This guy gets it.
NY and CT compliant "Other Firearm" Delta Level Defense.
- Thread starter OnSight Firearms Training
- Start date
This guy gets it.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Look, I don't care, do what you want. This smells like Dark Stain with a higher price point. "Other" on a 4473 has a very different meaning than a 5 dollar tax stamp on an AOW.
"Firearm" is an NFA/GCA term with very specific meanings.
"Any Other Weapon" is an NFA/GCA term with very specific meanings.
WTF is an "other firearm"?
And if you think it's "legal in NY" because you can buy it on a 4473 without NFA paperwork... hook me up with an "other" 5.56 receiver with a full set of features and no pinned mag.
"Firearm" is an NFA/GCA term with very specific meanings.
"Any Other Weapon" is an NFA/GCA term with very specific meanings.
WTF is an "other firearm"?
And if you think it's "legal in NY" because you can buy it on a 4473 without NFA paperwork... hook me up with an "other" 5.56 receiver with a full set of features and no pinned mag.
Exonautic
.308 Win
This gun does not fall under any of those categories. It is an other .As to your last statement, that is the point. People in other states have been doing this for years now. It's in the same vein as a Mossberg shockwave. And that is good to go everywhere.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The Mossberg Shockwave is good to go in this state because the definition of shotgun in this state actually exists and says that it must be designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired by the shoulder and shoot a fixed shotgun shell through a smooth bore.
Since it was never designed with a stock (came like that from the factory) and assuming you never added a stock to it after receiving it, it isn't a shotgun so therefore it's just an other firearm since it isn't a rifle either or pistol because it fires a shell through a smooth bore.
Now on to this thing in the original post. It's not a rifle because NY defines a rifle and it doesn't fit that category. (No stock.) It's not a shotgun because it doesn't fit that definition either. (No stock and doesn't fire a fixed shotgun shell through a smooth bore.)
So what is it? What is the definition of a pistol in NYS? There isn't one. So you can't say it isn't a pistol because of XYZ like you can and say it's not a rifle or shotgun because of XYZ.
What does that mean. It means the state can call it a pistol. And if they call it a pistol, then it fits the definition of an assault pistol. You don't have the written definition to say that it isn't a pistol because of XYZ as your defense.
So when a Trooper or Officer pulls you over and for whatever reason discovers the firearm, he or she can look at it, see that it has a barrel less than 16 inches like a pistol, see that it has a pistol brace like a pistol, and see if it's listed on your permit.
When he sees that it isn't listed on your permit, he may charge you with violating Penal Law 400 by not having the pistol registered on your permit and charge you with violating Penal Law 265 for having a pistol with evil features.
You can cry till the wolves come but if he or she isn't a gun guy that knows the laws like we do, they'll charge you with it being a pistol. After that you have to convince a jury that it isn't a pistol because it has a forward grip. The ADA will say that it is one because NY's definition of an assault pistol is exactly what you have with the forward grip.
Tread lightly on this guys. You don't have definitions that'll back you up like you do with rifles and shotguns.
Since it was never designed with a stock (came like that from the factory) and assuming you never added a stock to it after receiving it, it isn't a shotgun so therefore it's just an other firearm since it isn't a rifle either or pistol because it fires a shell through a smooth bore.
Now on to this thing in the original post. It's not a rifle because NY defines a rifle and it doesn't fit that category. (No stock.) It's not a shotgun because it doesn't fit that definition either. (No stock and doesn't fire a fixed shotgun shell through a smooth bore.)
So what is it? What is the definition of a pistol in NYS? There isn't one. So you can't say it isn't a pistol because of XYZ like you can and say it's not a rifle or shotgun because of XYZ.
What does that mean. It means the state can call it a pistol. And if they call it a pistol, then it fits the definition of an assault pistol. You don't have the written definition to say that it isn't a pistol because of XYZ as your defense.
So when a Trooper or Officer pulls you over and for whatever reason discovers the firearm, he or she can look at it, see that it has a barrel less than 16 inches like a pistol, see that it has a pistol brace like a pistol, and see if it's listed on your permit.
When he sees that it isn't listed on your permit, he may charge you with violating Penal Law 400 by not having the pistol registered on your permit and charge you with violating Penal Law 265 for having a pistol with evil features.
You can cry till the wolves come but if he or she isn't a gun guy that knows the laws like we do, they'll charge you with it being a pistol. After that you have to convince a jury that it isn't a pistol because it has a forward grip. The ADA will say that it is one because NY's definition of an assault pistol is exactly what you have with the forward grip.
Tread lightly on this guys. You don't have definitions that'll back you up like you do with rifles and shotguns.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A pistol could have a 25 inch barrel. Irrelevant.
Have a good night.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Don't get angry. I'm just giving my point of view. Someone reading this could see yours and some could see where I'm coming from. That's what these forums are for.
I understand, but Im here with the firearm in hand, having spoke to the manufacturer, the ATF, State Police, AND the shop that did the transfer.
But you know more about this than me. All good. Not angry, just tired of the internet.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Does the manufacturer, state police, ATF, and the gunshop have the authority to interpret NY Penal laws? If no, than only a judge or jury can.
