A few facts about Guns

[meketrefe]

I think the answer is sometimes we see a direct correlation, sometimes we see an inverse correlation. My guess is it is primarily a cultural phenomenon.

We can provide a covariant with all the violent crime per capita. There is nothing subjective about that. I just picked some examples that demonstrate that
high legal ownership per household vs. violent crime per capita are not related at all.

 

[meketrefe]

I don't have the patients to argue anymore. Does no good, everyone is entrenched.

We are not arguing I think. Freddy asked a reasonable question. There are places on the planet where in fact there is no much need for guns other than sports and hunting because they are very civilized and take care of all levels of society. Normally those places with smaller countries, where there are many resources, social consciousness and
government and public sector accountability. Japan, Sweden, Norway, etc.. are good examples of that.

 

[Podmonkey]

As far as I am concerned, lives saved or lost are irrelevant. Liberty is far more precious than life.
The bearing of arms is the purest expression of indvidual liberty. Simple as that. Now the facts support that guns, in the hands of civilians, save more lives than they take or at the very minimum have no negative effect, but evennif this were nit true it wouldn't change my stance at all. Live free or die.

 

[freddy]

We are not arguing I think. Freddy asked a reasonable question. There are places on the planet where in fact there is no much need for guns other than sports and hunting because they are very civilized and take care of all levels of society. Normally those places with smaller countries, where there are many resources, social consciousness and
government and public sector accountability. Japan, Sweden, Norway, etc.. are good examples of that.

Agreed. But I think podmonkey means arguing with anti gun people.

 

[meketrefe]

I don't disagree. My concern is how we address the anti gun people that relentlessly point to Japan as a case study of low guns = low homicide.

Japan fits their narrative but you can now ask about Switzerland, Norway, etc...

Japan is simply not infected by crime, poverty and corruption everywhere, including government. I would start there.

 

[freddy]

Japan fits their narrative but you can now ask about Switzerland, Norway, etc...

Japan is simply not infected by crime, poverty and corruption everywhere, including government. I would start there.

That makes sense.

 

[Podmonkey]

We are not arguing I think. Freddy asked a reasonable question. There are places on the planet where in fact there is no much need for guns other than sports and hunting because they are very civilized and take care of all levels of society. Normally those places with smaller countries, where there are many resources, social consciousness and
government and public sector accountability. Japan, Sweden, Norway, etc.. are good examples of that.

Between the pit of violent chaos and the desert of sterile stagnation there exists the narrow precipice of civilization. Stray too far either way and you will find oblivion. the nations you have listed trend a little too close to the desert for my liking.
There is no guarantee of safety or security in this world, beyond what one provides for one's self. Any notion to the contrary is tyranny.

 

[Podmonkey]

Japan fits their narrative but you can now ask about Switzerland, Norway, etc...

Japan is simply not infected by crime, poverty and corruption everywhere, including government. I would start there.

There is a lot of "normalized" crime in Japan, particularly sexual crimes. Its ignored, overlooked. There is a great deal of corruption as well. Look to South Korea which is similarly restricted in terms of firearms ownership and similarly prosperous and on the surface peaceful. However there exists a demonic cauldron of corporate and bureaucratic corruption there. Show me a "peaceful" nation and in turn I'll show you a society where the truly profane is ingnored and accepted to near the point of invisibilty.

 

[Podmonkey]

Human nature will not be denied. Only the vector of human evil changes. In the streets or in board room, the Legislature.

 

[meketrefe]

Agreed. But I think podmonkey means arguing with anti gun people.

Oh, I see. Sorry.
Well if someone doesn't want to listen then why arguing right?
The tribalism in society has destroyed critical thinking and question everything that is a normal exercise for the curious mind.
I like to listen to people to see what they propose about extending background checks and how to improve early detection of nut jobs
or actually enforce the laws we already have.
When it comes to guns we need to start from understanding the root cause of the violence that has nothing to do with the guns themselves.

Gun ownership benefits can be studied pretty much like vaccination programs. The model actually fits very well.
We have a disease that is crime and violence that is fueled by drugs, cartels, poverty and corruption.
Legal guns are the vaccine so if enough people have legal guns and know how to use it then crime will curve down.
Like in vaccination programs when we achieve a certain % of inoculation (Called herd immunity) then the disease will drastically
decline as it has no way to evolve. This is a fact well known in the science community and perfectly applicable to the
safety situation we have in many areas in this country.

