the big old debate ... .223 hunting and home defense

[Acer-m14]

Also is a good idea to cerrosafe your chamber to see where your lands are ??
asking since i reload and haven't really looked at copper or brass pills yet ..
i know they are longer to make up the weight .. bolt gun here and friends have AR's

also looking for your feedback on this video .. i wish they would have mentioned twist rate of each gun , i'm still fuzzy on that ..

 

[Bananabandit]

I will not watch this video for 2 reasons. Eric. And that cheesy line. Not a LOTR fan, but cmon.

But my opinion of such topic at 4am is...depends on living area. anywhere but rural is out of the question. Apparently some kid just got hit by a 9mm through walls and shit. 223 will go even farther.

So hunting, fine. HD..no. Unless its SHTF, not a chance.

 

[Plater1]

I will not watch this video for 2 reasons. Eric. And that cheesy line. Not a LOTR fan, but cmon.

But my opinion of such topic at 4am is...depends on living area. anywhere but rural is out of the question. Apparently some kid just got hit by a 9mm through walls and shit. 223 will go even farther.

So hunting, fine. HD..no. Unless its SHTF, not a chance.

I agree, 5.56 for home defense is stupid. A shotgun is a MUCH better choice.

 

[Acer-m14]

if you watch the video its on a copper defense round , not all pills are made the same .. really ... .. thru a wall and limited penetration on the bad guy on the other side and at 4am is because i work 4pm to midnight or 2am when should i post ???

 

[Bananabandit]

if you watch the video its on a copper defense round , not all pills are made the same .. really ... .. thru a wall and limited penetration on the bad guy on the other side and at 4am is because i work 4pm to midnight or 2am when should i post ???

I was saying my response is based on the time. Not that youre stupid for postibg at 4am

 

[Acer-m14]

I was saying my response is based on the time. Not that youre stupid for postibg at 4am

then go get some sleep or something hehehee .. you may not like Eric , heck i don't really care for Yankee marshell but both do have there good points at times ..

 

[Bananabandit]

then go get some sleep or something hehehee .. you may not like Eric , heck i don't really care for Yankee marshell but both do have there good points at times ..

Hes too commercially now...and lesser love for it. My opinion, though!

 

[Acer-m14]

Hes too commercially now...and lesser love for it. My opinion, though!

what gun channel isn't on you tube or any , we all want to make some $$$ .. demolition ranch , outdoor ranch , and his vet chan
even the girl junior shooters .. .. at least the info it getting out there, my opinion too .. and we agree to do not and move on ..

NEXT!! but i have to go hit the bed .. 4pm to 2am today lol ..

 

[Podmonkey]

I will not watch this video for 2 reasons. Eric. And that cheesy line. Not a LOTR fan, but cmon.

But my opinion of such topic at 4am is...depends on living area. anywhere but rural is out of the question. Apparently some kid just got hit by a 9mm through walls and shit. 223 will go even farther.

So hunting, fine. HD..no. Unless its SHTF, not a chance.

I agree, 5.56 for home defense is stupid. A shotgun is a MUCH better choice.

Nope, the opposite is true. The small, high velocity bullet of .223/5.56 starts to tear itself to pieces when it hits something, it varies with the specific load of course but overall presents less penetration than handgun or shotgun ammunition. That combined with its greater terminal effect and the fact that many arms chambered thusly are compact, light, and handy makes it and ideal defensive round. The only issue indoors is the high blast and flash produced.

 

[Frankly]

99% of mall ninjas will be deaf, blinded, and disoriented after the first shot.

 

[Criticalt]

If I had to choose one of my guns and get rid of the rest, id choose my 1960s 870 Wingmaster with both barrels.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Nope, the opposite is true. The small, high velocity bullet of .223/5.56 Starts to tear itself to peices when it hits something, it varies with the specific load of course but overall presents less penetration than handgun or shotgun ammunition. That combined with its greater terminal effect and the fact that many arms chambered thusly are compact, light, and handy makes it and ideal defensive round. The only issue indoors is the high blast and flash produced.

100 percent correct.

 

[Bananabandit]

99% of mall ninjas will be deaf, blinded, and disoriented after the first shot.

Whatd you say?

 

[Podmonkey]

99% of mall ninjas will be deaf, blinded, and disoriented after the first shot.

I don't think you'd notice the effects of indoor 5.56 fire so much in the moment. You would afterwards. After all unsuppressed 5.56 carbines are used indoors all over the world. Maybe it would be handy to have some earpro on or near the bedside table?

 

[Frankly]

Idk I suspect a baseball bat or golf club with some experience and self-control trumps the most glorious weapons... Most of what I see is people arguing gear when they probably should be thinking of more realistic scenarios and how to overcome inevitable mistakes.

Any middle of road gun you already have is going to work fine, pros and cons to everything so why not spend the energy on training? And/or a watchdog? Or move to a better neighborhood rather than wasting time spitballing over gun pornography?

 

[Podmonkey]

Idk I suspect a baseball bat or golf club with some experience and self-control trumps the most glorious weapons... Most of what I see is people arguing gear when they probably should be thinking of more realistic scenarios and how to overcome inevitable mistakes.

