Why no love for Dan Wesson?
- Thread starter GuyMontag
- Start date
I did handle a very high end WC model once. Had to struggle mightily to unlock the action. This does not appeal to me.Don't knock it until you try it.
It was a very nice piece of craftsmanship though.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Pod, go scoreboard, there's a Bob Marvel 10mm on Gunbroker that's beyond delicious. You want to know what a "custom" truly means, just look at that slide.
Keeyripes! I dont think I could bring myself to shoot something that fancy and nice.Pod, you want to go scoreboard, there's a Bob Marvel 10mm on Gunbroker that's beyond delicious. You want to know what a "custom" truly means, just look at that slide.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
So is this mostly about the looks of the gun or the actual function? I have a range officer and a Remington. The RO is definitely tighter than the Remington and a better trigger but they function about the same. The only way I would pay thousands more would be if whatever ferry dust they put on the more expensive one somehow made me shoot better. But we know nothing can make you shoot better. Only practice. So if looks are your thing then have at it but I don't think anything they do with the 1911s that cost thousands and thousands more are going to do anything to improve your actual shooting.
Actually the SA's Range officer is the model I was originally targeting. But then Springfield Armory went full retard in IL and I now refuse to purchase any of their products. Rock River Arms too.
LMS
.357 mag
I have a DW Pointman 9 and I just love it. Amazingly accurate and beautiful. I also had ECO but sold it to fund something else. The observation someone made earlier about the DW 1911's fitting a niche between a low end production 1911 and an STI or Wilson was right on. When I bought mine I wanted something more than an entry level but couldn't justify a Wilson. That's their price point and they must be doing something right. They really are a good value for what you get.
freddy
.308 Win
I personally would delete the giant 'pinnacle' and 'wilson combat' from the slide.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I personally would delete the giant 'pinnacle' and 'wilson combat' from the slide.
I won't dispute that some of these soul killers are beautiful. The one you pictured is gorgeous! But do you really get anything extra outside of that? Like will this one make me shoot any better than my RO or Rem? Maybe it's just me but I'd rather spring for the cheaper option that will do the same thing as the pretty one and go spend the extra money on a street bike or extra ammo or another gun or...
freddy
.308 Win
Yes, I think hand fitting of a 1911 is really the ultimate goal (ala Dan Wesson, etc) since the 1911 design really requires hand fitting to make it work the best it can. That is not to say there are no good shooting $600 1911's but rather that properly hand fit 1911's are more likely to shoot well (accuracy and feeding). As I see it, anything much beyond a DW Valor is more for cosmetic reasons and bragging rights. And again, I sure would like a nice Wilson or Brown. Just that the Valor (for example) achieves supreme lockup and the entire gun is extremely tight/accurate/reliable but for significantly less cost than a Wilson or Brown.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Serious question. How so? What happens if it isn't hand fit? What is better about the DW vs the $600 pistol due to the hand fitting?
1911s are no different than any other gun.
Like an AR you can spend $600 bucks one on and its fine, or you can spend more than three grand and its also fine.
You zero in on what tickles your fancy and then you pay accordingly.
Like an AR you can spend $600 bucks one on and its fine, or you can spend more than three grand and its also fine.
You zero in on what tickles your fancy and then you pay accordingly.
freddy
.308 Win
Hopefully others will chime in because the full answer is above my pay grade. But in short the fitment between the slide/frame, and the barrel lug/slide, and barrel/bushing; all contribute to accuracy. The freeplay between certain components must approach zero, and does on properly hand fitted 1911s. Also, proper fitment and polishing of the feedramp, trigger assembly, etc.
The 1911 was designed in a time when hand fitting was the norm. CNC does very well of course, but if you want to be certain to get the best out of a 1911, the final fitting is done by hand. Lesser 1911s have discernible play between the slide/frame and the barrel/bushing is not tight. Also, the barrel lug/slide do not have proper lockup. This can result in less than optimal accuracy.
This is unlike Glocks, for example, where hand fitting is unnecessary.
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freddy
.308 Win
This is somewhat true, but my understanding is that with the 1911 design your probability of getting a prime running and accurate example are reduced when hand fitting is absent. Hand fitting costs, ergo the ~$1k+ price tag for a new 1911 that reliably is turn key out of the box. Not saying you cannot get a good 1911 for $600 new, just saying your chances go up substantially with skillful hand fitting. That is just the nature of the 1911 design.
Since I'm looking for a traditional 1911 I wonder if I would be better served with the DW's A2 model?
freddy
.308 Win
Just do it bro! At the time of this writing it is only $1183 at Buds. Grab some Wilson mags and you are all set.
"...A lowered and flared ejection port, modern combat sights, tactical beavertail and an extended thumb safety, as well as a hint of undercutting the trigger guard, make this one combat-ready pistol. Starting with a forged steel frame and slide, the A2 is built using top-shelf parts, each component hand-fit. Parts are blended by hand, then it is bead blasted and finished in matte blue. Double diamond walnut grips give it a classic look while the stainless steel match barrel and tight slide-to-frame fit..."
