Should We Blindly Support the Police?

[Saltwater60]

Sure, an illegal order. But clearing a protest that is blocking a road is a legal order. Now it’s matter if you agree with that protesters aims or not. And that’s how a lot of people are determining how they are judging the police . Not legality of their action.

Well see here’s the problem I have. You say following orders is ok if it’s not illegal, but we ignore BLM rioters and protestors, but we don’t the truckers. The truckers did less damage than BLM did. I understand one was told to stand down and not arrest, but the other was said go and arrest them. This is why you’re getting flack. You can’t have it both ways and you’re trying to or advocating for playing both sides.
Let me be 100% clear I don’t envy your position. I was almost a cop, a NYS trooper intact and was denied due to a medical condition. I passed everything and was never scheduled for my medical exam and was then sent a letter saying never apply again. I’m glad I’m not a cop because of what’s going on. I realize you’re in a tough spot now.
Also saying because I don’t write politicians or send in mo why doesn’t mean I do t support the police. My politicians are all liberal shitbags and is useless. I have also donated money to injured cops, a cop local to me was shot and I offered to help in anyway I can. It was spring and I landscape so I offered to get their yard ready for free.

 

[Truebeliever]

So what if the DA wouldn’t prosecute that’s not your job or any other police officers Job to make that decision. The job of a police officers is to arrest people for the crimes they committed with some semblance of dignity and respect if capable. Then to book them in and file the report. The DA can then decide to prosecute and file charges or not.
see what happened in your case is now millions of Americans are blaming the police for inaction. The cops still should have done the job they were hired to do and put it at the feet of the DA to kick them or not. Now you still don’t have the support of the BLM crowd and you’re losing the support of the conservative crowd that supported you. I’m sure my position is easier said than done.

One, they did their job and people are pissed because the DA in Portland, Austin, Los Angeles and Manhattan dropped charges against one side or it had a disproportionate effect on one side as opposed to the other.
Two, the DAs are charging police officers instead of the criminals like what happened in Austin.

Amplify Texas Happy Hour - The Texas Tribune

www.texastribune.org

It also happened in Portland . Numerous times.

Then comes the civilian complaints that are entertained and cops are punished for. Even when the cops were 100% right.

Three, when the DA decides to decline to prosecute what do you think happens in a lot of those cases especially in BLM/Antifa cases ?They sue. Because the DA drops the case based on political reasons but claim the officer didn’t have probable cause or the arrest record is sealed , the perpetrator sues as if he was innocent and the evidence may be sealed with the arrest . So if the officer didn’t keep copies for himself, it isn’t available for the civil suit to defend the officer.
Go google the BLM lawsuits- not qualified immunity covered. They paid out.

 

[Truebeliever]

Well see here’s the problem I have. You say following orders is ok if it’s not illegal, but we ignore BLM rioters and protestors, but we don’t the truckers. The truckers did less damage than BLM did. I understand one was told to stand down and not arrest, but the other was said go and arrest them. This is why you’re getting flack. You can’t have it both ways and you’re trying to or advocating for playing both sides.
Let me be 100% clear I don’t envy your position. I was almost a cop, a NYS trooper intact and was denied due to a medical condition. I passed everything and was never scheduled for my medical exam and was then sent a letter saying never apply again. I’m glad I’m not a cop because of what’s going on. I realize you’re in a tough spot now.
Also saying because I don’t write politicians or send in mo why doesn’t mean I do t support the police. My politicians are all liberal shitbags and is useless. I have also donated money to injured cops, a cop local to me was shot and I offered to help in anyway I can. It was spring and I landscape so I offered to get their yard ready for free.

Your argument isn’t that cut and dry. They did allow police clear streets in Portland and at other times , no. Same with NYC, Austin , Los Angeles,etc. and at other times , no.
Now, how long has the truckers been blocking roads?And the police didn’t move them?
Now, where the real difference is how the Trudeau government is going after them outside the protest like bank accounts etc.That’s not the police department doing that.
Note, even Jan 6. It’s not the police department doing that either .And the FBI aren’t cops and they aren’t liked in almost all LEO circles including other federal agencies.

