Yes, you CAN load a full 30 round mag on a closed bolt

carpediem

carpediem

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
4,232
Location
Peoples' Republic of New York
I have seen it as a problem with the 5 round hunting mags that were brand new and a brand new rifle. Bolt open, no problem. Bolt closed, no go. I tried literally over 100 magazines. I found a small handful that would go in with the five rounds on a closed bolt.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
Bullet Guy said:
Then your rifle needs repair
Click to expand...

I never heard such stupid claim of not taking 30 rounds. This might be the same people who put together a rifle on cheapo
parts over the weekend w/o much idea of what they are doing only to complain when the rifle either short strokes or
runs over-gassed. Never heard of any 30 rounds mags that do not work as advertised perhaps given some conditioning
when they are brand new or simply GI Colt mags that with a simple follower upgrade continue to be the most
reliable on the market under any conditions. I understand the stupid concerns arise but why they even escalate to the level they do.
Reading about stoners design and a bit about the firearm it doesn't take long to really understand how the whole
weapons system works. It is not like rocket science right?
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
22,046
Reaction score
20,634
Location
Orange County
meketrefe said:
I never heard such stupid claim of not taking 30 rounds. This might be the same people who put together a rifle on cheapo
parts over the weekend w/o much idea of what they are doing only to complain when the rifle either short strokes or
runs over-gassed. Never heard of any 30 rounds mags that do not work as advertised perhaps given some conditioning
when they are brand new or simply GI Colt mags that with a simple follower upgrade continue to be the most
reliable on the market under any conditions. I understand the stupid concerns arise but why they even escalate to the level they do.
Reading about stoners design and a bit about the firearm it doesn't take long to really understand how the whole
weapons system works. It is not like rocket science right?
Click to expand...
I guess I'm stupid then because I have run into numerous GI mags that wouldn't seat on closed bolt M16A2's and M4's.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
carpediem said:
I have seen it as a problem with the 5 round hunting mags that were brand new and a brand new rifle. Bolt open, no problem. Bolt closed, no go. I tried literally over 100 magazines. I found a small handful that would go in with the five rounds on a closed bolt.
Click to expand...
The reason is very simple. There might not be any friction and if they have a limiter they might have made it too long and the 5th round doens't allow for any amount of movement. If that is the case all one has to do is shave about 1/8" or so from the contact point in the follower and the mag will work w/o problems.
ASC, Pmag, PRI 10 rounders all work great out of the box. 5 rounders I am not sure they all have them. But the fix is easy.
 
carpediem

carpediem

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
4,232
Location
Peoples' Republic of New York
meketrefe said:
The reason is very simple. There might not be any friction and if they have a limiter they might have made it too long and the 5th round doens't allow for any amount of movement. If that is the case all one has to do is shave about 1/8" or so from the contact point in the follower and the mag will work w/o problems.
ASC, Pmag, PRI 10 rounders all work great out of the box. 5 rounders I am not sure they all have them. But the fix is easy.
Click to expand...
But, these magazines should work properly out of the package. I think the manufacturing tolerances in both the rifle and magazine, when at the edges of tolerances, result in a mag that doesn't seat properly. As I said, I checked well over 100, and some were fine, but very few.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
Willjr75 said:
Military.
Click to expand...
Sorry I din't mean you or anyone to make anyone feel bad.
I am not familiar with Army protocol but from the Marines perspective this is something to be brought up to the armorer's.
I follow up with a couple fo them closely and never heard this complaint and it is not your fault. Either armorers should provide
a solution or in the training they should explain how to check a fully loaded magazine for proper clearance. If the spring is
cramped will not give the extra little amount of tension. Or it could be a follower problem but should never happen on a
healthy magazine. I think the main situation with the military is not being able to get the simple upgrades one gets with
aftermaket parts like a simple inexpeensive superior follower. Magpul for example wtih standard magazines make an almost
perfect magazine for little money.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
carpediem said:
But, these magazines should work properly out of the package. I think the manufacturing tolerances in both the rifle and magazine, when at the edges of tolerances, result in a mag that doesn't seat properly. As I said, I checked well over 100, and some were fine, but very few.
Click to expand...
The problem is most are retrofits of 10 rounders or larger so they are either cut or stamped and that is when they make the mistakes.
I can go and check what I have but the solution is very simple. Fully loaded magazines need to have some play no matter what round.
Some might require to cut a coil like any other weapons system with this problem. Easy to check. I do the same with all my CC weapons
and pistols to make sure the machine didn't screw up. Given the lips are not bent and dragging in bolt or anything else these are
very simple things to resolve. PErhaps a subject for another thread. but if everything is in good condition there is no reason for a magazine
to take what they advertise w/o problems. The original ones are actually 20 rounds GI but the 30 work even better.
Seriously not rocket science here.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
I was thinking magazine manufactures should send some instructions. I guess they save 2 cents from the one page paper sheet it
takes to explain how to check for drag and clearance at full capacity.

