the judge immediately reinstated my permit after I testified, it still took months to get my actual permit back from the PPD, and to later get my guns back from the local PD as they fucked with me a bit more. The judge agreed with me that I had acted appropriately , and that it was better to send the boyfriend packing by using profanity rather than shooting his dumb ass, and that having a gun without ammunition is basically worthless.
I use the above examples to show how easily certain assholes can, and will very likely screw with lawful gun owners over mere disagreements by lodging false accusations. One sided ERPO's are damn dangerous. Period.
In my case, I was SWAT'd by one sister when I was my parent's POA. She called 911 and claimed I was threatening her at gunpoint with unlicensed handguns (over my parent's money) when I didn't even OWN any handguns! Then she hurriedly hung up on 911. And of course the cops came hauling ass over in two cars; interviewed me; AND, of course they filed a domestic incident report with me as the subject! And they did nothing to her even when I asked them to charge her with filing a false police report. She has even gone on to file multiple other false reports with the police, which I did not find out about until much, much later.
Around the same time, my other sister (who was also upset over my having my parent's POA, and being the named Executor in their Wills), wrote me to say that she was unhappy that she thought I owned a shotgun (OMFG!). In hindsight I should have ignored her, but I wrote her back and told her that the only way I might ever use one (IF I even owned one, which I did not admit to) would be to use one LEGALLY to shoot trap, or to defend myself if someone ever were to break into my home in the middle of the night. And what did she do? She wrote to the police to claim that I had threatened her life with that statement! (WTF?) And of course, the police investigated that, and filed ANOTHER DI report with me as the subject!
A year or so later, I applied for, and later received my Unrestricted NY permit, at the same time as my 3 year divorce battle ended. When I applied for it, and was told that they would be taking 12-18 months to process it, I had the nerve as a dumb non handgun owning taxpayer to remind them that they had 6 months under the law, which only pissed them off. My local police chief (who has since been forcibly retired for mysterious reasons), took the note from the PPD that complained about my taking them to task for not following the law (they wrote that, alleging that because I was "pressuring" them to grant my permit in less than 18 months, that I must be intending to kill someone, and asked him to do an extra thorough investigation of me). He decided that "if I didn't respect the "process" enough to wait 18 months, then I would likely not follow the law if I was granted a permit; therefore he recommended against me being granted one! (I do have a hard time following his twisted logic. They are the ones actually breaking the law by taking longer than 6 months, BUT,... because I complained to them that they are actually breaking the law, that I am the one who is likely to break the law?...I mean, seriously, WTF).
But the best example of shit going sideways, is what happened to me about 1 year after I got my permit.
My ex got wind from my kids (who I had full custody of, after battling her for 3 years) that I might have gotten a permit, so she called the local PD to ask them if I did. And, their Detective Lt. then broke the law by disclosing to her "that yes I did, and that the local police chief was not happy about it!" (What an asswipe, - see above.) Two days later she showed up at my home (after being informed in writing NOT to come there by me). And she showed up with her boyfriend, who I have documented police reports of him threatening my life (the dipshit actually admitted it to the cops). A verbal greeting ensued, and when he started to get out of his vehicle and advance toward me as I stood on my own property, I told him to back the fuck up and stay in his vehicle. And, of course, the cops were called by both parties. As I got through 2nd, she was the complainant, and I was the respondent. The cops came; temporarily disarmed me; sent them on their way, and returned my gun to me as no laws had been broken (I had not drawn on him, and I had not even admitted that I had a gun in my pocket at the time).
But the real fun was about to begin. The local PD Chief wrote to the PPD demanding that my permit be revoked BECAUSE: I had the audacity to use profanity to stop a man from coming on to my property (without informing them that he had made documented threats on my life), AND, BECAUSE I also had the nerve to carry ammunition for my gun!!! My permit was suspended, and I had to turn in my handguns; hire a lawyer; and go to court. While the judge immediately reinstated my permit after I testified, it still took months to get my actual permit back from the PPD, and to later get my guns back from the local PD as they fucked with me a bit more. The judge agreed with me that I had acted appropriately , and that it was better to send the boyfriend packing by using profanity rather than shooting his dumb ass, and that having a gun without ammunition is basically worthless.