 

[Saltwater60]

One, they did their job and people are pissed because the DA in Portland, Austin, Los Angeles and Manhattan dropped charges against one side or it had a disproportionate effect on one side as opposed to the other.
Two, the DAs are charging police officers instead of the criminals like what happened in Austin.

Amplify Texas Happy Hour - The Texas Tribune

www.texastribune.org

It also happened in Portland . Numerous times.

Then comes the civilian complaints that are entertained and cops are punished for. Even when the cops were 100% right.

Three, when the DA decides to decline to prosecute what do you think happens in a lot of those cases especially in BLM/Antifa cases ?They sue. Because the DA drops the case based on political reasons but claim the officer didn’t have probable cause or the arrest record is sealed , the perpetrator sues as if he was innocent and the evidence may be sealed with the arrest . So if the officer didn’t keep copies for himself, it isn’t available for the civil suit to defend the officer.
Go google the BLM lawsuits- not qualified immunity covered. They paid out.

For sure. As stated I don’t envy your position. I’m just saying how it looks on the outside looking in and why police are losing support.
Don’t get me wrong this is exactly what the liberals want. They want good cops to retire, quit, or leave so they can replace them with like-minded cronies that will do their bidding. As stated before it sure is a tough spot to be in and I don’t not support the police, but dealings of late have me questioning some things and things are turning IMO. Time will tell and now the democrats like the cops so it might ebb back to where it was for a while. They need you now to stop the killings.

 

[koffeecup]

A badge, a gun and am above the law,,, nope I cannot support that.

 

[Jcp123]

Hell no we shouldn’t just blindly support cops. A lot of the ones where I’ve lived both in CA and TX have been mainly focused on traffic enforcement. Anything between that and murder and they look like Keystone Kops. Many have been straight up dicks, like the Milpitas, CA cop who pulled my (admittedly too loud) Mustang over when a ricer in a Civic was arguably doing an exhibit of speed in the other lane. Ticketed me for not having a front license plate, which he couldn’t have seen from behind where he pulled me over from. Shoulda fought that one, but I was only 17. Had mail stolen from a mailbox at an apartment complex here in Tyler TX; when I suggested he try to lift some prints from the mail (this is a federal crime, after all), he just took it and wrote the case number on one of the envelopes. Another time I saw a motorcycle cop writing a ticket for parking opposite traffic (that is, parallel parking on the left curb and leaving the car facing opposite traffic instead of parking against the right hand curb). I told him, not ironically, that I’d rather he go spend my tax-funded payroll going after [real] criminals, and his only comeback was “your [admittedly rather loud Hawaiian] shirt should be a crime.” A**hole.

On the other hand, I’ve met a lot of really cool cops. One is a regular customer of mine, a state trooper restoring an early 80s pickup mainly for his kids. Great sense of humor, amazing patience for what we can and can’t get, beautiful family, and both the kind of customer you want and a guy you just like having around. I also had a great encounter with an Iowa state trooper when I was trucking. I don’t think I’m blowing up any spots since I believe he’s not a trooper anymore, he called up a buddy at the DOT when I was green and tender as a blade of grass at trucking and had gotten stuck in the snow to bring a salt truck and help me get unstuck. While we waited, he took me drifting in the snow with his cruiser.

At the end of the day, we forget cops are people too. They have a DAMN hard job, one which I don’t envy in the least. I don’t take it out on cops regularly, unless like with the above parking ticket I feel like my tax-funded wages are being abused and I’m in a bad enough mood to say something about it, but I do also think they are often lionized too much, and given a bit too much power/slack/benefit of the doubt. Policing is attractive to folks with a bit of a power trip complex, and I think it’s important to keep them very professional and not leave many outs to exercise that tendency in an abusive way.

