Temporary Restaining Order Issued For Concealed Carry Improvement Act (merged thread)

[trnq]

Congrats New Jersey your pile of shit law is found unconstitutional.

Opinion – #34 in KOONS v. PLATKIN (D.N.J., 1:22-cv-07464) – CourtListener.com

OPINION. Signed by Judge Renee Marie Bumb on 1/9/2023. (mag) (Entered: 01/09/2023)

www.courtlistener.com

I got a call from NJ court this morning telling me to come pick up my out of state NJ CCW card next week after roughly 150 day wait (out of 90 day cap according to law). Coincidence? I don't know... In either case, two reasons to celebrate!

 

[maverick52]

I read through the brief. And NY’s strategy is to kill the lawsuit through procedural arguments not the merits. They insist unless someone is actually arrested and charged they are not “suffering imminent injury” - thus lack of standing. They are playing the same game with the Safe Act. No actual arrests so there cannot be a case. The truth is everyone of us is under imminent threat of injury. If I am carrying and have a stroke at the supermarket. I will be charged with a felony when I recover. That’s a threat to me. I guess the question is whether the courts will buy the arguments or not. I noticed for backup they brought up a case of those who were sent letters by Suffolk County for purchasing others at Jerry’s. The judge dismissed their lawsuit because they didn’t have standing. So in their reasoning you don’t have standing until you are arrested and charged. Only then can you litigate while simultaneously fighting criminal charges. The whole thing is a sham. I hope SCOTUS gives NYS a big snack down.

 

[GlockModel29]

I read through the brief. And NY’s strategy is to kill the lawsuit through procedural arguments not the merits. They insist unless someone is actually arrested and charged they are not “suffering imminent death injury” - thus lack of standing. They are playing the same game with the Safe Act. No actual arrests so there cannot be a case. The truth is everyone of us is under imminent threat of injury. If I am carrying and have a stroke at the supermarket. I will be charged with a felony when I recover. That’s a threat to me. I guess the quests whether the courts will buy the arguments or not. I noticed for backup they brought up a case of those who were sent letters by Suffolk County for purchasing others at Jerry’s. The judge dismissed their lawsuit because they didn’t have standing. So in their reasoning you don’t have standing until you are arrested and charged. Only then can you litigate while simultaneously fighting criminal charges. The whole thing is a sham. I hope SCOTUS gives NYS a big snack down.

If Sotomayor doesn't have the integrity to do the right thing, Justice Thomas will lay the lumber to NYS when the application to vacate the stay is re-submitted to him.....

 

[GlockModel29]

If Sotomayor doesn't have the integrity to do the right thing, Justice Thomas will lay the lumber to NYS when the application to vacate the stay is re-submitted to him.....

Don't think for 1 second that SCOTUS isn't watching all these blue states openly thumbing their noses at them and the very recent Bruen decision.....

 

[US RIFLE M1A]

Don't think for 1 second that SCOTUS isn't watching all these blue states openly thumbing their noses at them and the very recent Bruen decision.....

What happened today in Jersey is a win/win for 2A. Two paths are in front of us... one in which the 3rd Circuit leaves Judge Bumb's decision in place, one in which they grant a stay, similar to what the 2nd Circuit did to Suddaby/Sinatra.

In the first scenario, even though it is early in the process, it does create a type of a circuit split, which SCOTUS prefers to see prior to intervening, the second scenario convinces SCOTUS that the coastal (leftist) circuit courts are in rebellion against Bruen and ultimately their (SCOTUS's) authority.

Both scenarios put us closer to resolution. Since the cases (and the judge's favorable opinions) are strikingly similar to one another in what are now THREE judges in TWO separate circuits, the news coming from Jersey today was absolutely huge.

A favorable decision coming from a neighboring Circuit Court as happened today is even better than having yet another pro-2A decision in the Second Circuit.

Also notice that the recent New York pro 2A decisions were used as precedent in Judge Bumb's decision. IIRC she mentioned Suddaby.

 

[GlockModel29]

What happened today in Jersey is a win/win for 2A. Two paths are in front of us... one in which the 3rd Circuit leaves Judge Bumb's decision in place, one in which they grant a stay, similar to what the 2nd Circuit did to Suddaby/Sinatra.

In the first scenario, even though it is early in the process, it does create a type of a circuit split, which SCOTUS prefers to see prior to intervening, the second scenario convinces SCOTUS that the coastal (leftist) circuit courts are in rebellion against Bruen and ultimately their (SCOTUS's) authority.

Both scenarios put us closer to resolution. Since the cases (and the judge's favorable opinions) are strikingly similar to one another in what are now THREE judges in TWO separate circuits, the news coming from Jersey today was absolutely huge.

