How long do y'all typically carry? What is the longest time you've carried?
I would STRONGLY advise, since you are not an LEO (neither am I) where you will get "OJT", as it were, that you take some training that involves force-on-force. Minimum, IMHO, would be southnarc's ECQC course. MDTS is another good option.
An unloaded sidearm is an expensive impact weapon. You will not have time to load it, if you need it, ever.
Finally, a scenario: say you're walking down the sidewalk, lets say......East side of the 'Cuse near the James St/Midler Ave intersection. You spy some urban yutes headed at you. Right, you avoid by crossing the street. But,........so do they. You cross again, and......once again they cross to your side (actually, it's their side, since it's their 'hood).
It's getting a little dicey, sooooo......you unholster your sidearm and rack the slide. I'm not a lawyer, but you just "premeditated", IMHO.
Four hours ago at home when you got dressed and holstered a loaded weapon? - it wasn't. It was caution.
My $0.02, IMHO, YMMV.....
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Honestly, I expect the most likely scenario for me would be ROAD RAGE.
I'd certainly have time to set the Safety and Rack the Slide then.
And NUMBER ONE: Always, always carry Pepper Spray and strongly consider using it FIRST.
Uzi
.308 Win
Not a good idea and you cannot predict what is certain. Thinking in a tactical sense when carrying and always being situationally aware of everything you can is best. Assuming what specific scenario you'll be involved in that hasn't happened yet is not a good strategy.
To be honest, I carried for the first year without a round in the chamber. I always knew there was no advantage other than a fear of the gun somehow going off. I realized the carry gun I have was designed like most to have a round in the chamber. In a real world scenario when the gun needs to be drawn and used, not having a round in the chamber is a very very bad idea, nothing else to it. The failure rate of racking a gun while under extreme stress is much harder to do than most people realize. Short stroking the slide is very likely in fact. If you have some time, go and check out an instructor out of Arizona "active self protection" on youtube and you can check out all of the real world videos that have people put into a very bad place because they didn't have a round chambered or should have. I know it might be difficult and scary to do, but with some knowledge about why it's recommended it can go a long way. It took me a year to figure out it all out and to find the trust in myself and firearm, but I always carry it chambered now. Following the proper safety protocol and getting into the habit of what's rational and irrational will help you overcome that fear. One thing I read long ago was that, if you don't trust the firearm, you're not ready to be carrying one, and that's very true. Getting into a false habit is not a good way to excel forward. Carrying unchambered leads to laziness in firearm safety being that your unchambered firearm is treated like an unchambered firearm. In order to utilize your handgun properly, it should be actively functional when it's needed. I look back now and I knew if I kept going with that, I would have been taking more steps backwards and not doing any good for myself.
I understand what you're thinking. And I'm not being rude or an asshat. However, read about the classic FBI gunfight of 1986.
From the article:
"Unfortunately playing bumper cars with Platt and Matix had caused problems for the agents as well. Manauzzi had placed his Smith & Wesson .357 on the seat next to him in anticipation, but the sudden stop sent it flying, he was now unarmed. Ben Grogan’s eyeglasses were also sent flying, which he needed to see with. He was now nearly blind."
The 1986 Miami Shootout: The gunfight that changed law enforcement nationwide
You probably don't read as many news reports as I do about gun owners who inadvertently shoot themselves.
I do a lot of work that requires crawling, twisting, etc. Occasionally I discover the Magazine Catch released, and the Magazine partly out.
To me it's not a stretch of the imagination from that to the Trigger being pulled accidently.
So it will take me longer than you to fire my gun, if need be. I can live with that.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those gun owners are careless. That's why they have negligent discharges. They pull the trigger without checking the chamber. They holster their firearms into cheap holsters that bend into the trigger guard.
If you are one of those guys then you need training so you don't do that. To not get the training and carry on an empty chamber so that you can be unsafe is irresponsible.
I go hiking in the summer. I crawl on rocks. I bang my holster around when doing so. A kydex holster makes it impossible for something to pierce it and pull the trigger.
I share your concerns about NDs, I really do. However in the unlikely event you need your gun you are not going to have enough time to rack the slide. Most defensive shootings, the overwhelming majority in fact, occur just beyond arms length. Perhaps you might consider a DA/SA with a manual saftey? Such would be highly ND resistant. The CZ subcompact Rammi is available with a safety I belive.
Not picking at all...
Each man does what each man does. You mentioned about how many stories you read about ND's, I could tell you almost the same amount of stories about people being robbed and not being able to do anything about it because their gun was unloaded.