Unfortunately, I think BLM’s knee-jerk, ultimately bad-faith activism has given everything related to police and/or criminal justice reform such a bad name that actual good-faith actors engaged in that sphere will be set back by a generation or more in accomplishing effective policy and maintaining a proper balance of civil rights vs. a need for policing.

 

[meketrefe]

Just saw in prime an amateur documentary of katrina before, during, after the storm from someone who had to stay there.
It is called a refuge of last resort.
Must watch

 

[spat]

People sound like the police wanted to be assaulted, and burned out of places . And not be allowed to do anything about it. Then blame the whole profession. There is a reason police departments would not send their cops to Portland. The DA would not prosecute. The feds deputized the cops so they could prosecute when cops were assaulted. That’s how bad it got. And some blame all cops for the actions of the prosecutors and democrat mayors

It doesn't really matter who gave the orders.

At the end of the day in those situations the cops backed the thugs against the decent people.

If BLM burned down your store, they would do nothing. But you can be sure if you attempted to stop them the cops would have come down on you like a ton of bricks.

The fact that they were just following the orders of the shit weasels in charge is irrelevant.

 

[Truebeliever]

It doesn't really matter who gave the orders.

At the end of the day in those situations the cops backed the thugs against the decent people.

If BLM burned down your store, they would do nothing. But you can be sure if you attempted to stop them the cops would have come down on you like a ton of bricks.

The fact that they were just following the orders of the shit weasels in charge is irrelevant.

You have no idea what you are talking about. How would you know how many times cops backed someone in defense of their property or themselves? You wouldn’t . The cops would turn a blind eye to it. It would get listed as unsolved assault, menacing or homicide or such if a report was made.
You have no idea how many times cops have a blind eye to things then get chastised for it by either side of the political spectrum.
BLM riots. Stand down orders were given in some places including where police precincts were burnt down. When arrests were made , the DA dropped the charges . And those criminals made complaints against the officers and they were entertained. Now the next time you read an officer has “ so many complaints “ if the officer gets involved in something controversial, it makes the officer appear guilty. You can guess where they come from. Now add DAs are prosecuting them cops who did get involved. Plenty of examples in Austin, Portland, NYC, Baltimore. .
Go look up how many arrests were made during the BLM riots in NYC. Over a thousand. Go look up the prosecutions. Now add no bail from the “ bail reforms”. Go look up how many were arrested for assaulting cops. Then look up how many were prosecuted. Almost none for the assault .
What has happened is not the police inaction per say . It’s this “ reform” and what the police can do if the DA won’t prosecute under any circumstances.—unless you are a cop. No one gets prosecuted for attempted assault three except cops- yes, that did happen.

You have no idea what cops do, dealing with the “ woke” lawmakers and DAs.

 

[spat]

You have no idea what you are talking about. How would you know how many times cops backed someone in defense of their property or themselves? You wouldn’t . The cops would turn a blind eye to it. It would get listed as unsolved assault, menacing or homicide or such if a report was made.
You have no idea how many times cops have a blind eye to things then get chastised for it by either side of the political spectrum.
BLM riots. Stand down orders were given in some places including where police precincts were burnt down. When arrests were made , the DA dropped the charges . And those criminals made complaints against the officers and they were entertained. Now the next time you read an officer has “ so many complaints “ if the officer gets involved in something controversial, it makes the officer appear guilty. You can guess where they come from. Now add DAs are prosecuting them cops who did get involved. Plenty of examples in Austin, Portland, NYC, Baltimore. .
Go look up how many arrests were made during the BLM riots in NYC. Over a thousand. Go look up the prosecutions. Now add no bail from the “ bail reforms”. Go look up how many were arrested for assaulting cops. Then look up how many were prosecuted. Almost none for the assault .
What has happened is not the police inaction per say . It’s this “ reform” and what the police can do if the DA won’t prosecute under any circumstances.—unless you are a cop. No one gets prosecuted for attempted assault three except cops- yes, that did happen.

You have no idea what cops do, dealing with the “ woke” lawmakers and DAs.

What you don't seem to understand is that none of that matters.