A2 - Dan Wesson
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freddy
.308 Win
Here is a recent review of the A2 by Massad Ayoob:
Dan Wesson A2 Commander 1911 .45 Auto | On Target Magazine
Dan Wesson A2 Commander 1911 .45 Auto | On Target Magazine
For gun stuff a Mid-high end low power variable optic + mount for my AR is top priority right now. After that is an entryish level bolt bench rifle again with a good optic. A CZ P01 is prolly the next handgun priority. After that I'll want a big, heavy, stable target handgun in 9mm for dedicated range use. After all that I will consider branching out into different postol calibers with the DW 1911 competing with a SIG P220 Elite in 10mm or a S&W 686/586 .357. Obviously this is a very long term kinda thing.Just do it bro! At the time of this writing it is only $1183 at Buds. Grab some Wilson mags and you are all set.
"...A lowered and flared ejection port, modern combat sights, tactical beavertail and an extended thumb safety, as well as a hint of undercutting the trigger guard, make this one combat-ready pistol. Starting with a forged steel frame and slide, the A2 is built using top-shelf parts, each component hand-fit. Parts are blended by hand, then it is bead blasted and finished in matte blue. Double diamond walnut grips give it a classic look while the stainless steel match barrel and tight slide-to-frame fit..."
A2 - Dan Wesson
freddy
.308 Win
So, you're a tire kicker, eh?
Yes, I carefully consider my gun purchases beforehand, given that they represent a higher than average percentage of my income as compared, I imagine, to most people.
My other issue is that whenever large chunks of disposable income are available I spend it on ammo. I shoot quite alot of it.
freddy
.308 Win
Just teasing you man. Get the ammo. I need some myself.
When considering a new caliber, I purchase a minimum of 2000 rounds or 200 pieces of brass and 1000 projectiles prior to buying the gun. This is a lesson I learned in 2002 when I bought a 17HMR I ordered the gun, scope, 10 magazines and, 2000 rounds on the same day. The gun, magazines and scope came in, were mounted and ready for pick up in a week. The ammo showed up 6 months later.
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That's why I only work with the bog standard calibers. The bench rifle will be a .308 for example. But SG Ammo's is swift and reliable besides.
I don't think I could afford to do 2k rounds of .308 in one go. As a low volume gun I'd purchase maybe 200 rounds at a time.
When I bought the Savage BMag, 17WSM, I spent the prior 5 months buying 150 rounds at a time whenever I found it until I had 2K then I ordered the gun. The ammo is more readily available now so I buy 100 rounds to go to the range with and still have a 1200 round stash as a back up.
freddy
.308 Win
Ha! You must have been pissed!
Wasn't happy that is for sure. When I do my .224 Valkyrie build next year I will have plenty of brass on hand prior to chambering the rifle.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Ammo's a given, grab your checkbook Pod and get the DW!!!
In all seriousness, that A2 is a real nice gun with classic lines, I really like it.
Improved function for more dough: is it worth it? ..... really depends on the shooter.
Most guys aren't going to need it and rightly scoff at spending more, but to others it's well worth it.
Frame/slide fit w/in .0002, (yes you're reading that correctly) and 1.5" group at 50 yards with 10 shots.
Not happening with a factory gun, totally doable by the right smith, but you're going to pay for it.
When it comes to speed, accuracy and dependability at the top end, you get what you pay for.
Here's Chuck Rogers sigline, it says it all:
CHEAP-FAST-GOOD
Pick any two.
In all seriousness, that A2 is a real nice gun with classic lines, I really like it.
Improved function for more dough: is it worth it? ..... really depends on the shooter.
Most guys aren't going to need it and rightly scoff at spending more, but to others it's well worth it.
Frame/slide fit w/in .0002, (yes you're reading that correctly) and 1.5" group at 50 yards with 10 shots.
Not happening with a factory gun, totally doable by the right smith, but you're going to pay for it.
When it comes to speed, accuracy and dependability at the top end, you get what you pay for.
Here's Chuck Rogers sigline, it says it all:
CHEAP-FAST-GOOD
Pick any two.
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Scope comes first. I'm looking to drop up to $1500 on one.Ammo's a given, grab your checkbook Pod and get the DW!!!
In all seriousness, that A2 is a real nice gun with classic lines, I really like it.
Improved function for more dough: is it worth it? ..... really depends on the shooter.
Most guys aren't going to need it and rightly scoff at spending more, but to others it's well worth it.
Frame/slide fit w/in .002, (yes you're reading that correctly) and 1.5" group at 50 yards with 10 shots.
Not happening with a factory gun, totally doable by the right smith, but you're going to pay for it.
When it comes to speed, accuracy and dependability at the top end, you get what you pay for.
Here's Chuck Rogers sigline, it says it all:
CHEAP-FAST-GOOD
Pick any two.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Is this tested somewhere? I'd like to see the 2 guns clamped to a bench using the same exact ammo for this test. Then you'd have to ask if it's the fitment or the barrel? If there is a decisive difference then I'd like to see the test using the same exact barrels. If there is still a difference then I'd be inclined to believe fitment is making an actual difference.