A favorable decision coming from a neighboring Circuit Court as happened today is even better than having yet another pro-2A decision in the Second Circuit.

I couldn't agree more my friend. Youre very knowledgeable constant input it certainly much appreciated....

 

[US RIFLE M1A]

I couldn't agree more my friend. Youre very knowledgeable constant input it certainly much appreciated....

Anything could happen, and it will take time with occasional setbacks, but ultimately I do not see that the anti-gun politicians in NY and NJ have a path to victory other than stalling until several SCOTUS justices retire or die during a leftist administration.

 

[GlockModel29]

Anything could happen, and it will take time with occasional setbacks, but ultimately I do not see that the anti-gun politicians in NY and NJ have a path to victory other than stalling until several SCOTUS justices retire or die during a leftist administration.

Yes. I often ponder the nightmare scenario of SCOTUS gaining a Liberal majority. I hope and pray I never see it in my lifetime but at some point in the future I'm sure its a good possibility...

 

[GlockModel29]

Yes. I often ponder the nightmare scenario of SCOTUS gaining a Liberal majority. I hope and pray I never see it in my lifetime but at some point in the future I'm sure its a good possibility...

You gotta love how Justice Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett are actually pretty young....Alito doesn't look very old either....Justice Thomas is my favorite one and I hope he's stays healthy and doesn't retire until we get a Conservative president in office. I didn't mention Robert's because he occasionally sticks it to us....

 

[Saltwater60]

Anything could happen, and it will take time with occasional setbacks, but ultimately I do not see that the anti-gun politicians in NY and NJ have a path to victory other than stalling until several SCOTUS justices retire or die during a leftist administration.

They do have a path to victory and that’s to ignore any court ruling and just do as they please or pass a new law. Who will force NYS to follow any court ruling? Will Biden send the national guard like they did in Brown V Board of Ed? Hell no. Scotus has zero enforcement powers to their rulings. NYS a will just find another way. Any win will be short lived at best.

 

[US RIFLE M1A]

They do have a path to victory and that’s to ignore any court ruling and just do as they please or pass a new law. Who will force NYS to follow any court ruling? Will Biden send the national guard like they did in Brown V Board of Ed? Hell no. Scotus has zero enforcement powers to their rulings. NYS a will just find another way. Any win will be short lived at best.

That's not a victory. That's abandoning 232 years of Constitutional jurisprudence and the Rule of Law in favor of rule by raw power and intimidation. Of course it could happen, but that's all they have left.

 

[US RIFLE M1A]

Alito is 72. Thomas is 74.

Roberts late 60s.

The three younger conservatives are in their 50s.

 

[JunkBoxFull]

Until the peoples tax money is taken away from the tyrants that are funding their 2A terrorism, much of the same will continue. Rinse-N-Repeat.

 

[Saltwater60]

That's not a victory. That's abandoning 232 years of Constitutional jurisprudence and the Rule of Law in favor of rule by raw power and intimidation. Of course it could happen, but that's all they have left.

And that’s what the liberals do. They cheat and bend to rules. Yes the Republicans do it too but the liberals are way worse at it. They get away with it too n

 

[Waffles!]

I’m not sure I agree. The Second already granted a motion for an expedited hearing. Briefs are due today. I don’t think they will drag this for years. SCOTUS can vacate the stay or they can put pressure on the Second to move this though fast. The case itself will also move fast. Both Suddaby and Sinatra have shown they have an interest in expediting this as well.

I understand why we can be so cynical and I am cynical as well. But this time I am hopeful. Only time will tell

Has NY filed their Response Brief that was due yesterday (Monday)? If anyone has it, would they please post it here?

 

[Grimscale]

That's abandoning 232 years of Constitutional jurisprudence and the Rule of Law in favor of rule by raw power and intimidation.

At which point all bets are off.
If the .gov cannot even make a pretense of abiding by the rule of Law then they are no longer a .gov, but are tyrannical usurpers.

 

[Truebeliever]

They do have a path to victory and that’s to ignore any court ruling and just do as they please or pass a new law. Who will force NYS to follow any court ruling? Will Biden send the national guard like they did in Brown V Board of Ed? Hell no. Scotus has zero enforcement powers to their rulings. NYS a will just find another way. Any win will be short lived at best.

What will happen is that eventually someone will get arrested for a law that is unconstitutional ( and ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS) and someone will become rich.

 

[Saltwater60]

What will happen is that eventually someone will get arrested for a law that is unconstitutional ( and ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS) and someone will become rich.