All that matters is that in those cases the cops are a greater threat to good people than the criminals.

Yep, it's the DAs and Mayors, and whoever else that's causing it. But that doesn't matter one bit to the guy you're arresting for defending his business. None of them could do shit without the cops following their orders.

What is the point of having a police union if it's not going to deal with that stuff ?

"Oh, sure they'll defend you if you get sued, but if your entire profession gets perverted by petty tyrants, you're on your own".

 

[Truebeliever]

What you don't seem to understand is that none of that matters.

All that matters is that in those cases the cops are a greater threat to good people than the criminals.

Yep, it's the DAs and Mayors, and whoever else that's causing it. But that doesn't matter one bit to the guy you're arresting for defending his business. None of them could do shit without the cops following their orders.

What is the point of having a police union if it's not going to deal with that stuff ?

"Oh, sure they'll defend you if you get sued, but if your entire profession gets perverted by petty tyrants, you're on your own".

Again , you have little no idea what you are talking about.

How much power does a police union have if they are not allowed to strike? The only police strike in the United States , I know of was in 1973. The Taylor law was passed. A union leader calls for a strike — he is going to be arrested, convicted, out of a police job, therefore out of his union job. Same with illegal job actions. The only legal job action cops in New York can do is follow the rules to the letter. Do all the paperwork, follow all the regulations. The system slows down because if a cop were to follow all the rules, nothing gets done. While the cop is crossing the “t”s and dotting the “I”s, who is responding to emergencies. Yet if something goes wrong, the cop is thrown under the bus for not dotting the “I”s. Every common.

Now you say the cops are worse than the criminals who arrest people who defend their businesses. What do you think happens. The person is taken into custody to determine what happened. Do you think happens or how the police can make someone come to the station house for questioning or to determine what happened - especially if they that person lawyers up? Yep, it’s technically an arrest unless they can have some other way to get them to come— volunteer. Who do you think gets involved now. The DA. The DA makes that decision. The cops don’t do what the DA wants? Possibly official misconduct charges. And the DA has his own LEOs to make the arrest. On both the cops who wouldn’t do it and/or the violator . Furthermore, all of the facts aren’t gathered yet. The arrest is made with probable cause. Business owners have crossed the line too. It’s not as simple as it is later when all the facts are in.
Go look at how cops were not enforcing the mandate. That in most cases in NY was a department of health official. If the police got involved in an arrest for someone not getting vaxed or wearing a mask, it’s because the business owner called them .

Go look up how many people were arrested for mask mandates. It was usually trespass. The business owner’s property rights were enforced. If the business doesn’t want to enforce the mandate, the police don’t care.

Go see how these leaders were arrested. Note cops didn’t go looking for him or even arrest him at the scene .It was an arraigned surrender . Why ?the DA and/or the sheriff wanted it done. And the detective arraigned it rather than put the person thru the system. It was the health department pushing the issue .

Florida megachurch pastor arrested for holding services, defying social distancing orders

The church called its ministry an essential service, just like police and firefighters, and said it would keep its doors open.

amp.usatoday.com

We can go on and on. It is the protesters tactics that are in question, not what they are protesting about. These protestors had days of blocking roads before they weee moved by the police. Just like BLM.

 

[spat]

Again , you have little no idea what you are talking about.

How much power does a police union have if they are not allowed to strike? The only police strike in the United States , I know of was in 1973. The Taylor law was passed. A union leader calls for a strike — he is going to be arrested, convicted, out of a police job, therefore out of his union job. Same with illegal job actions. The only legal job action cops in New York can do is follow the rules to the letter. Do all the paperwork, follow all the regulations. The system slows down because if a cop were to follow all the rules, nothing gets done. While the cop is crossing the “t”s and dotting the “I”s, who is responding to emergencies. Yet if something goes wrong, the cop is thrown under the bus for not dotting the “I”s. Every common.

