Marine's To H&K We'll Take 50K More M27 Please !
- Thread starter GOYABEAN
- Start date
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I don't see the benefit for the extra $2k a piece.
Cureforcancer
.223 Rem
H&K? German nazi guns? Omg!!! that is racist. We need to take down the US military and destroy these guns.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don't either. 1 per fireteam like they've been fielding is enough. Perhaps they just want uniformity.
8lbs?! Is that with a full mag? My rifle weighs 6.2 lbs empty.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It has a 16.5 inch barrel, picatinny quad rails, an integrated bipod, and other doohickeys like a full sized rifle buffer system.
None of which is needed in an infantry carbine.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
This system was supposed to be for an Automatic Gunner/ Designated Marksman. Now they'll all have it.
Never been a fan of HKs AR patterns. Too heavy, too expensive for too little (if any) benefit.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Who cares right? if one is going to get a short stroke piston this is the one to get and our
troops only deserve the best.
overtime we will see 100rd magazines and extra uppers that with the reduced weight and added firepower
will only provide benefits for the job.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
This is just another AR right? What am I missing here?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yes it is like an ar on the outside.
Internals is what make them apart.
Same like any high end system
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If they want free float hand guards, a 16.5 inch barrel, and a pistol system, why not just get new uppers for their existing lowers?
You see? These are non gun guys who are Generals making decisions. Don't ever think that because the military or police use something, it is the best. The decision to get something is always made by someone who doesn't know shit.
Yes. The internals are better but they still do the same job.
You see? These are non gun guys who are Generals making decisions. Don't ever think that because the military or police use something, it is the best. The decision to get something is always made by someone who doesn't know shit.
Yes. The internals are better but they still do the same job.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Can other systems do the same in many situations? yes
Can other systems do the same in all situations? No
The SS piston and overall quality sets them apart in terms of heat specially the bolt
and extreme situations like after being submerged in water.
4excal
.338 Win Mag
Meh. I guess if the government can spend $500,000 on seeing if beer makes a college age gay or lesbian more drunk, then let them have a rifle that shoots 50 more yards. Both are useless and never gonna be used for anything important, until time for a new idea..
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It's not worth the price. If money is no option, sure why not? But obviously it is if they can't afford to outfit the entire service. The M16a2's and a4's worked just fine after being submerged in water after many practice beach landings.
If they really truly needed it, an upper would suffice. These are the same generals who would not put a collapsible stock on M16a4's years ago because some old dude didn't like the fact that a collapsible stock would affect drill ceremony in bootcamp.
Now these same old dudes think it's a completely different rifle when it's not and want to buy some. All it is is a piston system, free float handguards, and a collapsible stock that works on a rifle length buffer system.
The big issue with any AR piston gun, Including HK's, is regardless of claimed measures there is always eventual wear at the rear of the lower receiver at the extension. Then the rifle is done.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The Marines did. The M27 replaced it due to its full auto capability. Now they want to outfit every Marine with one.
Wasn't meant to run on box mags. That was only ever an emergency provision. They ran great on belts for me.
Shows my age! LOL
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
You mean they're not using 03's anymore? Huh.
Robin
Robin
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
When you consider what you get in the box is not expensive.
Those optics alone are almost 1/2 of the cost. Same with the LMT weapons system.
The H&K never jams that is why they are so popular. They are not more accurate but
they run cooler and can take a lot more heat due to the SS piston.
Still they need to be well lubed and maintained like anything else.
Plus one also pays for the service that is amazing for any customers specially military.
FN sucks dick to military and LE but if you are private you are screwed. they suck at that.
Nobody can beat glock at that even with their reasonable price points.
Those optics alone are almost 1/2 of the cost. Same with the LMT weapons system.
The H&K never jams that is why they are so popular. They are not more accurate but
they run cooler and can take a lot more heat due to the SS piston.
Still they need to be well lubed and maintained like anything else.
Plus one also pays for the service that is amazing for any customers specially military.
FN sucks dick to military and LE but if you are private you are screwed. they suck at that.
Nobody can beat glock at that even with their reasonable price points.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Optics are separate if I'm not mistaken.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The M27 is an integral weapons system so they are issued an optics pouch with each of them.
H&K is not cheap but neither is the SAW and you get a superior, more accurate product.
We cannot say a good DI system might not be a good system but the H&K has proven itself for this role.
M27 First Impressions - The Firearm Blog
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
LMT's L129A1... another amazing piece of machinery.
It leaves others (some more expensive) in the dust.
It leaves others (some more expensive) in the dust.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The other thing is that they have been carefully planning this for many years and looking at the
tactics other marines are using with lighter and more accurate platforms like these exercises with
the Marines from Spain...
US, Spanish Marines train together in Sierra del Retin > Marine Corps Forces Europe > News Article Display
There is always a trade off but all gunners favor the 13lbs weight reduction from the heavy saw.
Even the lighter spanish minimi at 18lbs is not as effective as a more accurate DSS like H&K can provide.
One doesn't need so much gun and so many bullets to get more hits and closer to the enemy.
36 RPM + 800 is plenty with some new tactics.
Going from 4-5moa to 1.5-2MOA is a huge thing and any marine is going to bet on accuracy vs. higher rate of fire. Effectiveness comes first.
tactics other marines are using with lighter and more accurate platforms like these exercises with
the Marines from Spain...
US, Spanish Marines train together in Sierra del Retin > Marine Corps Forces Europe > News Article Display
There is always a trade off but all gunners favor the 13lbs weight reduction from the heavy saw.
Even the lighter spanish minimi at 18lbs is not as effective as a more accurate DSS like H&K can provide.
One doesn't need so much gun and so many bullets to get more hits and closer to the enemy.
36 RPM + 800 is plenty with some new tactics.
Going from 4-5moa to 1.5-2MOA is a huge thing and any marine is going to bet on accuracy vs. higher rate of fire. Effectiveness comes first.
Accuracy is not particularly desirable for automatic suppresive fire. It is more desirable to have a larger beaten zone.
What are the Marines going to do when all the M27 receivers are shot after 50k rounds?
Besides, a true comparison can't be made between a belt fed, quick change barrel proper machinegun and an automatic carbine.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I and I would bet almost every SAW Gunner that has actually ran with one would probably agree that you are more effective at the fireteam level without a SAW. The SAW Gunner slows the fireteam down. He cannot really engage in room clearing. He has a harder time climbing walls, going through windows, ECT.
The automatic fire that is rarely used at the firetream level is still there with the flick of a switch. The M240's are also right behind them anyway with 7.62.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Accuracy is always preferable for the marines and the suppresive fire concept changes to small bursts with more precision.
There is a bit of trade off between the psychological effect of machine fire sound for smaller burst with a higher hit ratio.
Also keep in mind this is not to totally replace the SAW in the squad but to give more effectiveness to the teams with one of
this for every 5 men. In the end of the day it opens a window to new tactics and it drastically reduces the weight in long
missions that this translates into more firepower and higher efficiency and effectivness.
100 rounders have been tested as well as the 150rd SAW Armatac drum so they are coming to help the gunners.
Read the combat reports..
M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle - Wikipedia