Not everyone needs to be armed. Just enough people so we can achieve that heard inmumity that is good for an infected area.

A different story is the capacity for everyone to put 'feelings' and 'political correctness' BS aside in order to analyze things
pragmatically.

In the long run we should demand politicians to stop the games and address the actual root cause but for that we need
the right people in power. After-all the politicians didn't create this chaos and all they do is to exploit the situation and fears
of the otherwise clueless population to introduce radical agendas and harvest votes at any cost.

So is it the politicians fault or is it our fault and the politicians and current situation who are a joke are just a reflection
or our current society.

IMO there are pretty smart humans everywhere but as a society and a species, we pretty much suck.

 

[Podmonkey]

Oh, I see. Sorry.
Well if someone doesn't want to listen then why arguing right?
The tribalism in society has destroyed critical thinking and question everything that is a normal exercise for the curious mind.
I like to listen to people to see what they propose about extending background checks and how to improve early detection of nut jobs
or actually enforce the laws we already have.
When it comes to guns we need to start from understanding the root cause of the violence that has nothing to do with the guns themselves.

Gun ownership benefits can be studied pretty much like vaccination programs. The model actually fits very well.
We have a disease that is crime and violence that is fueled by drugs, cartels, poverty and corruption.
Legal guns are the vaccine so if enough people have legal guns and know how to use it then crime will curve down.
Like in vaccination programs when we achieve a certain % of inoculation (Called herd immunity) then the disease will drastically
decline as it has no way to evolve. This is a fact well known in the science community and perfectly applicable to the
safety situation we have in many areas in this country.

Not everyone needs to be armed. Just enough people so we can achieve that heard inmumity that is good for an infected area.

A different story is the capacity for everyone to put 'feelings' and 'political correctness' BS aside in order to analyze things
pragmatically.

In the long run we should demand politicians to stop the games and address the actual root cause but for that we need
the right people in power. After-all the politicians didn't create this chaos and all they do is to exploit the situation and fears
of the otherwise clueless population to introduce radical agendas and harvest votes at any cost.

So is it the politicians fault or is it our fault and the politicians and current situation who are a joke are just a reflection
or our current society.

IMO there are pretty smart humans everywhere but as a society and a species, we pretty much suck.

I have what I have. End of story.

 

[meketrefe]

There is a lot of "normalized" crime in Japan, particularly sexual crimes. Its ignored, overlooked. There is a great deal of corruption as well. Look to South Korea which is similarly restricted in terms of firearms ownership and similarly prosperous and on the surface peaceful. However there exists a demonic cauldron of corporate and bureaucratic corruption there. Show me a "peaceful" nation and in turn I'll show you a society where the truly profane is ingnored and accepted to near the point of invisibilty.

No society is perfect, specially where you have very large cities you have the most amazing things one could ever imagine but at the same time the most profound problems come from the cities.
Humans work and function a lot better in the 'Village' & Tribe system. We have only been a few centuries in large cities that ended up becoming empires and perpetrators of the most horrendous crimes in history.
We are actually hardwired to function in villages up to 200 to 300 people to function efficiently. This is a critical mass even for fast growing companies when
processes and departments can become dislodged by inertia.
It might take a few more centuries of errors until we figure out how to be in harmony, that if we survive at all.

The good thing the earth will be there and other cycles will follow.

 

[meketrefe]

I have what I have. End of story.

What do you have? Don't end the story w/o telling us!! lol

 

[meketrefe]

I don't have the patients to argue anymore. Does no good, everyone is entrenched.

I can understand. The best way is to stay away from all negativity.
IF a goon comes out arguing I might give him/her a few facts to chew on or simply say fvck you. lol
ALL LIVES MATTER!

 

[Podmonkey]

What do you have? Don't end the story w/o telling us!! lol

Well, you asked. I am compelled to share the badassitudeness of my newest acquisition whenever I have the slightest excuse to do so. It is a grail gun after all!


My new Galil Ace 308

I can understand. The best way is to stay away from all negativity.
IF a goon comes out arguing I might give him/her a few facts to chew on or simply say fvck you. lol
ALL LIVES MATTER!

Its just as well I am sequestered away by myself all the time for I only have 4 little arguments for liberal goons. Or 8 depending how heated the debate gets.