Now you say the cops are worse than the criminals who arrest people who defend their businesses. What do you think happens. The person is taken into custody to determine what happened. Do you think happens or how the police can make someone come to the station house for questioning or to determine what happened - especially if they that person lawyers up? Yep, it’s technically an arrest unless they can have some other way to get them to come— volunteer. Who do you think gets involved now. The DA. The DA makes that decision. The cops don’t do what the DA wants? Possibly official misconduct charges. And the DA has his own LEOs to make the arrest. On both the cops who wouldn’t do it and/or the violator . Furthermore, all of the facts aren’t gathered yet. The arrest is made with probable cause. Business owners have crossed the line too. It’s not as simple as it is later when all the facts are in.
Go look at how cops were not enforcing the mandate. That in most cases in NY was a department of health official. If the police got involved in an arrest for someone not getting vaxed or wearing a mask, it’s because the business owner called them .

Go look up how many people were arrested for mask mandates. It was usually trespass. The business owner’s property rights were enforced. If the business doesn’t want to enforce the mandate, the police don’t care.

Go see how these leaders were arrested. Note cops didn’t go looking for him or even arrest him at the scene .It was an arraigned surrender . Why ?the DA and/or the sheriff wanted it done. And the detective arraigned it rather than put the person thru the system. It was the health department pushing the issue .

Florida megachurch pastor arrested for holding services, defying social distancing orders

The church called its ministry an essential service, just like police and firefighters, and said it would keep its doors open.

amp.usatoday.com

We can go on and on. It is the protesters tactics that are in question, not what they are protesting about. These protestors had days of blocking roads before they weee moved by the police. Just like BLM.

Simple. If the job becomes evil, you stop doing it. If doing your job makes you the bad guy, then you either stop, or you're the bad guy. "but mah pension and mah mortgage" doesn't make you not the bad guy in that situation.

If the union strikes, what are they going to do, send the police to arrest them ?

Or, you all agree, we'll show up to work, and sit in the station eating donuts all day. If you can ignore the thugs because you're ordered to, then you can ignore the vigilantes too.

What you *don't* to is let the animals over run the city, but enforce the laws against the people trying to stop them.

 

[Truebeliever]

Simple. If the job becomes evil, you stop doing it. If doing your job makes you the bad guy, then you either stop, or you're the bad guy. "but mah pension and mah mortgage" doesn't make you not the bad guy in that situation.

If the union strikes, what are they going to do, send the police to arrest them ?

Or, you all agree, we'll show up to work, and sit in the station eating donuts all day. If you can ignore the thugs because you're ordered to, then you can ignore the vigilantes too.

What you *don't* to is let the animals over run the city, but enforce the laws against the people trying to stop them.

When you take the job , know you will have to do things you disagree with. You will have arrest people you don’t want to. Take domestic violence complaints. If you have cross complainants , under the law at time , the officer would be required to arrest both parties. One is telling the truth that it’s self defense. The DA then decided who they thought was telling the truth without ever seeing them. Later, the law changed and ,the officer could determine who the primary aggressor was. A lot of innocent people got arrested. Same with cross complainants in a fist fight. Often, if the officer can’t determine who started it, both get arrested. That is nothing new.

As far as arresting union leaders , yes, LEOs aren’t a monolithic thing. There are plenty of agencies who would . The NYPD refused to enforce covid mask restrictions. The NYC sheriffs department was brought in. Cuomo thought NYPD cops were giving too many breaks for the HOV lanes, he brought in the state police.
An NYPD union leader was critical of the democrats was recently arrested for allegedly using his union credit card to pay for lunch. Something the union lets him to in large extent. Even if they got him on one count of wire fraud for it, it was an investigation of him in search of a crime . Cops are arrested all the time by other cops, depending on the alledged crime or who is ordering it.

 

[spat]

When you take the job , know you will have to do things you disagree with. You will have arrest people you don’t want to. Take domestic violence complaints. If you have cross complainants , under the law at time , the officer would be required to arrest both parties. One is telling the truth that it’s self defense. The DA then decided who they thought was telling the truth without ever seeing them. Later, the law changed and ,the officer could determine who the primary aggressor was. A lot of innocent people got arrested. Same with cross complainants in a fist fight. Often, if the officer can’t determine who started it, both get arrested. That is nothing new.

