Manchester, England: Another Day, Another BOMBING

[Darth]

That's not how it works. Humans lay in the bed we make for ourselves.

So then payer literally does nothing whatsoever.

We agree there!

 

[ECU Pirates]

Remember the conversation that some of us had yesterday. Sometimes having a prayer is the only thing some have to offer in such a horrible time.

Not a bad thing.

I don't think sincere prayers are posted on social media. That's just my opinion though....

 

[GOPerfect]

So then payer literally does nothing whatsoever.

We agree there!

For many, it is only for comfort.

 

[ECU Pirates]

For many, it is only for comfort.

It might comfort Darth if you pray for him. Heathens like him act like they don't need prayers, but we all know he does. Look at his "dearth's insane thoughts" thread. He needs lots of prayers haha haaaaaaaa

 

[Podmonkey]

So then payer literally does nothing whatsoever.

We agree there!

I didn't say that, and that is not true. I have seen for myself, in very dramatic fashion that prayer does have an effect. I merEly mean to say that it is not up to us which and where what prayers are answered. As the song goes, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try some time you get what you need". I used to be a diehard atheist you know, far more outspoken than you my friend. But then at a time when prayer was all I had left, I prayed for, and received a dramatic and very, incredibly, tangible miracle.

 

[Podmonkey]

Most people, including those that partake, do not understand the nature of prayer.

 

[CaseHardened]

I'm headed to, you know, dozens of RAP CONCERTS this summer.

So MUSLIMS, bring your Suicide Belts and just try to off me.

Mostly I have front row seats.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Scientists Find One Source of Prayer’s Power

Darth has no self control. He needs to pray.

 

[Darth]

I didn't say that, and that is not true. I have seen for myself, in very dramatic fashion that prayer does have an effect. I merEly mean to say that it is not up to us which and where what prayers are answered. As the song goes, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try some time you get what you need". I used to be a diehard atheist you know, far more outspoken than you my friend. But then at a time when prayer was all I had left, I prayed for, and received a dramatic and very, incredibly, tangible miracle.

If not getting what you want doesn't prove that payer doesn't work, but rarely getting something that you attribute to payer working proves that it does as long as you ignore when it doesn't, it's not exactly a completing argument.

I'm just well beyond sick of the same way this plays out with every single one of these weekly terror attacks. Time to move on from "praying for X" and to start "doing Y." Clearly what is going on now around the weird isn't working.

 

[Podmonkey]

Scientists Find One Source of Prayer’s Power

Darth has no self control. He needs to pray.

Look, you can't waggle your finger at an aethist and expect to get a positive response. Hubris is an unChristian trait.
I understand the logic behind aethisim. Aethisim is based on logic. But the universe is not a logical place.

 

[Darth]

For many, it is only for comfort.

I get comfort from helping out in more tangible ways.

There are those out there tonight providing tangible help to those affected by this. That's where I'd focus.

 

[GOPerfect]

Funny, all on the Mainstream Media is taking about this attack, except CNN.

They are discussing the Comey story. They are talking about the likeness of him being fired and the cover up of Iran-Contra.

Wow, talk about out of touch!

 

[Darth]

She said she cancelled the rest of the tour. How generous. Now she can go back to hating America and Americans.

 

[GOPerfect]

I get comfort from helping out in more tangible ways.

There are those out there tonight providing tangible help to those affected by this. That's where I'd focus.

Absolutely, people offering water, tea and a place to stay the night. Awesome things going on. For those that cannot assist in that way, kind words, thoughts and prayers are all that can be offered.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Look, you can't waggle your finger at an aethist and expect to get a positive response. Hubris is an unChristian trait.
I understand the logic behind aethisim. Aethisim is based on logic. But the universe is not a logical place.

You mistake my trolling Darth as serious posting.

 

[Podmonkey]

If not getting what you want doesn't prove that payer doesn't work, but rarely getting something that you attribute to payer working proves that it does as long as you ignore when it doesn't, it's not exactly a completing argument.