Again, do what is safe for you.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
I've carried for days on end more than a few times. My EDC is a Shield 9 in a N82 Tactical Pro IWB holster. Comfortable as hell. Even right now I'm at about almost 32 hours straight after I dozed off on the couch last night watching a movie with the kiddos. Took it off briefly for a CMP match this morning and shower before and after. Longest continuous time ever was 4 straight days camping over Columbus Day weekend a few years ago in October. No clothing change, no showers, holster never came off even to sleep.
If you're not carrying with one in the chamber, carry a revolver. Most shootings are quick and only involve a few rounds. Better to carry in a way that is comfortable to you yet still meets the criteria of most gun fights than to carry what is effectively an empty firearm.
In the usual "Night Club", "Movie Theatre", even "School" shootings there was certainly ample time for an Armed Citizen to Lock-N-Load.
There problem was their guns were still sitting at the local gun shop, because they never bothered to even buy them. Let alone Ankle Carry.
BTW, I was at a "Gun Free" zone tonight - The Boston Opera House.
I didn't carry because with the price of tickets there was no way I was going to jeopardize my evening.
The doormen did have wands. After passing thru I watched them for a few minutes, out of curiosity.
No women were wanded - not even those in pants. They checked every handbag, though.
Probably half the men were wanded - always half-heartedly, and the wands never reached the ankles. Just below the knees at worst.
But any man with IWB or Shoulder-Carry would have been caught if wanded.
I must have "THE LOOK", as I was wanded.
Mebe it's the HAT.
There problem was their guns were still sitting at the local gun shop, because they never bothered to even buy them. Let alone Ankle Carry.
BTW, I was at a "Gun Free" zone tonight - The Boston Opera House.
I didn't carry because with the price of tickets there was no way I was going to jeopardize my evening.
The doormen did have wands. After passing thru I watched them for a few minutes, out of curiosity.
No women were wanded - not even those in pants. They checked every handbag, though.
Probably half the men were wanded - always half-heartedly, and the wands never reached the ankles. Just below the knees at worst.
But any man with IWB or Shoulder-Carry would have been caught if wanded.
I must have "THE LOOK", as I was wanded.
Mebe it's the HAT.
Well, a couple of points.
George Zimmerman had "one in the pipe" - YES.
But even after he had initiated contact with a potential perp, he certainly did not take any precaution. Really let his guard down.
If I was ole George, I would have had plenty of time to access my weapon and prepare it. Mebe even slip it into my pocket for ready use.
But with the same outcome - the FAKE NEWS would be showing the perp's Baby Pictures, and I'd end up wishing I was dead.
As I stated earlier in this thread, everyone makes their own choices. I, like many here, choose to carry a loaded gun for when the unexpected happen.
Crime is all around us, it surrounds us. These Mutts will jump on any chance to take what is yours.
Crime is all around us, it surrounds us. These Mutts will jump on any chance to take what is yours.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Good luck with unloaded ankle carry in a situation like this.....
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You are looking at only certain scenarios on purpose to try to rationalize your poor choice. What happens when you don't have time? What happens when you leave Walmart and while walking to the car, a guy pops out from in between cars to rob you? Are you going to tell him to hold on while you chamber your empty gun? What happens when at a red light a car jacking occurs?
It's ridiculous. Many here are trying to be nice about it so as to not hurt your feelings. I don't roll that way. I respect you but I will tell the truth so that someone else reading this who may consider carrying in this method can see why it's not a good idea.
Go get some training and a better holster. For you to rationalize that it's a better method of carry and that you are so aware of your surrounding and have plenty of time that nothing can ever happen to you is either naivety, or a flat out lie. No professional ever carries in that method. Ever. Not only are you being unsafe to yourself, you are endangering others around you when your gun gets taken from you. There is no way in hell you have the time to chamber a round when the perp is right on top of you.
It's ridiculous. Many here are trying to be nice about it so as to not hurt your feelings. I don't roll that way. I respect you but I will tell the truth so that someone else reading this who may consider carrying in this method can see why it's not a good idea.
Go get some training and a better holster. For you to rationalize that it's a better method of carry and that you are so aware of your surrounding and have plenty of time that nothing can ever happen to you is either naivety, or a flat out lie. No professional ever carries in that method. Ever. Not only are you being unsafe to yourself, you are endangering others around you when your gun gets taken from you. There is no way in hell you have the time to chamber a round when the perp is right on top of you.
Sure, Zimmerman had all the time in the world.
However, when I was stabbed literally in the heart, spent over 2 weeks in the hospital and had 2 surgeries to repair the damage, I had a few seconds.
Unfortunately I did not have a gun at that time.
Thinking back and talking to friends that witnessed it, if I did have a gun the guy would have been dead and my injury may not have happened.
Like someone here already mentioned, MOST self defense situations happen in seconds.
Think about it.
If you were going to rob someone and only had a knife.