If you can trust the justice system to sort that out, then yes, you can't always tell who's who at first.

But, once you can no longer trust the system to sort out the good from the bad, then you have to either stop participating, or you are the bad guy. It's that simple.

 

[Truebeliever]

If you can trust the justice system to sort that out, then yes, you can't always tell who's who at first.

But, once you can no longer trust the system to sort out the good from the bad, then you have to either stop participating, or you are the bad guy. It's that simple.

Anyone who had been working in the criminal justice system for any length of time has little faith it it. And That was before the woke DAs . Money, influence the press, , fame , all influence cases. It usually goes against victims because they give real criminals chance and chance. Regular people, the sentence isn’t usually the problem. It’s the troubles before and after that are the issue. If you are already a convicted felon, a second conviction doesn’t mean as much as a first conviction means to a regular person. You should see who got ROR’d ( no bail) before bail reform.

 

[spat]

Anyone who had been working in the criminal justice system for any length of time has little faith it it. And That was before the woke DAs . Money, influence the press, , fame , all influence cases. It usually goes against victims because they give real criminals chance and chance. Regular people, the sentence isn’t usually the problem. It’s the troubles before and after that are the issue. If you are already a convicted felon, a second conviction doesn’t mean as much as a first conviction means to a regular person. You should see who got ROR’d ( no bail) before bail reform.

Then stop supporting it. Find another job.

 

[Truebeliever]

Then stop supporting it. Find another job.

That is the job. Know it coming in. If you are a Catholic, you might have to make sure an abortion center stays open. Do you think a cop shouldn’t have to help make abortions accessible despite their personal feelings?
That’s one example walking in the door .
Again, these people are getting arrested for their protest tactics, not the protest itself . And not by regular cops unless they break regular laws such as trespass or blocking a road.

 

[spat]

That is the job. Know it coming in. If you are a Catholic, you might have to make sure an abortion center stays open. Do you think a cop shouldn’t have to help make abortions accessible despite their personal feelings?
That’s one example walking in the door .
Again, these people are getting arrested for their protest tactics, not the protest itself . And not by regular cops unless they break regular laws such as trespass or blocking a road.

If you believe abortion is murder, and you're defending the murderers, then you cannot call yourself a "good guy".

It doesn't matter why they're getting arrested, if you know they're going into a justice system that doesn't deliver justice, then you're just a kidnapper.

So, if you know that's the job, and you do it anyway, then you're 100% at fault for the results.

Just like the guy who drove the train to Auschwitz.

 

[Truebeliever]

If you believe abortion is murder, and you're defending the murderers, then you cannot call yourself a "good guy".

It doesn't matter why they're getting arrested, if you know they're going into a justice system that doesn't deliver justice, then you're just a kidnapper.

So, if you know that's the job, and you do it anyway, then you're 100% at fault for the results.

Just like the guy who drove the train to Auschwitz.

Dude, do you still use the court system knowing it’s flaws? Even civil court.
Do you know that innocent people are sometimes arrested. The answer is yes.

Does the us military kill innocent people in combat? The answer is yes. Should no one join the military by your standard.

 

[spat]

Dude, do you still use the court system knowing it’s flaws? Even civil court.
Do you know that innocent people are sometimes arrested. The answer is yes.

Does the us military kill innocent people in combat? The answer is yes. Should no one join the military by your standard.

Military is different. Lots of things are unavoidable in a war that are completely unacceptable in a civil society.

There is also a difference between using a corrupt court system, and delivering innocent people to it.

As it happens though, most good people don't really need the court system. I've never sued anyone. The last time I was in a court room it was for jury duty. They got enough members for their jury before they got to me to question.

That case was a local one in a rural WNY court room. I think justice can still be found there.

I just don't understand how you can serve a system that you believe is even more corrupt than I do ? Does your paycheck mean more than your integrity ?

