Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
I'm looking for a suit pocket n gun
What do you think about the .380 as a defense round?
- Thread starter Deplorable Me
- Start date
I trust it as a defense round and have a few pocket 380's that I carry.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I went with the 9mm because you have firearms very compact but the 380 can be even smaller.
At some point if it is too small it doesn't matter the caliber it can become difficult to shoot, at least
for me because I have very big paws.
I would suggest to ask around and see if you can try a 380 and small 9mm.
As far as the 380 being lethal with fmj gives plenty of momentum.
Even a 25 ACP or 22LR can be lethal. It really matters where you make contact and
what kind of compromise one is willing to accept.
Personally I find 9mm small pistols quite handy to even carry inside a tuxedo.
At some point if it is too small it doesn't matter the caliber it can become difficult to shoot, at least
for me because I have very big paws.
I would suggest to ask around and see if you can try a 380 and small 9mm.
As far as the 380 being lethal with fmj gives plenty of momentum.
Even a 25 ACP or 22LR can be lethal. It really matters where you make contact and
what kind of compromise one is willing to accept.
Personally I find 9mm small pistols quite handy to even carry inside a tuxedo.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
In my opinion it isn't an ideal caliber but if you going for it due to size, the round you choose is everything.
Almost all hollow points fail in .380 to reach the FBI minimum of 12 inches fired from a 2 to 3 inch barrel. A few do though. They are rounds loaded with the Hornady XTP bullet.
Check out this ammo tester. He has tested dozens of rounds and only find a few that performed well.
Final Results of the .380 ACP Ammo Quest
Almost all hollow points fail in .380 to reach the FBI minimum of 12 inches fired from a 2 to 3 inch barrel. A few do though. They are rounds loaded with the Hornady XTP bullet.
Check out this ammo tester. He has tested dozens of rounds and only find a few that performed well.
Final Results of the .380 ACP Ammo Quest
BS fucking 12" of gelatin has nothing to do with caliber effectiveness and one shot stopping power...
Fact is, the .380 is as good, if not "BETTER" than the 9mm round as a defense round. Large hands excluded as mentioned, but the round is very manageable, thereby allowing accurate close range shooting. So, "BETTER" is then a relative term, better meaning the ability to fire accurately, because penetrating 12" of gelatin 3' away from your target doesn't do you a world of good...
So anyways, here a good read, enjoy...
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
Fact is, the .380 is as good, if not "BETTER" than the 9mm round as a defense round. Large hands excluded as mentioned, but the round is very manageable, thereby allowing accurate close range shooting. So, "BETTER" is then a relative term, better meaning the ability to fire accurately, because penetrating 12" of gelatin 3' away from your target doesn't do you a world of good...
So anyways, here a good read, enjoy...
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
I would go with a 9 mm over a .380. I think the 9mm is a slightly better round, they are cheaper, more available, and tons of guns available in them. I have a kimber solo very nice gun, but it does not fit my hand so well. I replaced it with a Springfield xd. I may sell my kimber solo, but in not sure. That would be a nice pocket pistol and looks good to match your tuxedo.
My Sig238 eats Underwood : )
Depick
.308 Win
I prefer 9mm most compact .380s I've handled Are just far to small for my hands. However if I found the right firearm I'd carry it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm more inclined to believe scientists employed by the FBI that have studied this for years to come up with parameters then the nonsense in that article.
The fact of the matter is that if using hollow points, they have to penetrate to a certain amount. The FBI-Miami shooting proved that the 9mm used expanded large but failed to reach vitals keeping the shooter in the fight.
Because of that fight, the 10mm and later the .40 was born. Later on 9mm ammo improved to meet those specs.
That article takes a lot of FMJ's into account that reach vitals. If it weren't for those FMJ's, those numbers would be off.
I do agree that shot placement is everything but if using hollow point round that don't reach vitals, the placement means nothing.
That is why many shooters use FMJ's in .380.
Any round can kill you but they have to reach vitals for immediate incapacitation.
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carpediem
.338 Win Mag
If I went down in caliber I wouldn't go that far down. Personally, I think 9mm would be the lower limit. I agree with meketrefe though, even a .25 can be lethal.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
380 dead is just like 9mm dead.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Been carrying my colt
Mustang pocketlite since the early 90s. Great pocket gun.
