NYSRPA does what it can, but you're not buying insurance or a hired gun. People seem to think the same of the NRA: "Just send them $25. every year and they'll make sure your Rights aren't infringed upon or get you out of the shit if you fuck up" well it doesn't work that way! YOU have to find the time and make the effort. EVERY Legislator has multiple web pages with both contact information and a toggle to e-mail them right there, a simple "I am opposed to or support (Bill number) contact me if you have any questions." How hard or time consuming is that?
What about the Semi-auto rifle license?
- Thread starter CaliberPlus
- Start date
ATF advises Dealers that they may refuse a sale for any reason or even no reason THEY choose.
Dealers in FL did not want to sell me some Rifles because I did not have a FL drivers Licenses and Hunting Licenses despite owning a House there and having a FL CCW, even the C&R they were hesitant about.
I've been in Shop in Ohio that posted signs outright refusing to sell guns to New York residents... seems they think we're all gun-running thugs from NYC, and so does our Legislature.
So how is it you know that Fudds are or will do "Private sales"? NY has prohibited private transfers (sans Family exemptions) without going through a Dealer for about a decade now.
The people thought to be buying 80% lowers and Pistol Frames, finishing them, and selling them to people that couldn't, shouldn't get them will find another way to supply their enterprise; Alcohol Prohibition and the Drug Wars should prove ample evidence of that. Apparently it's easier to go after the low hanging fruit from the Tree of compliant gun owners than to aggressively attack the actual problem.
Police don't have to "enforce it" as it's incumbent on Dealers to not sell to anyone without a Semi-automatic Licenses.
Besides, according to the proposed Bill you wouldn't need a Licenses to own a semi-auto, just to have one transferred to you. That said, we haven't seen or read through what was actually signed into Law.
right now Law Enforcement knows about as much as we do.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Really? Maybe that’s why I know it’s happening. A lot of FUDDS dont know the law and openly discuss how they got their new rifle. And when I tell them about the law, they say that only applies to handguns.
A lot of them don’t know the law.
It’s like the reporters who complain about needing more gun control but are shocked when they can’t buy a gun.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
I thought it was less about state lines than residency of the two people involved in the transaction. I could be wrong.
If two New York State residents own a second house in PA and store their rifles there, and one decides to sell a rifle to the other, isn’t that legal under federal law because both are residents of the same state? And since both are doing the transaction in PA, NY law on private sales doesn’t apply?
I don’t know. It’s a legit question on my part.
Most NYers have been doing the private sales all along. Many have ignored the laws passed in 13 with the SAFE Act.
As long as people do not buy any more semi rifles, the enforcement will fall to the Police. The Police will enforce these new laws and so many will break theri oaths.
You are correct, sort-of. In your scenario, NYS law would still apply. To do so legally, they would still need to transfer the gun through an FFL because they are both NY residents, and according to NYS laws, private transactions are forbidden. Otherwise, I could take my rifle, put it in the car, pick up my friend, drive to Erie, sell him the rifle, make him buy me lunch and an ice cream cone, and drive home.
In the original post that started all this, the NY resident was going to go to PA. and privately purchase a rifle from a friend, then bring it back to NY. He said that transaction would be legal, but he is wrong. Then he admitted it would be illegal, but would do it anyways. If he had his PA, friend purchase a gun and then sell it to him, that would be a straw purchase, as well as an interstate commerce offense of some sort ( smuggling ) and they both would be in legal deep shit.
Still, I believe that no FFL outside of NY would be obligated to refuse the sale of a NYSAFE compliant rifle to a NY resident lacking a semi-auto purchase permit. The gun is legal to own, and legal to posess in NY without the permit, so the transaction should be able to proceed. The permit is a permit to purchase. That should only apply within the State.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
The police are following their oaths. Remember that the understanding of the rights under the 2nd Admendment are still being determined and people honestly disagree as to what they are.
As far as private sale transactions, how many cases have you heard about? The only time I hear about it is if the gun was used in some crime and they trace the sale of that particular gun.
I agree to a point. Private transfers still occur, but only between people that know each other. Nobody wants to do a private transfer with someone they don't know because they are afraid of the other person being an agent of the State. The sale of rifles that had to be registered according to NYSAFE ( and weren't ) still happens, but not between strangers.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
But will they do it?
Right after NYSAFE was signed, some guy in the Jamestown NY area got arrested for selling a non-compliant, unregistered rifle to an undercover cop.
subsonic
.44 mag
The federal law that applies is 18 USC 922.
OP's plan was illegal whether his friend was from Pennsylvania or New York, if OP and his friend are not both already bona fide Pennsylvania residents and his friend is not dead, due to subsection (a)(3):
"(a)It shall be unlawful—
(3)for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, [meaning lawfully through an FFL] and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;"
So it has to go through a dealer under subsection (b)(3), but the problem with (b)(3), unlike (b)(2), which only prohibits delivery of firearms illegal for the purchaser to possess at the place of delivery, (b)(3) prohibits sale to out-of-state residents if "the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States." While a nice reach to try, it is not enough that the firearm is legal to possess in the purchaser's home state. The sale, delivery, and receipt conditions of the home state would apply. You would have to argue somehow that the New York licensing scheme was specifically intended to only apply to New York state residents buying in New York and avoid this law.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
...
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States),
Good luck finding an FFL that will sell a semiauto to you after this is in effect, and you can be sure NY and ATF will collaborate to shut down dealers from doing so.