 

[Truebeliever]

Military is different. Lots of things are unavoidable in a war that are completely unacceptable in a civil society.

There is also a difference between using a corrupt court system, and delivering innocent people to it.

As it happens though, most good people don't really need the court system. I've never sued anyone. The last time I was in a court room it was for jury duty. They got enough members for their jury before they got to me to question.

That case was a local one in a rural WNY court room. I think justice can still be found there.

I just don't understand how you can serve a system that you believe is even more corrupt than I do ? Does your paycheck mean more than your integrity ?

It is like the military in the sense of you know it won’t be perfect. By your standard, no one should join the mil

And it’s not avoidable as you think. Two sides say something else happened. Do you think there is no arrest as result ? It’s cross complainants until more information comes in. The DA makes the choice when that info comes in. They are in charge at that point . Once the arraignment or initial charges are presented to them, it’s in their court, literally.

And what you all corruption , isn’t corruption in the true sense . It’s people who think they are doing right but see things differently. Defense lawyers tend to see the accusation as unfair etc. Prosecutor classically see their role as speaking for justice for the victim. The “ woke” DAs see the criminal as the victim of society.
Judges and DAs make rulings or precedents without a true understanding of what it means or the effect it will have. Or just disagree on what that effect will be. Or have a practical sense of what it takes to fulfill those rulings.
They disagree on what the constitution means . Often an honest disagreement. Until Heller, the 2nd was seen as a collective right of the individual state as opposed to an individual right. Many do honestly believe that . It doesn’t make them corrupt .
You can disagree with covid mandates . There are plenty of cops who are refusing the shot. But the right to protest doesn’t mean you can take over a restaurant who doesn’t want you there. It’s trespass and the cop who couldn’t eat there himself would have to arrest those trespassers.
Do you think cops wanted to escort BLM protesters or neo Nazis who got the parade permits. Protect those who want “ dead cops”. That’s the job.

 

[spat]

It is like the military in the sense of you know it won’t be perfect. By your standard, no one should join the mil

And it’s not avoidable as you think. Two sides say something else happened. Do you think there is no arrest as result ? It’s cross complainants until more information comes in. The DA makes the choice when that info comes in. They are in charge at that point . Once the arraignment or initial charges are presented to them, it’s in their court, literally.

And what you all corruption , isn’t corruption in the true sense . It’s people who think they are doing right but see things differently. Defense lawyers tend to see the accusation as unfair etc. Prosecutor classically see their role as speaking for justice for the victim. The “ woke” DAs see the criminal as the victim of society.
Judges and DAs make rulings or precedents without a true understanding of what it means or the effect it will have. Or just disagree on what that effect will be. Or have a practical sense of what it takes to fulfill those rulings.
They disagree on what the constitution means . Often an honest disagreement. Until Heller, the 2nd was seen as a collective right of the individual state as opposed to an individual right. Many do honestly believe that . It doesn’t make them corrupt .
You can disagree with covid mandates . There are plenty of cops who are refusing the shot. But the right to protest doesn’t mean you can take over a restaurant who doesn’t want you there. It’s trespass and the cop who couldn’t eat there himself would have to arrest those trespassers.
Do you think cops wanted to escort BLM protesters or neo Nazis who got the parade permits. Protect those who want “ dead cops”. That’s the job.

You still don't get it.

It's not about the inability to determine who's guilty on the spot. That will never be able to happen reliably. Of course you're going to have incidents where both parties claim to be the victim and you can't figure it out and have to arrest both.

It's about the inability to trust that the justice system you are delivering them to will be able to deliver justice at all.

No system will be perfect, but "trust the system" is based on the notion that it will deliver a reasonable result the vast majority of the time. If it can't, then it is not a trustworthy system.

If you can no longer "trust the system", then you either don't participate, or you accept that you are just an enforcer for a really powerful gang, and stop calling yourself a good guy.

 

[Truebeliever]

You still don't get it.