Would you pull the knife 20 feet away and say "stick 'em up", or would you casually approach and surprise your victim?
In a "road rage" situation you would probably be fine, especially if you followed the law and drove away.
However, in the other 99% of defense situations you are at a severe disadvantage.
There are a bunch of videos online people here have posted of people trying to rack their guns in time of need. I'll try to find some.
In at least 2 of them the victim dies when their gun jams because heat of the moment adrenaline makes them fumble.
Unless you are very, very, very experienced in hand to hand confrontation, you WILL fumble too.
In at least 2 of them the victim dies when their gun jams because heat of the moment adrenaline makes them fumble.
Unless you are very, very, very experienced in hand to hand confrontation, you WILL fumble too.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And even if you don't fumble, while trying to rack the slide perfectly, you get stabbed in the heart.
It's just not enough time when the attacker is right on you.
Word!!
I carry everywhere it is legal to do so. Typically, I am carrying from the moment I get dressed after rising, until my pants come off to either shower or get into bed. And even then, my EDC is no more than 3' away from me.
As for the longest I have ever carried, was 6 days straight during a blizzard, with no power or heat, - my clothes stayed on, and so did my gun.
When I first began carrying, I was hesitant about carrying with one in the pipe. It took me almost a year before I got fully comfortable with it. I watched a lot of videos of attacks and how fast they happened. Those alone made me realize the folly of carrying unloaded. But the other thing I did was to make sure I carry in a good holster, - and I began practicing drawing and then firing, - not just firing at targets.
Also, when you look at all of the DGU's that occur out there, I don't think that any of us can say with any certainty or likelihood what type of an incident might befall us. So, would I ever carry unloaded again? HELL NO!
As for the longest I have ever carried, was 6 days straight during a blizzard, with no power or heat, - my clothes stayed on, and so did my gun.
When I first began carrying, I was hesitant about carrying with one in the pipe. It took me almost a year before I got fully comfortable with it. I watched a lot of videos of attacks and how fast they happened. Those alone made me realize the folly of carrying unloaded. But the other thing I did was to make sure I carry in a good holster, - and I began practicing drawing and then firing, - not just firing at targets.
Also, when you look at all of the DGU's that occur out there, I don't think that any of us can say with any certainty or likelihood what type of an incident might befall us. So, would I ever carry unloaded again? HELL NO!
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Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
in a good holster?
wow....post the articles then.
and do you think a walthar with paddle release will do that?
i have carried my G19 and PPS with paddle release in all types of holsters and never have had that happen.
guess i'm lucky......!?!?!?!?????
Armyman 73
.38 Special
I am surprised that none of the vets chimed in, but mine was at 9 month in the DS/DS 1911 strapped by my side,lol
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Meh, mid-October. Weather was 40's at night, 60 or so during the day. Never would have worked in the middle of August.
I'm certain that the folks that advise carrying "one in the pipe" are well advised to do so themselves given their experiences, jobs, or lifestyles.
But for me, meh. Although I train with my firearm with Snap-Caps on a regular basis, so as to remain confident in its function, I believe I am far more likely to fire my firearm accidentally than in anger.
And if someone comes at me out of the blue - I'm toast. I realize that.
Or if some Muslim decides to bomb me, I'm going to be a casualty anyways.
No. My firearm is only for a slo-mo event, such as a Movie Theatre massacre, or a Riot where I'm cornered and hemmed in.
And in those cases any discharge from me is likely to be only a bit of payback to the perps, because I'm going to outnumbered anyways.
I'd better be focused on making those pitiful six rounds from a .32ACP count !
GETTING BACK TO THE INITIAL THREAD, yes, I carry pretty much every moment I'm outside my home, and a great deal of the time inside as well.
And if my Seecamp weren't so small, and light, I wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't bother.
But for me, meh. Although I train with my firearm with Snap-Caps on a regular basis, so as to remain confident in its function, I believe I am far more likely to fire my firearm accidentally than in anger.
And if someone comes at me out of the blue - I'm toast. I realize that.
Or if some Muslim decides to bomb me, I'm going to be a casualty anyways.
No. My firearm is only for a slo-mo event, such as a Movie Theatre massacre, or a Riot where I'm cornered and hemmed in.
And in those cases any discharge from me is likely to be only a bit of payback to the perps, because I'm going to outnumbered anyways.
I'd better be focused on making those pitiful six rounds from a .32ACP count !
GETTING BACK TO THE INITIAL THREAD, yes, I carry pretty much every moment I'm outside my home, and a great deal of the time inside as well.
And if my Seecamp weren't so small, and light, I wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't bother.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So you don't trust yourself even with the safety on?
Why not a .22 Mag revolver? It's smaller than a Seecamp.
And train until you are confident enough to know that you will not fire your weapon accidentally.