Sev289
22lr
As the title says
What is the legal consensus on the juggernaut hellfighter kit in NY?
- Thread starter Sev289
- Start date
fnfalguy
.308 Win
What’s your risk tolerance?
not being a smart ass, but the state has made zero determinations on any compliance devices.
not being a smart ass, but the state has made zero determinations on any compliance devices.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
No way to know until someone gets arrested and the case actually goes before a jury. Which is most likely never going to happen, the state will find a way to plead it down somehow to keep judicial review from being a possibility.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
We don't do consensus here.
Twogunwilly
6.5 Creedmoor
pics will have to be submitted for further review.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Hellfighter California Compliant Mod Kit - Juggernaut
Juggernaut Tactical Hellfighter California Compliant Mod Kit AR15 & AR-10 - Juggernaut Tactical - Black - Ultra-fast magazine changes Easy to install in 30 minutes or less Featureless AR components no longer needed No need to permanently modify your upper or lower No need for bullet button...
www.uspatriotarmory.com
Robin
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I'm not a lawyer but i would not want to defend this thing in court. One small pre-mag release button press, the rear lifts up a 1/4", then the mag releases. Then it's legal because the gun is "taken apart"? You won't find many (any?) stores in NY selling guns with this pre-installed.
It's been years since SAFE was in place and as far as I can tell the best option remains a thordsen stock.
It's been years since SAFE was in place and as far as I can tell the best option remains a thordsen stock.
Deplorable Me
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Can we take a vote on that.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
I like how these companies say they are "patriots" and then say they won't ship here or there. Sooo... You're a patriot, but cower to an unjust and unconstitutional regulation.
GTFO.
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
When I read this BS I never go back to that site. Keeping a list of whose naughty or nice.
Real NY patriots choose "Other"
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
You got me thinking about "other" things
Some idiot has a thread in general firearms that may be related?
Lower receiver marking questions.
Q #1: Does My Brother From Another Mother Who Would Like Another Other Other Need To Have A Natural Mother With The Stamp of Other ? Q #2: Does My Brother From Another Mother Who Would Like Another Other Other Brother Allowed To Have A Surrogate Multi Mother Of Another? Discuss
nygunforum.com
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You guys are too fixed on the term “FIXED MAGAZINE “. That isn’t what the law says. The law says, “ A semi automatic rifle that has the ABILITY to ACCEPT a detachable magazine”.
And once you remove that magazine what do you think the rifle is doing when you put the magazine back in?
This works in California because their laws are worded different. That’s why it’s CA Compliant and not CA and NY Compliant.
And once you remove that magazine what do you think the rifle is doing when you put the magazine back in?
This works in California because their laws are worded different. That’s why it’s CA Compliant and not CA and NY Compliant.
By your thought process, all AR, AK pattern weapons should be illegal. Because regardless if they are fix or not. They are capable of accepting a mag, at least one time.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
A stripped lower is not a semi automatic rifle. If you "fix" the magazine at any point before it becomes a semi automatic, then the semi automatic rifle cannot accept a detachable magazine.
By that thought process, once the action is opened by separating the upper from the lower, it is not a functional rifle. It can't shoot anything and is not semi automatic. It would seem that if the magazine is inserted before it is made semi automatic again (by assembling the two halves) then it cannot accept a detachable magazine.
It would only be a semi automatic rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine if you reassembled it without inserting the magazine.
By that thought process, once the action is opened by separating the upper from the lower, it is not a functional rifle. It can't shoot anything and is not semi automatic. It would seem that if the magazine is inserted before it is made semi automatic again (by assembling the two halves) then it cannot accept a detachable magazine.
It would only be a semi automatic rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine if you reassembled it without inserting the magazine.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. It's an unintended consequence due to them striking away the definition of what continues a fixed magazine from the original draft. It was struck from the original draft to prevent use of the bullet button. I remember posting the original draft on the old forum. Will Leo's enforce a rifle that has a bolt used to fix the magazine? Probably not. But according to how the law is written, you are correct that all AK. AR patterns should be illegal if using that thought process of interpreting the law as it is exactly written.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
I agree. At first when some one, likely on this board, told me this I thought they were being an asshole. Then I thought about it and said damn they are right.
Here’s my take you can pull the pin and the gun is the slightest bit taken apart, but what is preventing you from closing the upper to the lower and then it’s a complete gun and it will accept a magazine. I say it’s a no go unfortunately.