It's not about the inability to determine who's guilty on the spot. That will never be able to happen reliably. Of course you're going to have incidents where both parties claim to be the victim and you can't figure it out and have to arrest both.

It's about the inability to trust that the justice system you are delivering them to will be able to deliver justice at all.

No system will be perfect, but "trust the system" is based on the notion that it will deliver a reasonable result the vast majority of the time. If it can't, then it is not a trustworthy system.

If you can no longer "trust the system", then you either don't participate, or you accept that you are just an enforcer for a really powerful gang, and stop calling yourself a good guy.

Show me a justice system that you completely trust. Anywhere in the world. Name it.
So if it’s what you wish it to be, you don’t participate. You don’t want good people to participate and do what they can. And yes, you have to make decisions you aren’t going to like, no different than a job in the military. You do your part the best you can

 

[spat]

Show me a justice system that you completely trust. Anywhere in the world. Name it.
So if it’s what you wish it to be, you don’t participate. You don’t want good people to participate and do what they can. And yes, you have to make decisions you aren’t going to like, no different than a job in the military. You do your part the best you can

It's not about being perfect.

It's about being good enough.

If a system can deliver good justice 95% of the time, and the 5% are honest errors, not "that guy is untouchable so he gets a pass, but that other guy is deplorable, so he's guilty no matter what".

If a system gets to be badly corrupted, then supporting it is bad. You either need to repair it, or you need to get out of the way and let it collapse so we can rebuild something better.

If you're not fixing it, then you shouldn't be supporting it.

I know some towns have good honest systems, While I was still living in Geneseo, the big scandal involving the cops was that they were trading shifts to maximize their overtime. No suggestion that anyone falsified anything, or that anyone got paid for anything they didn't work, just that they were gaming the rules a bit. People got reprimanded for it. When that's the big problem, I can live with it.

The DA and the courts seemed to be reasonably focused on real justice too.

I always had confidence that the county could deliver a just result most of the time. I think you could work there without compromising your ethics at all.

I have no such confidence in the NY state courts.

NYC I can only assume is a wretched hive of scum and villany.

So, if you want a career in policing, make sure you find a department that doesn't make you one of the bad guys.

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Truebeliever]

It's not about being perfect.

It's about being good enough.

If a system can deliver good justice 95% of the time, and the 5% are honest errors, not "that guy is untouchable so he gets a pass, but that other guy is deplorable, so he's guilty no matter what".

If a system gets to be badly corrupted, then supporting it is bad. You either need to repair it, or you need to get out of the way and let it collapse so we can rebuild something better.

If you're not fixing it, then you shouldn't be supporting it.

I know some towns have good honest systems, While I was still living in Geneseo, the big scandal involving the cops was that they were trading shifts to maximize their overtime. No suggestion that anyone falsified anything, or that anyone got paid for anything they didn't work, just that they were gaming the rules a bit. People got reprimanded for it. When that's the big problem, I can live with it.

The DA and the courts seemed to be reasonably focused on real justice too.

I always had confidence that the county could deliver a just result most of the time. I think you could work there without compromising your ethics at all.

I have no such confidence in the NY state courts.

NYC I can only assume is a wretched hive of scum and villany.

So, if you want a career in policing, make sure you find a department that doesn't make you one of the bad guys.

Again, you don’t know what you are talking about. Most cops have no idea or care what happens with the court case. Nor should they . They are supposed to be impartial. And have enough active stuff going on to care .
And feeling like the “ bad guy” can happen at any department where there are court mandates and standards. You aren’t enforcing your morals but the laws and rights interpreted by the courts. These are state and federal courts so it effects all the departments in that state.
You can avoid certain assignments but you can’t avoid them all. I hate writing tickets so I avoided those assignments when I could . That’s when you feel like the bad guy because you can only give so many warnings .
As far as DAs and prosecutions. Are the DAs truly treating them different or is it a dispariting effect. Or is there a difference in the crime or message the DA is sending. A “vigilante “or a cop is going to get a heavier prosecution than a normal person for the same crime. Just a fact. That was even before the “ woke” bs.