I use the above examples to show how easily certain assholes can, and will very likely screw with lawful gun owners over mere disagreements by lodging false accusations. One sided ERPO's are damn dangerous. Period.
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Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
There is no element, inclusion or provision in the Membership Agreement to support legal fees for members responding to red flag protective orders and customer service indicated modifications to reflect recent comments are not scheduled. Until it happens, we probably should not assume ... one way or the other.
Disclaimer: I did not get a USCCA policy based on responses provided to NYS Dept of Financial Services by Empire Underwriters (underwriting parent of United Specialty Insurance Company) distancing themselves from carry insurance underwriters Chubb, Lockton, Lloyds of London, etc following FUAC's recent "murder insurance" fiasco.
Disclaimer: I did not get a USCCA policy based on responses provided to NYS Dept of Financial Services by Empire Underwriters (underwriting parent of United Specialty Insurance Company) distancing themselves from carry insurance underwriters Chubb, Lockton, Lloyds of London, etc following FUAC's recent "murder insurance" fiasco.
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kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I'm not ready to write of an otherwise well respected organization based on what might just be a social media lackey improperly stating their own opinion before they investigated the company's official opinion.
This will get some attention over the next week or two. If there are any discrepancies or backpedaling, it will come out.
This will get some attention over the next week or two. If there are any discrepancies or backpedaling, it will come out.
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
You can't get USCCA coverage in NY anyway.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
Yeah those cowards dropped me for coverage as well. Turned tail and ran rather then spending the time to appeal and fight the "decree" by Cuomo.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
This is why I dropped off a lot of social media -- or the places I use at all, I never talk about anything controversial on.
We're closer and closer to 1984.
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
They are still fighting it. But how much $$ do you think any group can afford to spend against the Emperor?
The NRA caused this and NY responded because the NRA (and subsequently the others) did not have legal permission to sell "insurance" in this state. So abide by the original rules or GTFO.
That's all I got. They all broke the law to start with.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah, well fuck NY anyway. It's not like NY hasn't broken the law ever. But while I'm at it, fuck the NRA and NY both right in the goat ass. The two deserve each other.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
just call DEC and them talk to the neighbor .. they came to my parents then went to the neighbor .. your dog will be shot if its harassing my moms pet lamb/sheep .. just one .. mom's pet .. but still a farm animal ..
GoodGuywitha9mm
.45 acp
Tread carefully on this one... by moving firearms (Handguns ONLY) to a place other than your address of record (assuming an expectation of them being subject to surrender) is covered under the NY SAFE Act, if a licensee at any time becomes ineligible to obtain or hold a license, the license is deemed revoked and, under NY Penal Law § 400.00(11)(c), the licensee is required to surrender (1) his or her license, and (2) his or her firearms, not just the licensed firearm(s), to law enforcement. In the event such license or firearm(s) are not surrendered, “such items shall be removed and declared a nuisance and any police officer or peace officer acting pursuant to his or her special duties is authorized to remove any and all such weapons.”
It doesn't spell it out (but what NY Law does) but if required to surrender firearms on your license (again, assumptions here) and they are not present to surrender them they likely would likely be assumed lost or stolen; marking them forever as unable to be possessed.
Rifles & Shotguns are not included obviously and can be "diversified". Despite thinking data is immediately available regarding prior NIC checks, it actually would take a LOT of legwork to dig up previous purchases of these, so probably a safe move in most cases.
I know, a lot of "what if's" but thought you should know...
I emailed USCCA about buying CCW coverage and this is the response that I received.
Good evening Peter,
Thank you for reaching out to the USCCA!
Unfortunately, due to circumstances outside of our control, we are unable to offer our memberships to those who live in the state of New York.