Maybe, maybe not. They may get arrested, charged, all guns and related crap taken away and charges to be dropped and good luck getting your stuff back. It’s tax payer money so do they care? Do you think Marrick Garland will do much right now with a civil rights violation based on this?
Civil cases like this have juries too and I’m sure they will find a liberal to side with them. You also have to have the money to bring a suit like this to maybe win. Most will just give up their stuff since it was their dads or they only have one or two guns.
I feel they will Just change the law and make us criminals 10 different ways and it will take years and years to go through the court systems. The will make owning a gun so expensive and complicated that most won’t chose it anymore. Are you ready for liability insurance because it’s next. I’ll bet you’ll need X amount of insurance per firearm and the insurance company will have to have the make, model, serial number and then that list will end up in the government’s hands some how. They aren’t going away and they won’t stop. If we win this battle the next one is already on paper waiting for a few votes and a signature and we will be criminals again soon.

 

[GlockModel29]

Maybe, maybe not. They may get arrested, charged, all guns and related crap taken away and charges to be dropped and good luck getting your stuff back. It’s tax payer money so do they care? Do you think Marrick Garland will do much right now with a civil rights violation based on this?
Civil cases like this have juries too and I’m sure they will find a liberal to side with them. You also have to have the money to bring a suit like this to maybe win. Most will just give up their stuff since it was their dads or they only have one or two guns.
I feel they will Just change the law and make us criminals 10 different ways and it will take years and years to go through the court systems. The will make owning a gun so expensive and complicated that most won’t chose it anymore. Are you ready for liability insurance because it’s next. I’ll bet you’ll need X amount of insurance per firearm and the insurance company will have to have the make, model, serial number and then that list will end up in the government’s hands some how. They aren’t going away and they won’t stop. If we win this battle the next one is already on paper waiting for a few votes and a signature and we will be criminals again soon.

You make some excellent points...

 

[Beerman]

I know we hate wa5ching videos, but this one is actually worth watching. I didn’t see it posted anywhere- if it was, kiss my ass. This guy explains things pretty well, and makes realistic predictions.

 

[livingston]

Listen To Our Podcast - WYSL NewsPower 1040

www.wysl1040.com

Paloma Capanna Esq.
34 minute mark she talks about 2 lawsuits she has filed at supreme court

 

[camper4lyfe]

I know we hate wa5ching videos, but this one is actually worth watching. I didn’t see it posted anywhere- if it was, kiss my ass. This guy explains things pretty well, and makes realistic predictions.

I just got done watching that video. I think I much prefer his videos over the rest that have been going around and he comes off as much less of a blowhard. He doesn't use inflammatory words to make things sound more than they are, and gets to the point without the fluff.

 

[maverick52]

I know we hate wa5ching videos, but this one is actually worth watching. I didn’t see it posted anywhere- if it was, kiss my ass. This guy explains things pretty well, and makes realistic predictions.

That video was fantastic. I hope that GOA uses the same arguments he did before the courts. He eviscerated AG James. Thanks for that.

 

[spat]

Some can't leave their abuser, unfortunately, so they are put into something like this...

That photo is exactly why you do not let them disarm you.

 

[maverick52]

Has NY filed their Response Brief that was due yesterday (Monday)? If anyone has it, would they please post it here?

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22A557/251449/20230105103816229_SCOTUS%20reply%20complete%20FINAL.pdf

 

[nortatoga]

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22A557/251449/20230105103816229_SCOTUS%20reply%20complete%20FINAL.pdf

I think he meant a reply to the 2nd Circuit not the SCOTUS.

 

[John Stark]

That's not a victory. That's abandoning 232 years of Constitutional jurisprudence and the Rule of Law in favor of rule by raw power and intimidation. Of course it could happen, but that's all they have left.

With all due respect, what you claim "could happen" has in fact already happened. Demscum have used base, naked, ruthless political power and ambition to get what they want to reshape this nation since the turn of the 20th century from the Woodrow Wilson administration to the present. Republicans have since at least WW2 mounted almost no effective or Constitutional remedies to slow the rot, let alone claw any of it back, and over time have basically abandoned our Constitutional order as long as the money and perks accrue to themselves while they serve as "representatives."

Its called a "march through the institutions," and they have been very successful in entrenching themselves in every key institution in our nation, whether that be purely governmental or cultural/social/business institutions. This is why we have seen a century of the Feds and States taking over control of everything from education, the "environment," and medicine, to big business like the auto industry and other manufacturing, to farming, trucking, energy production, and on and on. The Feds and States have moved from merely "regulating" to "controlling" nearly every aspect of our lives, whether we're talking about business matters through the power to tax to social/cultural matters.

