This chaps my damn biscuits. FCC repeals 'Net Neutrality'

NirvanaFan

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Willjr75 said:
So are they struggling now where changes have to be made where Darth is going to have to pay 20 bucks more a month to post his nonsense on the rainbow 6 thread?

If Darth pays that extra 20 bucks, will the hospital that isn't struggling now struggle even less?
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Has Darth ever had to pay more to post in his Rainbow 6 thread? Nope, you're just saying what might happen. I'm talking about actual things that NN actually does. You're talking hypotheticals. NN says that all packets have to be treated the same, and that's BS.

I'm saying that the hospital should be able to pay more to prioritize their traffic if they enter into a mutual agreed upon contract with their ISP. The government shouldn't even be involved in this.

Having a low latency connection is important in some applications, and it's not in others.

Live video or audio? important
streaming from Netflix? not important (this is why you have a buffer)
playing Rainbow 6 online? important
playing solitaire online? not important
trading stocks? important
sending email? not important

Why is it wrong to prioritize traffic?
 
Darth

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Rainbow Six, Check.

Buffalo Bore. Check.

Where else will he go?

:D
 
NirvanaFan

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serious question @Willjr75 and I don't mean for this to sound negative, so please don't take it that way.

Do you know the differences between bandwith, throughput, jitter, latency, and error rate? Most people have no clue what each of those terms mean, and it's important to know when talking about network performance.


prioritizing traffic is an entirely different issue from network speed.
 
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NirvanaFan said:
serious question @Willjr75 and I don't mean for this to sound negative, so please don't take it that way.

Do you know the differences between bandwith, throughput, jitter, latency, and error rate? Most people have no clue what each of those terms mean, and it's important to know when talking about network performance.


prioritizing traffic is an entirely different issue from network speed.
Click to expand...
I have an idea but I'm no expert. If allowed to search those terms in detail on the internet without having to pay more than I can afford, I can get back to you. But if I'm limited to just Facebook and Snapchat with the bottom tier, I won't be able to. You'll have to wait until I go to the library and hope that they have a book on that that isn't checked out by someone else or hope that all the computers aren't taken and hope the library has full access and is open 24 hours a day.
 
NirvanaFan

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Willjr75 said:
I have an idea but I'm no expert. If allowed to search those terms in detail on the internet without having to pay more than I can afford, I can get back to you. But if I'm limited to just Facebook and Snapchat with the bottom tier, I won't be able to. You'll have to wait until I go to the library and hope that they have a book on that that isn't checked out by someone else or hope that all the computers aren't taken and hope the library has full access and is open 24 hours a day.
Click to expand...

You still haven't addressed network prioritization at all, which is probably my biggest gripe about NN. You keep going back to the "they'll charge me more for Facebook" argument.
 
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Willjr75 said:
I have an idea but I'm no expert. If allowed to search those terms in detail on the internet without having to pay more than I can afford, I can get back to you. But if I'm limited to just Facebook and Snapchat with the bottom tier, I won't be able to. You'll have to wait until I go to the library and hope that they have a book on that that isn't checked out by someone else or hope that all the computers aren't taken and hope the library has full access.
Click to expand...
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NirvanaFan said:
You still haven't addressed network prioritization at all, which is probably my biggest gripe about NN. You keep going back to the "they'll charge me more for Facebook" argument.
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I get what you are saying. I also get that it's a non issue. Hospitals aren't getting bogged down by people playing rainbow 6. Those people will pay for it anyway and stay up all night playing it instead of going to sleep to rest for work in the morning.

My biggest beef is that if tiered pricing goes into effect, then people who can't afford it or those who just want to save a buck will be stuck on the bottom tier that only includes social media. People will get even stupider than they are now. They won't be able to research unless they pay for all access.

All this because of a non issue. Then the internet providers are going to throttle down there competition. So if you are on Verizon and they want you to use their face time messaging service that costs 10 bucks extra a month, they'll throttle down Facebook's version which is free.
 
Darth

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Willjr75 said:
I get what you are saying. I also get that it's a non issue. Hospitals aren't getting bogged down by people playing rainbow 6. Those people will pay for it anyway and stay up all night playing it instead of going to sleep to rest for work in the morning.

My biggest beef is that if tiered pricing goes into effect, then people who can't afford it or those who just want to save a buck will be stuck on the bottom tier that only includes social media. People will get even stupider than they are now. They won't be able to research unless they pay for all access.

All this because of a non issue. Then the internet providers are going to throttle down there competition. So if you are on Verizon and they want you to use their face time messaging service that costs 10 bucks extra a month, they'll throttle down Facebook's version which is free.
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God bless you sir.

J/k

I personally can't fathom a god, as I'm sure you can't personally fathom an existence in which a mythical issue pops up and can''t even be made into reality (which in itself is a paradox) because of, well, anything.