Mustang pocketlite since the early 90s. Great pocket gun.
C3D
.308 Win
When in summer shorts, Glock 42 in pocket carry for the win.
carpediem
.338 Win Mag
But if a 9mm kills in 1/2 the time, it lessens the chance of you being fatally shot as well.
Shot placement is end of discussion, only difference hollow point makes is wound channel. Penetration is greater with FMJ, and many, including myself, load alternate FMJ/JHP in their guns for defense. One record doesn't do crap to prove anything... I could use this one as a better example:
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
The article is a good one as it demonstrates to remove certain mentalities which exist in my opinion largely due to TV and Movies, that you shoot assailant, assailant falls down dead. That just doesn't happen. But the article author took time to research real shooting statistics, not how well a round penetrated imitation body mass, but real world, real people shootings and the results. Can't best that...
As I mentioned, my belief is the .380 is a potent round, in today's firearms, offers a good blend of size, strength of protection and accuracy, I can drive tacks at 15yds with my little Sig, and that's good enough for me. And for the record, I shoot my 9mm best, but love my .357Sig and carry FMJ loads with that too...
If anything about the little .380 I would complain about, is its diminished size reduces the rounds it carries, but I always carry 3 extra mags lmao... Just in case that first shot stop doesn't work like TV 
For a very small pocket gun I think the .380 is better suited. A 9mm in such a small gun is a handful and a handheld flashbang.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You are missing the point. A .380 is a potent round but only if it reaches vitals. In a FMJ it does no different than a 9mm or .38 in FMJ as well. They are all about the same diameter and will overpenetrate through a human body. The difference however is in hollow points.Shot placement is end of discussion, only difference hollow point makes is wound channel. Penetration is greater with FMJ, and many, including myself, load alternate FMJ/JHP in their guns for defense. One record doesn't do crap to prove anything... I could use this one as a better example:
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
The article is a good one as it demonstrates to remove certain mentalities which exist in my opinion largely due to TV and Movies, that you shoot assailant, assailant falls down dead. That just doesn't happen. But the article author took time to research real shooting statistics, not how well a round penetrated imitation body mass, but real world, real people shootings and the results. Can't best that...
As I mentioned, my belief is the .380 is a potent round, in today's firearms, offers a good blend of size, strength of protection and accuracy, I can drive tacks at 15yds with my little Sig, and that's good enough for me. And for the record, I shoot my 9mm best, but love my .357Sig and carry FMJ loads with that too...
In a hollow point, only a few .380's penetrate enough and barely at the 12 inch minimum. If it does not penetrate enough in a hollow point, than how is it potent?
And why alternate when there are a few hollow points in .380 that reach vitals? Why not carry those instead of alternating between an underperforming hollow point and a FMJ?
I don't get it.
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Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
My 380 always gives two in the chest and one in the head ( if needed). It has been trained to do that since the 90s
Get penetration squared away first, then go for as much expansion as the first requirement allows. Personally for a tiny little deep concealment gun I would consider a .32, a Seecamp perhaps. Even the .380 can be punishing in such guns.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
With the wrong ammo the headshot will be the only one that counts.
I think that FMJs to the heart would count pretty well, though I'll allow that hitting specific organs under stress is somthing of a trick shot.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I agree. I posted a thread on that in the ammo section about FMJ's being better than hollow points that expand but don't penetrate enough.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Many people put a lot of thought into the gun they carry yet put little to no thought in the ammo that goes in it.
The ammo that goes in it is just as important if not more than the platform it's fired from.
The ammo that goes in it is just as important if not more than the platform it's fired from.
I assumed that everyone geeked out over their ammo as I do these days?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don't think so. You have guys carrying crap that barely reaches 10 inches in gel and fails to expand and plugs up with clothing in the winter.
The information is out there. If you don't have the time to research it than the easy way is to load up on what the police use. They test their rounds.
Celt
.338 Win Mag
Im a big supporter of 9mm. But if you cant get a small enough 9mm to conceal in the clothing you need, then a smaller 380 is better than the 9mm you DONT carry at all.
As with anything, there is a point of diminishing return with small 9mm pistols. I put that point about where guns like the Shield, Glock 43 ect are. Below that size the .380 comes back into its own.