I'm just well beyond sick of the same way this plays out with every single one of these weekly terror attacks. Time to move on from "praying for X" and to start "doing Y." Clearly what is going on now around the weird isn't working.

There can't be an argument because there isn't logic to it. All I can say is that I thought in the same way as you until I received a miracle at a time in my life where I needed one desperately. This didn't happen to you, it happened to me so I can't expect it it to be a compelling argument to you can I? But I don't need it to be. I know what I know and that is all I need and all there is. My prayer is that should you have an epiphany someday that you don't have to suffer so much for it. But suffering and salvation is its own reward too, so who am I to ask your denial of that?
The existence of human free will is at the crux of all this. Free will is the greatest gift and the most terrible curse.

 

[Darth]

There can't be an argument because there isn't logic to it. All I can say is that I thought in the same way as you until I received a miracle at a time in my life where I needed one desperately. This didn't happen to you, it happened to me so I can't expect it it to be a compelling argument to you can I? But I don't need it to be. I know what I know and that is all I need and all there is. My prayer is that should you have an epiphany someday that you don't have to suffer so much for it. But suffering and salvation is its own reward too, so who am I to ask your denial of that?
The existence of human free will is at the crux of all this. Free will is the greatest gift and the most terrible curse.

And I personally feel it's completely disgusting to think that there is a religion out there that teaches you if someone doesn't believe what you do because an all powerful God can't be bothered to provide any tangible evidence if it's existence, then you should suffer for all eternity if you don't have an "epiphany."

I live my life as a good person. If I burn in hell for that, it's an abhorred religion I want no part of anyway. So I'll take my chances.

 

[GTN]

For many, it is only for comfort.

For many it's a way to make them self feel good. Does no good but at least they feel good about themselves

 

[Podmonkey]

And I personally feel it's completely disgusting to think that there is a religion out there that teaches you if someone doesn't believe what you do because an all powerful God can't be bothered to provide any tangible evidence if it's existence, then you should suffer for all eternity if you don't have an "epiphany."

I live my life as a good person. If I burn in hell for that, it's an abhorred religion I want no part of anyway. So I'll take my chances.

That's not how the afterlife works either. You see it as something punitive but it is quite the opposite. No one is stopping you, not whichever church or clergy nor God, from obtaining salvation. You already have it, now. The idea is that you simply need only to accept it. But you have free will, you can choose to accept or refuse at your own discretion, you are free to belive whatever you wish to. All choices have consequences, it's the nature of this existence, but the choice is yours to make and that is fair at least.
God will not provide tangible proof of his existence because to do so would destroy free will. If God, an omnipotent, omniscient entity, came before all humanity and said "Here I am" would not the rational course of action be to fall to ones's knees in worship even if only in appeasement?
God doesn't want that, God wants us to accept him, to be loved by us, of our own accord, on faith or otherwise the act is empty. Therfore God cannot give himself away by becoming directly involved. Constant direct divine intervention would be equally harmfull, just as a parent must eventually let the child go into the world to live their own life and to make their own mistakes so to has God done to us. It's the paradoxical nature of the universe. Without sorrow there can be no joy, good only exists in relation to evil, light can only be judged against darkness, which is merely th absence of the former, just as the perception of cold is merely the absence of heat. There are no absolutes, everything is relative without faith. It is the anchor that keeps us spinning into the maelstrom of infinite degrees. None of which you find compelling no doubt. I don't begrudge your dubiousness, I'm just trying to paint the portrait of my worldview for you. But beyond our perception lies the truth and no one really knows what it is because it is beyond our comprehension. But I think, I have this strong feeling, that I got a tiny peek at it in my moment of agonized despair and subsequent salvation. I can only describe it as an epiphany. It is not something I mean to dangle mockingly in front of you or anyone, for it is as much a source of unease as comfort. It has certainly changed me though. It's really beyond description.

 

[lotsofammo]

 

[holdover]

Ten bucks says it wasn't a ducking pressure cooker bomb

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I have a bunch of relatives over in the U.K., and have met most of them.

Sorry to say it, but they have a long road ahead of them,- if they are not severely fucked already.