Now will it survive court challenge? We'll see. States like Illinois and NJ have already required permits to purchase, and NY has already required permits to purchase handguns, and the law has a severability clause, so I am not holding my breath for the permit semiauto permit to go away.
subsonic
.44 mag
Either an agent of the state or a prohibited person up to no good that will come back to me as the last traceable purchaser. Who else is going to be asking a stranger with no trust to avoid a BG check in NY? That's for all long guns, period.
There was a story in the news here a couple years ago about police chasing down purchasers of shotguns and rifles at an upstate yard sale. I'm not sure they found them all or if the seller was charged (he claimed ignorance).
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CaliberPlus
.45 acp
"A license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, or to purchase or take possession of a semiautomatic rifle,......."
To take possession of is a broad statement. It also means no more sales.
I believe it is A10503 that was signed. Read it and have a cardiovascular workout, I am still trying to not stroke out.
I don't believe there will be lots of enforcement for most but for dealers, yeah. Unlike the Saf Act, it is my understanding (fu)KH has thrown money at this. She will probably create her own little brand of "Enforcement".
I've read it, but really need to take a Legal Pad and digest every single word and reference to another section, sub-section, etc.
Words and punctuation have specific meanings.
I suspect Counties will read and interpret to the satisfaction of their District Attorney and/or Judge what needs to be done and how. Just look at how Handgun Licenses are handled and vary from County to County.4
It DOES say clearly say "on or after such effective date." which means that any semi-automatics you have or transfer before the 90th day Post enactment are grandfathered in... no fucking telling (as of right now) who is going to be able to buy a Semi-automatic Rifle after 1 Sept. 2022
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
New to them. It’s happened at quite a few times at certain NRA related events. It would start a conversation around the room. Mostly downstate guys but they could have come from other places.
I find that odd in that it's published and verbally disclosed at every NRA or Ducks Unlimited event I've attended that a NICS Check would be conducted for every gun, and there was one done on every gun. I wouldn't be surprised if someone won a gun and sold/gave it to another there, but the Guns brought in for the event ARE transferred between FFL's and disposed of the same way it would be done at a Shop.
If I found patrons breaking the Law in the event they would be removed. it's that sort of jackassery that's used against everyone conducting an honest event. Remember it was just a couple years ago the Legislature tried with prejudice to eliminate Guns as Prizes for Raffles.
Personally, I uphold the Right to dispose of one's own property as they see fit, however the State has seen fit to usurp that Right, therefor we must follow it to the Letter until it can be changed: that Felony Charge changes everything in your life.
Gunright
.45 acp
Off topic: So, I haven't bought any new guns in a couple/few years. My last purchase was a Ruger Carbine (takedown 9MM).
What would be good to get before the law kicks in?
What would be good to get before the law kicks in?
There is a law that all gun owners have a Ruger 10/22 or a few!! LOL!!!
Gunright
.45 acp
Have one, also a takedown. (I seem to have a "liking" to them. Also have a Henry AR-7.)
If you have an AR? maybe a Mini 14...
Get another carbine, a couple of Mini-14’s and a couple of 10/22’s. I would also reccommend a couple of semi auto shotguns, a Beretta 1301 and a Benelli M4 or M2.
subsonic
.44 mag
The permit scheme shouldn't apply to semiauto shotguns though (yet), so if one is emptying ones bank account to get a lifetime supply of permitless guns those could wait.
A bunch of stripped lowers would also be a good affordable investment. I wasn't sure if the "other" ban would take those away but last time I check the LGS around here was still transferring them.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
I’m talking about the guys who sit down at the table and start talking about their rifle and how they got it. Not any of the contest winners or transactions at the event. These FUDDs are then informed about the law after one of them had just admitted to a private sale. Then a small law debate ensues and they are then educated.
DEFINITELY not anything involving what is happening at any of the meetings.
Well I guess I stand corrected, and you will not be able to simply purchase a compliant firearm out of State.
Let's see just how long this lasts before it's overruled.
CaliberPlus
.45 acp
Bill A10503 was signed June 6th, takes effect 90 days, 9/6/22. Still no word on what to do as there is no permit process available and won't be for some time.
ETA effective date is 9/4.
Counties do vary greatly but they all have a permit process for handguns. The fact we even have to think about a semi long gun just seems surreal.
I am back to being so angry am having a time being polite in writing about this mess. In one of the the other pieces of crap passed, semiauto shotguns were referenced. Even if they are not included at this point, they will be if this is left to stand, imho. Further, how does one prove he/she is "grandfathered"?? I am still not clear on the whole license thing and buying ammo. Buying ammo for an unlicensed rifle? Rmemeber, the lot # of the ammo and all the other info, caliber, amount and purchaser is all supposed to go in to the state database (their word).
ETA effective date is 9/4.
Counties do vary greatly but they all have a permit process for handguns. The fact we even have to think about a semi long gun just seems surreal.
I am back to being so angry am having a time being polite in writing about this mess. In one of the the other pieces of crap passed, semiauto shotguns were referenced. Even if they are not included at this point, they will be if this is left to stand, imho. Further, how does one prove he/she is "grandfathered"?? I am still not clear on the whole license thing and buying ammo. Buying ammo for an unlicensed rifle? Rmemeber, the lot # of the ammo and all the other info, caliber, amount and purchaser is all supposed to go in to the state database (their word).
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CaliberPlus
.45 acp
Another facet is that no one under 18 is suppsed to hunt or even posses a firearm. I am thinking that will rule out all school trap teams as most kids are under 18 , plus the blurb about sporting events being a "safe space". I am reading bill passed 7/2 quickly but this has been a topic of conversation and am trying to find the print version.