I don't think there is any level of performance that can justify $10 though.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I'll sell you a shotgun slug for $10. It will probably work better than that gimmicky pos too.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I predict crappy penetration and crappy weight retention. But it will make huge splashes in milk jugs and soda bottles.
10 yard effective range? Haha!
10 yard effective range? Haha!
I too was completely shocked by the price. If I had that kind of money to embed in the berm I'd send .50 BMGs.
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GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
someone's always trying to improve something that doesn't need improving 
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
It sucks if you miss your target.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
I never said I was buying any. I haven't even shot my shotgun in 2 years. I'm too busy stocking up on 5.56 and 9mm.always remember PT Barnum
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
4excal
.338 Win Mag
The FUDDS will flock to these to show off their "look at me, look at meeee" skills. Probably already on backorder
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
I'll pass.
Bob
6.5 Creedmoor
This.
Sending a 1-ounce chunk of lead downrange at nearly 2000 fps is pretty damned destructive, and it sends one hell of a message.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Penetration is all that matters. This round is a gimmick just like the ones they make for pistols.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Except this isn't 1 ounce and once it hits and breaks up, it'll penetrate very shallow just like birdshot.
We will find out when he actually tests it, I'll post it he does.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You guys are blinded by expansion and so called energy dump/ stopping power. It's a myth. Energy dump does nothing. Expansion does nothing It's penetration that kills.
Do you ever notice what happens when people get shot with birdshot? They get all that energy dump from the birdshot (that is more than pistol rounds by the way) with just a few inches of penetration leaving nothing but a big, shallow hole.
What happens? Nothing. You get gruesome shallow wounds. The huge amount of energy dump does nothing. The shallow penetration does nothing. Vitals aren't hit. Many people survive point blank hits from birdshot.
Carry a round that penetrates to vitals in both a shotgun and a pistol. Look at that fat guy that got shot with .40 S&W hollow points that failed to reach vitals. Energy dump and expansion did nothing to stop him immediately.
Do you ever notice what happens when people get shot with birdshot? They get all that energy dump from the birdshot (that is more than pistol rounds by the way) with just a few inches of penetration leaving nothing but a big, shallow hole.
What happens? Nothing. You get gruesome shallow wounds. The huge amount of energy dump does nothing. The shallow penetration does nothing. Vitals aren't hit. Many people survive point blank hits from birdshot.
Carry a round that penetrates to vitals in both a shotgun and a pistol. Look at that fat guy that got shot with .40 S&W hollow points that failed to reach vitals. Energy dump and expansion did nothing to stop him immediately.
I think you are taking things to extremes, if by energy dump you are referring to hydrostatic shock. Any object intersecting with a fluid body, like the living body of humans, will generate waves of kinetic energy radiating out from the path of travel. However living tissues are highly elastic and the hydrostatic waves generated by typical defensive pistol loads are not enough to rupture tissues. At the centerfire rifle level the hydrostatic shock is enough to begin rupturing tissue. Also if a strong enough wave hits the CNS it can cause disorientation and even a loss of consciousness. I imagine 12 gauge slugs generate enough terminal energy fornsimilar effects. The ballistics tests I've seen suggest that standard foster slugs will indeed rapidly fragment but the fragments retain enough mass to provide adequate penetration. Some of the segmemted slugs marketed for SD do not however. Since copper deforms less than lead this slug may provide the requisite penetration though I seriously doubt its any improvement over the typical foster slug. Personally, when it comes to defensive ammo, I select loads that have been proven effective in law enforcement/military use. That is why I use 9 pellet buckshot, 124gr +P HSTs, 77gr OTM 5.56 and why I'm dabbling in the 64gr Gold Dot 223s.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
How is that extreme? Notice I didn't include rifles in the mix that go well above 2000 fps and most of the time penetrate both sides of a body while expanding.
