UpStateEd
.45 acp
Anyone familiar with this ammo...appears to be very effective.
Xtreme Penetrator VS. Xtreme Defense Ammo
- Thread starter UpStateEd
- Start date
Different Drummer
.44 mag
I have no personal experience with it. I have researched it rather extensively in it's 7.65 Browning iteration.
Yes, I do carry that caliber from time to time. Please let's not open that topic in this thread.
What I have read and what I have seen on video in that particular caliber was quite impressive in comparison to other options in the same caliber. Don't know how it would compete against the plethora of SD ammo available in 9X19.
Yes, I do carry that caliber from time to time. Please let's not open that topic in this thread.
What I have read and what I have seen on video in that particular caliber was quite impressive in comparison to other options in the same caliber. Don't know how it would compete against the plethora of SD ammo available in 9X19.
UpStateEd
.45 acp
Just to be clear..I'm inquiring about the ammo...not caliber.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
There is a guy on YouTube that down talks this ammo and it makes sense. He says it's nothing more than a pretty FMJ.
He says that gel is not representative of real muscle tissue and was never designed as such. It is a consistent medium to test ammo that will always have a repeatable result.
You can tear a chunk of gel of with your fingers but you cannot tear a chunk of skin and muscles with your fingers off a living animal. So 12 inches in gel does not equate to 12 inches in flesh.
What it does mean however is that 12 inches in gel is enough to reach vitals on a human. Vitals are about 4 inches from the surface.
So wound channels in gel mean nothing. They don't make the same size channel in a body. So that wound channel in gel created by this ammo won't behave the same in flesh.
This guy shoot a dead hog with both this ammo and a regular FMJ and got the same sized wound channels.
The flutes this ammo has is enough to disrupt gel but not enough to disrupt real tissue. Remember the tearing a piece of gel off with your fingers.
Only a hollow point that physically expands and makes a larger wound channel can create a larger wound channel. This ammo does not on real tissue.
I agree with him.
He says that gel is not representative of real muscle tissue and was never designed as such. It is a consistent medium to test ammo that will always have a repeatable result.
You can tear a chunk of gel of with your fingers but you cannot tear a chunk of skin and muscles with your fingers off a living animal. So 12 inches in gel does not equate to 12 inches in flesh.
What it does mean however is that 12 inches in gel is enough to reach vitals on a human. Vitals are about 4 inches from the surface.
So wound channels in gel mean nothing. They don't make the same size channel in a body. So that wound channel in gel created by this ammo won't behave the same in flesh.
This guy shoot a dead hog with both this ammo and a regular FMJ and got the same sized wound channels.
The flutes this ammo has is enough to disrupt gel but not enough to disrupt real tissue. Remember the tearing a piece of gel off with your fingers.
Only a hollow point that physically expands and makes a larger wound channel can create a larger wound channel. This ammo does not on real tissue.
I agree with him.
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freddy
.308 Win
Docgkr has good info: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
I have done ballistic gel testing with this ammo.
9mm, .45 and .357 SIG for the Xtreme defense and .380 Xtreme penetrator
In 9mm it was 90gr+P Underwood Xtreme defense penetrated 17-17 !/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.45 ACP Xtreme Defense 120gr penetrated to 17-17 1/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.380 Xtreme Penetrator 90gr penetrated to 17-17 1/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.357 Sig 90 gr Xtreme Defense penetrated to around 20 1/2"
They all performed very well except for the over penetration of the .357SIG
9mm, .45 and .357 SIG for the Xtreme defense and .380 Xtreme penetrator
In 9mm it was 90gr+P Underwood Xtreme defense penetrated 17-17 !/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.45 ACP Xtreme Defense 120gr penetrated to 17-17 1/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.380 Xtreme Penetrator 90gr penetrated to 17-17 1/2" through bare gel, 4 layers of Denim and Winter wear
.357 Sig 90 gr Xtreme Defense penetrated to around 20 1/2"
They all performed very well except for the over penetration of the .357SIG
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A FMJ would do the same thing.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So these rounds are actually less powerful then.
Sort of. What they do is the flutes prevent them from over penetrating. Kind of like hydraulic brakes. The wound channels were only impressive on the .380. However I don't think it can be quantified in ballistic gel.
No not less power, it's a function of transferring of energy.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well from what someone who tested them on actual hog flesh gathered on YouTube, the wound tracks are identical to FMJ's.
Mind you I'm just going by a posters comments but it makes sense since you cannot rip a piece of flesh off a living person like you can with gelatin.
Wound channel may not be synonymous with the amount of energy transferred. If the rounds are traveling at the same speed and same weight hitting the same media. If one goes through the target it hasn't transferred all of its energy to the target. If the other one does stop inside the target then it has transferred all of it's energy to the target. Now because the medium is elastic it can take energy without permanent deformation.
As far as arguing if the gel is a good test medium in comparison to real flesh. Well it's not 100% the same but does allow for a baseline. I do want to more reading on how the experts think the two compare.
As far as arguing if the gel is a good test medium in comparison to real flesh. Well it's not 100% the same but does allow for a baseline. I do want to more reading on how the experts think the two compare.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The gel is a great medium. I'm not during
I'm not arguing that gel isn't a good medium. In fact it is a great medium that produces repeatable results. With gel we can determine that if a bullet expands and travels at least 12 inches, it will also penetrate enough on an average sized human and reach vitals.
We need gel because we cannot test a bullet every time on a body.
What I'm saying is that since gel is softer than a body, the wound circumference isn't accurate just the same as the penetration isn't accurate. It wasn't meant to be.
I'm not arguing that gel isn't a good medium. In fact it is a great medium that produces repeatable results. With gel we can determine that if a bullet expands and travels at least 12 inches, it will also penetrate enough on an average sized human and reach vitals.
We need gel because we cannot test a bullet every time on a body.
What I'm saying is that since gel is softer than a body, the wound circumference isn't accurate just the same as the penetration isn't accurate. It wasn't meant to be.
With the above posts regarding gel tests noted, I'd still say this stuff penetrates like a laser beam. And with what this stuff costs I don't know why anyone would choose it over traditional hollow point ammo. Also not a fan of light for caliber bullets.
The Xtreme Defender is way better and penetrates to 17"
Okay. I'll stick with the Federal HSTs though.
Me too lol. Federal HST 124 have been stellar out of my shield, g43, g26 and g19 in regards to gel testing
mickw
.40 S&W
Where this ammo seems to shine is in .380 ACP. Shooting The Bull got some great results with it during his ballistic gel testing. As long as it feeds reliably in your pistol, it seems to be the best .380 ACP option for self-defense.