Don't believe me? How did the government force both "non-essential" businesses (read: most businesses that were not huge corporations) AND churches and other places of worship, along with other social/recreational venues such as family gatherings, weddings, bars amd restaurants, including PUBLIC parks(!) during the Covid lie? That shit went on for 3 years, and in some parts of the country still is. Politicians wanted to follow the example of other nations during the WuFlu madness and open concentration camps here in the United States.

If that is not raw, naked tyranny and bold, ruthless disposal of our Constitutional order, at the hands of the elitist scum who think they own us and this nation, what the fuck is?

Justice has been perverted, and "Constitutional Jurisprudence" and the "Rule of Law" already have been mostly abandoned for "raw power and intimidation."

Or has that brutal act of vile tyranny that JUST HAPPENED simply slipped out of the consciousness of the People already? WTF!

 

[US RIFLE M1A]

With all due respect, what you claim "could happen" has in fact already happened. Demscum have used base, naked, ruthless political power and ambition to get what they want to reshape this nation since the turn of the 20th century from the Woodrow Wilson administration to the present. Republicans have since at least WW2 mounted almost no effective or Constitutional remedies to slow the rot, let alone claw any of it back, and over time have basically abandoned our Constitutional order as long as the money and perks accrue to themselves while they serve as "representatives."

Its called a "march through the institutions," and they have been very successful in entrenching themselves in every key institution in our nation, whether that be purely governmental or cultural/social/business institutions. This is why we have seen a century of the Feds and States taking over control of everything from education, the "environment," and medicine, to big business like the auto industry and other manufacturing, to farming, trucking, energy production, and on and on. The Feds and States have moved from merely "regulating" to "controlling" nearly every aspect of our lives, whether we're talking about business matters through the power to tax to social/cultural matters.

Don't believe me? How did the government force both "non-essential" businesses (read: most businesses that were not huge corporations) AND churches and other places of worship, along with other social/recreational venues such as family gatherings, weddings, bars amd restaurants, including PUBLIC parks(!) during the Covid lie? That shit went on for 3 years, and in some parts of the country still is. Politicians wanted to follow the example of other nations during the WuFlu madness and open concentration camps here in the United States.

If that is not raw, naked tyranny and bold, ruthless disposal of our Constitutional order, at the hands of the elitist scum who think they own us and this nation, what the fuck is?

Justice has been perverted, and "Constitutional Jurisprudence" and the "Rule of Law" already have been mostly abandoned for "raw power and intimidation."

Or has that brutal act of vile tyranny that JUST HAPPENED simply slipped out of the consciousness of the People already? WTF!

I don't think you and I disagree on anything. Except for possibly a choice of wording. My 'could happen' refers to passing yet another a law after the CCIA is struck down, not all the egregious crap they have thrown at us in the past several years.

I know that's not 'could' it is 'most certainly did' happen. I saw it with my own eyes.

We have no disagreements on any of the issues in your post.

 

[Truebeliever]

Maybe, maybe not. They may get arrested, charged, all guns and related crap taken away and charges to be dropped and good luck getting your stuff back. It’s tax payer money so do they care? Do you think Marrick Garland will do much right now with a civil rights violation based on this?
Civil cases like this have juries too and I’m sure they will find a liberal to side with them. You also have to have the money to bring a suit like this to maybe win. Most will just give up their stuff since it was their dads or they only have one or two guns.
I feel they will Just change the law and make us criminals 10 different ways and it will take years and years to go through the court systems. The will make owning a gun so expensive and complicated that most won’t chose it anymore. Are you ready for liability insurance because it’s next. I’ll bet you’ll need X amount of insurance per firearm and the insurance company will have to have the make, model, serial number and then that list will end up in the government’s hands some how. They aren’t going away and they won’t stop. If we win this battle the next one is already on paper waiting for a few votes and a signature and we will be criminals again soon.

They will try all of that but it will not pass muster.
Civil cases are decided by juries . And when a jury sees someone who got a permit but was arrested anyway on a law that was known to be unconstitutional before it was enforced, they tend to react— liberal or not.
Judges also are known to immediately fine police departments who enforce a law that has already been declared unconstitutional. Just based on the arrest charge and nothing else. And the person arrested can still sue on top of that .
Give it some time. The walls are coming down. New York will be a real shall issue state .

 

[Saltwater60]

I know we hate wa5ching videos, but this one is actually worth watching. I didn’t see it posted anywhere- if it was, kiss my ass. This guy explains things pretty well, and makes realistic predictions.

I like the videos because I travel a lot for work and watch them while I drive. I stop between appointments, check in here and key up a video.