Honestly this was my plan until some one here schooled me. I went with DD’s ranch fixed mag button and epoxied it in place.
The epoxy is over kill but makes some people feel good. As I see it, once you start taking tools to my rifle you are changing what it is and that’s on you. Not me. Remember, the word “permanent” exists nowhere.
It’s no different than taking a hand tool and sawing off my barrel and making is a short barrel rifle. You used tools and changed what I had.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
All these compliance options and all these interpretations of what the law says with all the "This should be permanent or this doesn't have to be permanent or this is fixed and this is not." is why I dumped the whole AR platform all together. No matter what anyone says, none of these fixed mag options are ideal. You are limited to 10 rd magazines. If you were limited to 30 rd magazines than I can see the usefulness of a fixed mag but unfortunately we are stuck with 10. Perhaps featureless is slightly better since you still have a semi auto that can accept magazines but even that has it's negatives.
The grip angle is fucked up or the filled in thumbhole prevents a proper grip or the spur prevents a proper grip. All of these options just plain suck and are silly. The Thordsen is probably the best but than you have the weird grip angle that doesn't allow you to effectively utilize the safety correctly. And if you modify it with ambidextrous safeties to make the Thordsen work, you still have to deal with the fixed LOP that may be too long for most and then you have to look at that ridiculous thing every time you pick it up. What's the point? Most only use these neutered monstrosities for hunting and or range plinking. Why not just build a side charging manually operated rifle or use a pump action upper or buy a complete pump action AR from Troy? Is a semi auto really going to make the difference whether you bag a deer or not to have to fix the magazine or use one of these ridiculous stocks or grips? No. Deer are harvested with bolt actions every day. Is a semi auto used for plinking really going to make a difference on whether you get 3 rounds to cloverleaf at 100 yards? No. You are going to slow fire those anyway. You can do the same with a bolt action or side charging straight pull.
It's all nonsense.
The grip angle is fucked up or the filled in thumbhole prevents a proper grip or the spur prevents a proper grip. All of these options just plain suck and are silly. The Thordsen is probably the best but than you have the weird grip angle that doesn't allow you to effectively utilize the safety correctly. And if you modify it with ambidextrous safeties to make the Thordsen work, you still have to deal with the fixed LOP that may be too long for most and then you have to look at that ridiculous thing every time you pick it up. What's the point? Most only use these neutered monstrosities for hunting and or range plinking. Why not just build a side charging manually operated rifle or use a pump action upper or buy a complete pump action AR from Troy? Is a semi auto really going to make the difference whether you bag a deer or not to have to fix the magazine or use one of these ridiculous stocks or grips? No. Deer are harvested with bolt actions every day. Is a semi auto used for plinking really going to make a difference on whether you get 3 rounds to cloverleaf at 100 yards? No. You are going to slow fire those anyway. You can do the same with a bolt action or side charging straight pull.
It's all nonsense.
And it makes nobody safer. It actually makes the rifle more dangerous and harder to control. I like my setup because in another state or if our law ever changes I can take a set screw out, install the mag catch spring and I have a fully functional AR in a matter of 5 minutes.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yep. Thats the only good benefit of a fixed mag. Someone who lives close to PA or VT and can drive there in a few minutes to actually enjoy it.
repete
.338 Win Mag
Because some people (me) want a semi auto not a pump or bolt action.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Given that the MANUFACTURER of this item says they will not ship it to NY...
I think you're right.
This is why I have said that in some cases Commiefornia is less oppressive in regards to the 2A than this shit hole of a state. At least the Commiefornia DOJ has clear definitions of what is acceptable/not acceptable. New York is a disaster with the unSAFE act; written by a bunch of fucking moronic liberal cunts who know absolutely nothing about firearms.
The paramount thing is this nation is that lawmakers should not be able to write law without being a subject matter expert in the field that it will prohibit, restrict or diminish. Not to mention that its purely unconstitutional but we are already beyond that point.
The paramount thing is this nation is that lawmakers should not be able to write law without being a subject matter expert in the field that it will prohibit, restrict or diminish. Not to mention that its purely unconstitutional but we are already beyond that point.
C3D
.308 Win
MarineCpl pretty much nailed it. The magazine is detachable, full stop. Doesn’t matter whether you need to press a button to break open the rifle to do it.