An imaginary "free market is ad" view does not gain any traction with "free market is bad" responses.

:ROFL:
 
Grimscale

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NirvanaFan said:
I'd argue that home internet isn't a necessity like electric, so the two aren't comparable. You have plenty of options for internet. Cable (Spectrum, Cox, Comcast, whoever), satellite, phone (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, whoever), DSL, etc. There are options. Increasing government regulations isn't going to increase competition and give you more options.
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Where are you, that you have these options?
I have Spectrum. That's it.
DSL does not come into my area (each of the DSL providors around here list my house as outside their coverage).
Satellite is too laggy for the work that I do.
When you say "phone" do you mean a cell phone plan? How is that home internet? Those plans are limited, and have disproportionate costs associated with tethering (using your cell phone as an internet source for your home computer).

And it is argued that in today's job market, home Internet HAS become a necessity.

When smaller ISPs, like Greenlight, have to pay extra to use existing lines on the poles, they CANNOT compete with the incumbent ISPs who sucked up the .gov dollars to string those lines in the first place.
When a website to rival Amazon tries to break into the market, but cannot afford the "ISP fee" they would have to pay to all of the major ISPs in the Country to have their traffic allowed to potential customers, they cannot compete.

And the minute they say they don't want to send "traffic they don't like", they are now completely responsible for any and all traffic that is illegal that makes it through. No more common carrier status with regards to lawsuits.
Like I said previously, when the internet started and up until 2014/2015, ISPs were a conduit to the Internet. That's all they did. only once those ISPs started providing content did they start interfering with that conduit. Why is it a bad thing to require that ISPs continue to do what they were doing all along? That they stay OUT of the traffic?

How long do you think NYGF will survive when they have to pony up cash to distant ISPs, or risk losing members and ad revenue?
 
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Darth said:
God bless you sir.

J/k

I personally can't fathom a god, as I'm sure you can't personally fathom an existence in which a mythical issue pops up and can''t even be made into reality (which in itself is a paradox) because of, well, anything.

An imaginary "free market is ad" view does not gain any traction with "free market is bad" responses.

:ROFL:
Click to expand...
:screwy:
 
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NirvanaFan said:
Do you know the differences between bandwith, throughput, jitter, latency, and error rate? Most people have no clue what each of those terms mean, and it's important to know when talking about network performance.
prioritizing traffic is an entirely different issue from network speed.
Click to expand...

I do i do ... even before NN i had crap ping times to game servers ... made playing suck .. really 50 hops thru routers just to get out of NY ..
 
spat

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Dayten said:
Just FYI before modern Net Neutrality, these problems all arose:

2005 – North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked VoIP service Vonage.
2005 – Comcast blocked or severely delayed traffic using the BitTorrent file-sharing protocol. (The company even had the guts to deny this for months until evidence was presented by the Associated Press.)
2007 – AT&T censored Pearl Jam because lead singer criticized President Bush.
2007 to 2009 – AT&T forced Apple to block Skype because it didn’t like the competition. At the time, the carrier had exclusive rights to sell the iPhone and even then the net neutrality advocates were pushing the government to protect online consumers, over 5 years before these rules were actually passed.
2009 – Google Voice app faced similar issues from ISPs, including AT&T on iPhone.
2010 – Windstream Communications, a DSL provider, started hijacking search results made using Google toolbar. It consistently redirected users to Windstream’s own search engine and results.
2011 – MetroPCS, one of the top-five wireless carriers at the time, announced plans to block streaming services over its 4G network from everyone except YouTube.
2011 to 2013 – AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon blocked Google Wallet in favor of Isis, a mobile payment system in which all three had shares. Verizon even asked Google to not include its payment app in its Nexus devices.
2012 – AT&T blocked FaceTime; again because the company didn’t like the competition.
2012 – Verizon started blocking people from using tethering apps on their phones that enabled consumers to avoid the company’s $20 tethering fee.
2014 – AT&T announced a new “sponsored data” scheme, offering content creators a way to buy their way around the data caps that AT&T imposes on its subscribers.
2014 – Netflix started paying Verizon and Comcast to “improve streaming service for consumers.”
2014 – T-Mobile was accused of using data caps to manipulate online competition.
Click to expand...
And the free market fixed all of those without any help from big brother.
 
spat

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Willjr75 said:
You aren't getting it. Some internet companies in areas are the only thing going. Now what happens when there aren't other alternatives? What happens when they all do it? What happens when every single new site is CNN because that's the only news site every provider will only allow you to view?
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Then you have a market willing to pay well over the going rate for unrestricted internet.

I suggest you get rich providing it, instead of bitching that someone else isn't doing it.
 
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I give up. Who cares anyway? If the price goes up, I'm pay it and if I can't, I'll just rob one of you guys to get my fix.
 
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