I'd seriously reconsider those HST's or any hollow point for that matter. If I did have to pick one, it would be be the Critical Duty that penetrates 22 inches in gel but even then I feel it's not enough on certain individuals. I've done a lot of research on hollow point wounds in police shootings in the past few weeks and they look no different than what a solid bullet would do except for the fact that they don't always penetrate vitals and mostly stop half way through a human body. Those wounds look nothing like they do in gel and don't penetrate the amount they do in gel. It isn't supposed to.
That fat guy took over 20 .40 S&W shots in the chest that failed to reach his vitals. I couldn't find what ammo it was but dollars to donuts says that it was one of the big three manufacturers that have the best reputations. It was a leg shot followed by a head shot that took him down. He was just too damned big. Those hollow points did their job but not on him. On me they would have reached my heart or spine. Not on that big boy though.
Had it been solid bullets that quote unquote "overpenetrate", like they've done countless times throughout the years when the military used them in their 1911's and the police used them in their .38 Specials, he'd have gone down sooner as those would have gone through both sides of his body striking vitals.
Shots missed which happen at almost every major shooting are all overpenetrators. Overpenetration was never an issue before hollow points were invented. You are supposed to know your target and beyond. If a solid bullet or plugged up hollow point overpenetrates, it's velocity is reduced compared to a flat out miss going at full speed.
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Then don't miss
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Anything but depleted uranium is for chumps!
Uzi
.308 Win
Setting aside the OP for a second.
You might find that there are people of all sizes and shapes, weaknesses, strengths, levels of tolerability, additional physical or mental attributes, under the influence of drugs etc. that will overcome or succumb to any bullet type used over a period of time. Carrying a typical carry handgun is a tool to help protect you. There is no single answer for all outcomes and there are certainly never any guarantees. Safety is a concern in public and neighboring areas, no exceptions. The lack of it is also the reason that many children are getting struck and killed by flying cheap ball ammo fired off in chicago from gangs across the block as they pass right through their homes and into the bedroom. Any pass through from a threat that hits a friendly also is 100% worse than when it doesn't, I'm sure many would agree. To say expansion passing internally through flesh does nothing is just.... man it's very incorrect. Fighting a war is different than neutralizing or mitigating an unorganized unplanned threat in a surrounding populated area of citizens unknown to any potentials of immediate collateral damage. I've seen more than enough examples of small shootouts to establish the basis that many hits with handguns/revolvers unless critically placed do not show consistent outcomes outside of vital areas. I think the name "controlled chaos" is an excellent name to describe the intent of solid slugs VS other defensive ammo types. This leads me into what some civilians believe; a philosophy that when they carry, they're carrying to "shoot to kill". The whole idea is to eliminate a threat, if that means killing that's fine, but if you can get yourself, family and others clear of a threat, you should probably focus on that primarily. If you're out to shoot to kill as the focus of defense, carrying a handgun is your second mistake. Having said that, I personally think the police handled that situation awfully. They're lucky it ended they way it did.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
spat
.950 JDJ
1/2 oz steel, 50grns red dot in a cavity, and a 209 primer in the tip.
Probably not legal in NY, but better terminal performance than that thing, for sure.....
Would be like setting off a hand grenade *in* the target......
Probably not legal in NY, but better terminal performance than that thing, for sure.....
Would be like setting off a hand grenade *in* the target......
Uzi
.308 Win
My post referred to more subject matter than the whole "over penetration" thing.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Wow. Trash in every category.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Why no no ballistic gel to measure real penetration?
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
I don't like gel tests, the results will never be the same as a human (or other) body. Well, unless they start adding ribs in the mix. Hitting bone is going to severely change the results.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
That would have been more impressive if they were able to get some center hits on their targets.
Ive never seen something tumble in less than 10 yards before. I think they're really on to something. If they make it in .410 for the Judge, it will officially be the most worthless ammo ever.
Ive never seen something tumble in less than 10 yards before. I think they're really on to something. If they make it in .410 for the Judge, it will officially be the most worthless ammo ever.