Short of a very bloody and uncivil war that results in forcing the goat fuckers out, they are screwed. What happened tonight will likely be a very early shot in that direction.

Murdering, maiming, and terrorizing utterly innocent and happy children will only increase the process.

 

[spat]

Instead of (or in addition to) offering prayers, maybe we should be offering them arms so they can defend themselves against the invading hordes. It helped in the early days of WWII.

Last time we did that the Brits confiscated all of them after the war was over....

 

[spat]

Would have been a more viable option in my view for the payer to work before the slaughter of innocent people, but what did I know?

The people who believe in prayer also believe that what happened to those people before today is a drop in the bucket compared to whats coming, so the prayer would still be timely. If they are right, nothing that happens here matters much, except how you react to it.

 

[Darth]

That's not how the afterlife works either. You see it as something punitive but it is quite the opposite. No one is stopping you, not whichever church or clergy nor God, from obtaining salvation. You already have it, now. The idea is that you simply need only to accept it. But you have free will, you can choose to accept or refuse at your own discretion, you are free to belive whatever you wish to. All choices have consequences, it's the nature of this existence, but the choice is yours to make and that is fair at least.
God will not provide tangible proof of his existence because to do so would destroy free will. If God, an omnipotent, omniscient entity, came before all humanity and said "Here I am" would not the rational course of action be to fall to ones's knees in worship even if only in appeasement?
God doesn't want that, God wants us to accept him, to be loved by us, of our own accord, on faith or otherwise the act is empty. Therfore God cannot give himself away by becoming directly involved. Constant direct divine intervention would be equally harmfull, just as a parent must eventually let the child go into the world to live their own life and to make their own mistakes so to has God done to us. It's the paradoxical nature of the universe. Without sorrow there can be no joy, good only exists in relation to evil, light can only be judged against darkness, which is merely th absence of the former, just as the perception of cold is merely the absence of heat. There are no absolutes, everything is relative without faith. It is the anchor that keeps us spinning into the maelstrom of infinite degrees. None of which you find compelling no doubt. I don't begrudge your dubiousness, I'm just trying to paint the portrait of my worldview for you. But beyond our perception lies the truth and no one really knows what it is because it is beyond our comprehension. But I think, I have this strong feeling, that I got a tiny peek at it in my moment of agonized despair and subsequent salvation. I can only describe it as an epiphany. It is not something I mean to dangle mockingly in front of you or anyone, for it is as much a source of unease as comfort. It has certainly changed me though. It's really beyond description.

It's always just a game of moving the goalposts when it comes to religion. The "free will" excuse is a popular one that really doesn't stand up to any scrutiny given the fact that those same people say that God has everything planned out. Then the goalposts just change to something else. It's all the same circle.

Maybe someday people will see it, but given history, I doubt it. This will just continue unabated. Fact is 19 people are dead now and a God somewhere just looked on and said "can't be bothered." Sad.

 

[livingston]

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Funny, all on the Mainstream Media is taking about this attack, except CNN.

They are discussing the Comey story. They are talking about the likeness of him being fired and the cover up of Iran-Contra.

Wow, talk about out of touch!

Let nothing get in the way of destroying and underming the administration! Forward!

 

[Darth]

22 dead.

 

[Blimey]

Mark my words....

England is going to shut down. They are going to shut down there borders. They are going to close up shop and deal with these threats behind closed doors. They are very near their breaking point.

I have a dimmer view on their ability to do anything. Better chance than the rest of Europe, which is past the point of no return, but broadly they see these kinds of things as just a cost worth paying for multiculturalism and the benefits of generous immigration policies.

 

[Blimey]

The main result of this attack will be the creation of a new twitter campaign called #ManchesterStrong, so that people can take a few precious seconds from their day to "express solidarity". Hashtag campaigns really make terrorists shake in their boots, and they help bring justice to people maimed and the families of people killed. Maybe even some shirts sold on cafepress. Condemnation from world leaders.

And that's it. Once we find out this was an islamist, the appetite from the media for this event will aggressively wane.