Look. I get that you have a vested interest in this since you purchased one. But you are tired of the internet because someone else pointed out some issues that goes against that vested interest.
But the fact of the matter is that one state police officer or trooper will say one thing and another will say something else. The same goes with FFL's.
I have no interest in buying this for only one reason. That's the potential of what could happen. I can't afford to take the ride if someone out there with authority decides to make an issue of it even if I win in the end.
My posts are only for those who can't afford that ride either and don't blindly run with it because they think it's 100 percent safe. That is all. There have been many things that I thought were foolproof legal until someone else pointed out something I wasn't seeing.
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Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
I know of a NYSP officer .. saying unpin that mag .. FK it .. you need a 30 rounder i'll get you some .. .. 
get the 9mm one .. looks like a highcap legal SafeAct mag
get the 9mm one .. looks like a highcap legal SafeAct mag
Man I would love, but slightly more risk than I am willing here in NY for me personally
nyenthusiast
.38 Special
I took a few minutes and reviewed the handgun restrictions listed on the safe act website. Being that this is not manufactured as a pistol, and does not meet the federal definition of one, I don’t really understand what case the state would have against this. The Tac-14 and shockwave “firearms” that are being sold at gun shops throughout the state also fall in to this category of firearms which do not meet any other specific definition under federal law. Correct me if I’m wrong, but part of the reason they remain legal is because they are manufactured and sold in that configuration. I believe the company’s warn against marking alterations to the firearm. Hence you can buy one of these “others”, but not build one yourself. It is all a bit confusing, but I really hope this goes the distance. It could make a huge difference for the black rifle enthusiasts here if it all pans out.
S
stuck in ny
Guest
Anybody can buy a million stripped lowers and make them into a milion rifle lowers. As long as they're for one's self, nothing else is required. The only issue is if the finished thing is legal. This is the same for a rifle or this thing.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
I believe the ones you can't build to sell are 80% lowers rifles or pistols !
S
stuck in ny
Guest
What I mean is that if something is legal to buy, it is legal to make from a virgin receiver.
S
stuck in ny
Guest
I know the sullivan trash. I was talking about the idea that "manufacturing" (of a TYPE of gun from a finished, transfered receiver, not of a receiver from an 80% or raw materials) is pertainent here. It it not. The only thing to establish is if this thing is legal to OWN. Whether it was made from stripped reciever or bought in one piece is irrelavant.
alistair
6.5 Creedmoor
I see these are listed for sale on armslist.com
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
Correct and in places like
land where FFL sell so called compliant firearms you run the risk of being locked up and going through expenses because the state doesn't want to make clear the actual law it's one thing if each firearm sold came with a certified letter from giving it's blessing but they don't so everyone is running he or she's own risk 
I'm just glad I don't have too deal with his nonsense but from the way politics is going you never know!
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Are they saying due to its features it's neither a pistol OR rifle, and so it doesn't fall under SAFE? Good luck with that in an NY court, IMO.
S
stuck in ny
Guest
Can a once pistol become an other, assuming you got it over 26 OAL, even in a free state? I don't think so.
Good question, I don't have the answer. I know I can legally turn it into a rifle. It's already over 26"
In NY, that would be charged as a pistol under the assault weapons provisions. A pistol with a forward grip that weighs over 50 ounces, as Will stated earlier.
Good luck, but that’s the answer whenever some cop or prosecutor decides to charge it.
Good luck, but that’s the answer whenever some cop or prosecutor decides to charge it.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
No.
Other has to be manufactured as an other. As in from the beginning, not "re-made" as ATF defines certain things.
S
stuck in ny
Guest
Then why is the shockwave not a regular old, non-assault, un-permited pistol, then? (Responding to gop on "assault")
Modean
.223 Rem
Because it's a smoothbore. Y'know, I agree that these rigs look cool, but remember, if some LEO decides to charge you for owning one, YOU are going to be on the hook for your defense, not the FFL who sold it to you.
S
stuck in ny
Guest
But a smoothbore muzzle loader pistol is still considered a pistol.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
it doesn't fire a fixed shotgun shell though.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Here is a CT4-2A Other Firearm being being sold on Armslist.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: CT4-2A - DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE
And here is Jem's fixed magazine pistol that's on his permit.
So now I have the "Other Firearm" and Jem has the fixed mag pistol listed on his permit. We are in the same car and we get pulled over and searched. Who's going home that night and who's getting booked? It's the same gun.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: CT4-2A - DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE
And here is Jem's fixed magazine pistol that's on his permit.
So now I have the "Other Firearm" and Jem has the fixed mag pistol listed on his permit. We are in the same car and we get pulled over and searched. Who's going home that night and who's getting booked? It's the same gun.
It depends if they find my bags of crack or not lol.Here is a CT4-2A Other Firearm being being sold on Armslist.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: CT4-2A - DELTA LEVEL DEFENSE
And here is Jem's fixed magazine pistol that's on his permit.
View attachment 34137
So now I have the "Other Firearm" and Jem has the fixed mag pistol listed on his permit. We are in the same car and we get pulled over and searched. Who's going home that night and who's getting booked? It's the same gun.
"Other" is a technicality right now, you want one while it's technically legal to buy one, that's up to you guys. I wouldn't want the state police to find me with one.