 

[freddy]

Oh, I see. Sorry.
Well if someone doesn't want to listen then why arguing right?
The tribalism in society has destroyed critical thinking and question everything that is a normal exercise for the curious mind.
I like to listen to people to see what they propose about extending background checks and how to improve early detection of nut jobs
or actually enforce the laws we already have.
When it comes to guns we need to start from understanding the root cause of the violence that has nothing to do with the guns themselves.

Gun ownership benefits can be studied pretty much like vaccination programs. The model actually fits very well.
We have a disease that is crime and violence that is fueled by drugs, cartels, poverty and corruption.
Legal guns are the vaccine so if enough people have legal guns and know how to use it then crime will curve down.
Like in vaccination programs when we achieve a certain % of inoculation (Called herd immunity) then the disease will drastically
decline as it has no way to evolve. This is a fact well known in the science community and perfectly applicable to the
safety situation we have in many areas in this country.

Not everyone needs to be armed. Just enough people so we can achieve that heard inmumity that is good for an infected area.

A different story is the capacity for everyone to put 'feelings' and 'political correctness' BS aside in order to analyze things
pragmatically.

In the long run we should demand politicians to stop the games and address the actual root cause but for that we need
the right people in power. After-all the politicians didn't create this chaos and all they do is to exploit the situation and fears
of the otherwise clueless population to introduce radical agendas and harvest votes at any cost.

So is it the politicians fault or is it our fault and the politicians and current situation who are a joke are just a reflection
or our current society.

IMO there are pretty smart humans everywhere but as a society and a species, we pretty much suck.

100%

 

[Criticalt]

I don't disagree. My concern is how we address the anti gun people that relentlessly point to Japan as a case study of low guns = low homicide.

Already been answered.
Its cultural differences.
Their first response in a conflict is not to grab a gun.
Even their street gangs and Yakuza rarely use guns.
They prefer blades and blunt weapons and only use guns if at "war".
Even if they had millions of guns, their gun deaths would be surprisingly low. Through varying levels of gun control over the last 150 years, Japan has always had low rates of gun murder and other murders. In general, they value life more than many Americans.
Think about it, if everyone in the country thought and acted the way we on this forum do, gun murders would be zero. Most Japanese are very conservative and think about life the same as us, on this forum.
If you look into it, white collar crime is very high in Japan. Also, low level fraud, pickpocketing, embezzlement, and strong armed robbery is extremely prevelant, but violent assault of any kind is very, very low.

 

[GOPerfect]

I am going a lot to the differences in overall culture.

I keep seeing this question about Japan. In Japan, there is nearly no immigration. Every citizen of Japan is Japanese. The United States is an immigration haven. We have people from all walks of life and labels for all of them. Too many in America have labels; very few are just plain Americans.

To compare who and what we are to other people of other nations is a disservice to the truth.

 

[libertysnake]

I am going a lot to the differences in overall culture.

I keep seeing this question about Japan. In Japan, there is nearly no immigration. Every citizen of Japan is Japanese. The United States is an immigration haven. We have people from all walks of life and labels for all of them. Too many in America have labels; very few are just plain Americans.

To compare who and what we are to other people of other nations is a disservice to the truth.

The liberal narrative on immigration is that everyone who wants to come here is good, and we're horrible for rejecting them.

The reality, is that some cultures are stupid, barbaric, and don't embrace American values. We don't want those cultures here. All races are welcome, but not all cultures and beliefs.

 

[HDMotorCop]

As far as I am concerned, lives saved or lost are irrelevant. Liberty is far more precious than life.
The bearing of arms is the purest expression of indvidual liberty. Simple as that. Now the facts support that guns, in the hands of civilians, save more lives than they take or at the very minimum have no negative effect, but evennif this were nit true it wouldn't change my stance at all. Live free or die.

Well said Pod! Our problem though, is that those who seek to limit out liberties will never acknowledge that. They just continually twist it against us and the "mainstream" foments it!

 

[Podmonkey]

Are people not seeing in the video I posted not me shooting a Galil but something else?

 

[freddy]

Well, you asked. I am compelled to share the badassitudeness of my newest acquisition whenever I have the slightest excuse to do so. It is a grail gun after all!


My new Galil Ace 308


Its just as well I am sequestered away by myself all the time for I only have 4 little arguments for liberal goons. Or 8 depending how heated the debate gets.

DEADLY FULL SEMI AUTO BUMPSTOCK!!!!
DANGER DANGER !!!!

 

[Podmonkey]

DEADLY FULL SEMI AUTO BUMPSTOCK!!!!
DANGER DANGER !!!!

Come and take it.