Does the explanation helps or should we put a few pictures or a video so people can see how to check for this potential issue?
again, very simple to resolve and it shoudl be part of your check list for preventive maintenance to make sure not just the rifle
but anything that goes with the rifle works as adverised.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
carpediem said:
But, these magazines should work properly out of the package. I think the manufacturing tolerances in both the rifle and magazine, when at the edges of tolerances, result in a mag that doesn't seat properly. As I said, I checked well over 100, and some were fine, but very few.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with all the 5 rounders to be honest but based on my observations many seem like a quick attempt to produce a 5 rounder out of a 10 rounder
and they might even charge more for them. Perhaps what you have is a bit compounding of drag mixed with the magazines a tad out of wack.
This happens a lot when things are new. That is what we expect from the common break in period to get things conditioned by simply metal to metal action.
But sometimes getting a normal looser fit is not enough. We might need to do something extra to help the mags and/or firearm to run looser with more freedom
and w/o drag anywhere. Sometimes cutting one coil off magazines is a simple fix. People worry too much bout magazines loosing spring tension but also springs are sometimes out of wack and put huge pressure totally unnecessary to properly lift the ammo stack and only making things worse.
In other words, I have never seen a healthy spring even after shortening rendered unserviceable. I have cut lots of them for wildcats and then after using them
back in the original rounds I found the firearm seems to run smoother. This is something one might get from a very old mag where the spring lost some of the original tension and gives proper tension sometimes after years and years of use. But it could be a simple follower drag or something else or a combination of two. Again simple things.

I think manufactures do not pay too much attention to specialty items and only what is being sold mainstream in huge quantities. I don't know how much the 5 runders market represent vs. the 10-15 and 30 or more round mags.

One thing I know. I can show you how to make a super reliable magazine form a 10 round in any capacity you want between 10 and 2 and it might be cheaper.
All you need is a stripper clip from lake city and some pliers. You could also use any other metal strip to make a stop or even a rivet but I hate to drill holes in
perfectly ok magazines. No ill effects what so ever. And can use the affordable and reliable ASC if you want.
 
MilesTeg

MilesTeg

.338 Win Mag
U.S. Military
Messages
5,046
Reaction score
6,426
Location
Madison Co.
meketrefe said:
I was thinking magazine manufactures should send some instructions. I guess they save 2 cents from the one page paper sheet it
takes to explain how to check for drag and clearance at full capacity.

Does the explanation helps or should we put a few pictures or a video so people can see how to check for this potential issue?
again, very simple to resolve and it shoudl be part of your check list for preventive maintenance to make sure not just the rifle
but anything that goes with the rifle works as adverised.
Click to expand...

I understand what your talking about but am always interested in picture/videos! so I say do it up!
 
carpediem

carpediem

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
4,232
Location
Peoples' Republic of New York
meketrefe said:
The problem is most are retrofits of 10 rounders or larger so they are either cut or stamped and that is when they make the mistakes.
I can go and check what I have but the solution is very simple. Fully loaded magazines need to have some play no matter what round.
Some might require to cut a coil like any other weapons system with this problem. Easy to check. I do the same with all my CC weapons
and pistols to make sure the machine didn't screw up. Given the lips are not bent and dragging in bolt or anything else these are
very simple things to resolve. PErhaps a subject for another thread. but if everything is in good condition there is no reason for a magazine
to take what they advertise w/o problems. The original ones are actually 20 rounds GI but the 30 work even better.
Seriously not rocket science here.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. I think the legs on the followers were too long and not designed properly so as to give the bolt that little extra compression it needs for the mag to seat. Either that, or the spring was coil bound and not properly set up for the 5 rd. mag. It wasn't really my problem to make them work, just an up or down functional test of "will they seat or won't they seat?" and yes went in one pile and no in another.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
It is such popular platform that every single design issue becomes a common thing starting with the M4 barrel and design that should have never existed.
If you look for broken bolts, loose extensions and uppers, etc.. you will find dozens of reports.
I do think the best thing is to check every magazine and if you find one that doesn't budge fully loaded then take preventive measure
that one should be able to fix in 2-5 minutes.
IMO anyone shipping a new rifle with new magazines should do a bit of QC to make sure everything works including fully loaded magazines.
Unfortunately few do this.
 
Podmonkey

Podmonkey

.577 Tyrannosaur.
U.S. Military
Messages
21,480
Reaction score
29,947
Location
Cambria co. PA
I don't have any problems seating a full 30 under a closed bolt either. This was a thing with older POS GI mags without the anti tilt follower but not with a good modern mag.
 
gun_slinger_boy

gun_slinger_boy

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,475
Reaction score
7,237
Location
Pennsyltucky
My 308 20 round mags are certainly harder to fully seat with 20 vs 19 rounds on a closed bolt. But you just gotta use your big boy muscles to get them to seat fully loaded. If 30 round mags weren't meant to be put in the rifle with 30 rounds then why do they hold 30 rounds? I'm pretty sure the AR's manual of arms doesn't include always having to lock the bolt back to insert a magazine. But I do understand the reasoning behind loading magazines 1 or 2 rounds short.
 
meketrefe

meketrefe

.450/400 Nitro Ex
Messages
12,806
Reaction score
16,330
Location
Dexter, ME
I was looking for a bad magazine and I could not find one. Because I go trough all of them and upgrade followers and
springs if needed they all work fine fully loaded. If anyone has a magazine with issues we can try this to show the
people how to easily fix it. I will keep looking in more boxes to see if I find a bad one.

BTW the GI colt magazines are awesome. The old followers have to go. Once you have a new follower these
magazines become the best magazine you will ever have. Polymer magazines are nice but do not discard good
old aluminum ones so quickly. Most springs should work fine too unless they were bent or abused out of shape
this will cause the coils to stack up cramped and will make huge resistance with the last round, something
we need to avoid.

Also to make sure we stay clear. In NY State, the 30 rounds are only available to LEO, military and others with authorization.
And we thank them for their service but to make sure the average Joe doesn't get all enthusiastic about having also those special privileges ok?

Trump is on our side. Be patient. He might do something to help us out.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top