Our Executive Team is actively seeking out a New York-friendly solution to serve our fellow responsibly armed Americans who reside there.
Please feel free to reach out when you have any questions or concerns. You may reach us at 855-388-4081, by chat, or reply to this email.
Take care and stay safe.
Billie
USCCA Social Care Advisor
Support@uscca.com
855-388-4081
Good evening Peter,
Thank you for reaching out to the USCCA!
Unfortunately, due to circumstances outside of our control, we are unable to offer our memberships to those who live in the state of New York.
Our Executive Team is actively seeking out a New York-friendly solution to serve our fellow responsibly armed Americans who reside there.
Please feel free to reach out when you have any questions or concerns. You may reach us at 855-388-4081, by chat, or reply to this email.
Take care and stay safe.
Billie
USCCA Social Care Advisor
Support@uscca.com
855-388-4081
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
Same answer they have given for a year. NY is making it nearly impossible for any of these groups to sell coverage to us.
The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network offers plans to New Yorkers. Here is what the replied to my inquiry. Not sure if they would cover red flag issues however.
Dear Mr. Ramaglia,
Thank you for your question about availability of Network membership benefits in New York State. As a national organization, yes, the Network provides membership benefits as outlined at Membership Benefits in NY State.
The unfortunate hardships for subscribers to insurance-based post-incident support plans in NY stems from reliance on traditional insurance policies and underwriters, which fall under the regulatory thumb of the state bureaucracy. As a 100% membership benefits program, the Network maintains its ability to assist members in all 50 states and U.S. Territories. A comparison between the Network member support model and our competitors is at Buyers Guide and may help explain the differences.
I hope this helps! Please be sure to let me know if you have any further questions.
—Gila Hayes
Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc.
P O Box 400 • Onalaska, WA 98570
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
Dear Mr. Ramaglia,
Thank you for your question about availability of Network membership benefits in New York State. As a national organization, yes, the Network provides membership benefits as outlined at Membership Benefits in NY State.
The unfortunate hardships for subscribers to insurance-based post-incident support plans in NY stems from reliance on traditional insurance policies and underwriters, which fall under the regulatory thumb of the state bureaucracy. As a 100% membership benefits program, the Network maintains its ability to assist members in all 50 states and U.S. Territories. A comparison between the Network member support model and our competitors is at Buyers Guide and may help explain the differences.
I hope this helps! Please be sure to let me know if you have any further questions.
—Gila Hayes
Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc.
P O Box 400 • Onalaska, WA 98570
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
I am a member of the ACLDN. I also have the USCCA until it expires this year.
Any of the "insurance" groups have been operating against NYS law as they were not approved. The NRA & Carry Guard is what started it all. Pretty sure NY is just going to say NO to any insurance as they call it Murder Insurance.
Attempting to cover a red flag incident is much different than a shooting. In theory it should be cheaper and easier... but until we see a few go to court we won't really know.
I think all of the groups are going to see how it really plays out before they offer any kid of RF coverage. I'm sure premiums will go up to add that coverage.
Any of the "insurance" groups have been operating against NYS law as they were not approved. The NRA & Carry Guard is what started it all. Pretty sure NY is just going to say NO to any insurance as they call it Murder Insurance.
Attempting to cover a red flag incident is much different than a shooting. In theory it should be cheaper and easier... but until we see a few go to court we won't really know.
I think all of the groups are going to see how it really plays out before they offer any kid of RF coverage. I'm sure premiums will go up to add that coverage.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Speaking of insurance, the mandatory liability insurance policy being considered for gun owners in the Legislature (a single purpose $1,000,000 policy only used to pay a shooting "victim" or their estate and NO monies to defend the self-defense shooter) was gleefully estimated by the bill's sponsor (Kevin Parker) to cost the gunowner $2000.
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GoodGuywitha9mm
.45 acp
Odd... I have had coverage all along... as far as I know. We'll see when auto-renew comes up!
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
No new policies for NY and no renewals after X date from last year. I know I got mine in just in time.