Any middle of road gun you already have is going to work fine, pros and cons to everything so why not spend the energy on training? And/or a watchdog? Or move to a better neighborhood rather than wasting time spitballing over gun pornography?

But if one has a choice why not select the best tool for the task?

 

[SteyrAug]

solving over penetration is solved by using the right ammo a 7/8 oz load of 8s will settle an intruders hash and wont kill your neighbor as will 00 buck.

 

[Marine Cpl]

But if one has a choice why not select the best tool for the task?

Because people make choices based on emotion.

 

[Phazer]

I agree, 5.56 for home defense is stupid. A shotgun is a MUCH better choice.

Hollow-point .223 self-defense rounds.

My wife can certainly put several rounds on target with an MSR before she could get a 2nd round on target with a 20-gauge shotgun. She's a fine shot with her .380 and 9mm pistols. She'd certainly reach for a pistol or an MSR before a shotgun.

 

[SteyrAug]

AND 40 grain Varmagedons will kill right now w/o over penetration.

 

[Cooolone]

Home defense is simple... 9mm, .233, don't matter... It's still a tiny little hole compared to the spread buckshot has... You have to be more accurate when fine motor skills evaporate (home defense), shotgun, just be in general direction. Even if you wing em', the follow up finishes the job!

Shotty for home defense, you can't loose!
; )

 

[SteyrAug]

At typical home defense ranges buckshot hardly spreads at all. Farther away it does and every pellet that missed the bad guy is a potential lawsuit when it sails off into space.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Home defense is simple... 9mm, .233, don't matter... It's still a tiny little hole compared to the spread buckshot has... You have to be more accurate when fine motor skills evaporate (home defense), shotgun, just be in general direction. Even if you wing em', the follow up finishes the job!

Shotty for home defense, you can't loose!
; )

That's not necessarily true. A .223 will stretch the cavity way bigger than the round itself.

 

[Podmonkey]

Home defense is simple... 9mm, .233, don't matter... It's still a tiny little hole compared to the spread buckshot has... You have to be more accurate when fine motor skills evaporate (home defense), shotgun, just be in general direction. Even if you wing em', the follow up finishes the job!

Shotty for home defense, you can't loose!
; )

You really belive that? In this day and age? Go pattern your shotgun at 10 yards. Then you'll see that Aim Small Miss Small applies to shotguns at across the room distance as well.

 

[Airborneguy]

In this day and age, I wouldn't even out shotguns in the conversation.

Realistically, my 9mm Glock 19 or 26 will be my home defense guns. In the event that I had good notice, I'd absolutely choose my .223 pistol. I've considered keeping it under my bed actually, but for legal and lawsuit reasons, I prefer to stick to the 9's.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Check out this video if you think a shotgun spreads and you don't need to aim. Go to 530 in the video.

 

[Podmonkey]

In this day and age, I wouldn't even out shotguns in the conversation.

Realistically, my 9mm Glock 19 or 26 will be my home defense guns. In the event that I had good notice, I'd absolutely choose my .223 pistol. I've considered keeping it under my bed actually, but for legal and lawsuit reasons, I prefer to stick to the 9's.

Shotgun still stupid effective. Just understand and train to its limitations.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Shotgun still stupid effective. Just understand and train to its limitations.

Only at close range with shot. A relic in my opinion.

 

[Phazer]

Shotgun still stupid effective. Just understand and train to its limitations.

The last two shotgun courses that I took showed me that inside of 5 yards, almost any load will have a serious impact, at 10 yards buckshot makes the most sense, and at longer ranges slugs work reliably. Since I don't plan on using slugs at home, and most engagements would be at 3 to 7 yards, I'd want something like #4 buck if I was to use a shotgun for defense. But...the courses also showed me how loud shotguns with 18-20" barrels really are. So, although I finally consider myself fascile enough with a self-defense shotgun (after about 600 rounds from many different positions, including one-handed) to use one if needed, I'd much prefer a pistol, MSR, or pistol-caliber carbine.

 

[Podmonkey]

The last two shotgun courses that I took showed me that inside of 5 yards, almost any load will have a serious impact, at 10 yards buckshot makes the most sense, and at longer ranges slugs work reliably. Since I don't plan on using slugs at home, and most engagements would be at 3 to 7 yards, I'd want something like #4 buck if I was to use a shotgun for defense. But...the courses also showed me how loud shotguns with 18-20" barrels really are. So, although I finally consider myself fascile enough with a self-defense shotgun (after about 600 rounds from many different positions, including one-handed) to use one if needed, I'd much prefer a pistol, MSR, or pistol-caliber carbine.

Given a 30 round mag the AR has it all over a shotgun but if limited to a 10 round magazine, I think the AR still has the edge but the gap is narrower. I still put the 590A1 to use in my home defense plan. Most notably its sitting in the corner when I am cleaning/maintaining the primaries. Or If I've had the PPQ and AR to the range and am too lazy to get to them that evening I'll just toss the mossy under the bed for the night. In the home pistol, carbine and shotgun are complimentary, it doesn't have to be an either/or situation.