Holy Crap!! You’re Gonna Agree With Schumer!!

[Curmudgeon]

He is not manipulating a free market, he is manipulating a communist market.

A market is neither Capitalist nor Communist. Participants may be one or the other. If you dont like the way a specific market participant behaves, you can chose to limit what you buy from them. Using the government to force your worldview on others serves the interests of a very few.

 

[holdover]

Because the same shitty regulations that lead to tariffs drove companies out in the first place ?

But that's not what happened. It was NAFTA and free trade agreements that sent US companies over seas for greater profits. US companies were forced to follow OSHA rules of a safe work environment, they were forced to help with health insurance, they were forced to pay minimum wages, Child labor, they were forced to pay high taxes, ect
But when they moved to Mexico or where ever, they paid none of that, No health care and no safety requirements . They brought goods in tax free, Crushing domestic US manufacturers with slave wages. It was never a level playing ground to begin with . It only levels out when the labor in the US is being paid the same as the laborer in China or Mexico. Reducing the living standards in the US to be competitive with the living standard in shit hole countries. That's what ""free"" trade offers the US. Some of us begin to see the direction the socialist party are pointing to. Its no coincidence they were pushing for socialized medicine back in 91, and 2011, assault weapon bans in 94 ,and 2011, 20017.

 

[@thewheels]

I don't agree with Schumer. Or Trump. I dont see tariffs or any manual manipulation of a free market as beneficial.

Free market?

This country hasn't operated under a free market for multiple decades.

 

[holdover]

A market is neither Capitalist nor Communist. Participants may be one or the other. If you dont like the way a specific market participant behaves, you can chose to limit what you buy from them. Using the government to force your worldview on others serves the interests of a very few.

This is true, but the systems cancel each other out. Capitalists cannot compete with slave wages , and communists do not have the markets to sell the goods they make. ( because they don't pay them) the free market doesn't exist in china. US corporations exploit that loophole and get the best of both worlds paying little to make goods and selling them at whatever the market is willing to pay here . Which is awesome for the corporations and good for the commies workforce, but robs the labor market in the US of income.

 

[Darth]

But that's not what happened. It was NAFTA and free trade agreements that sent US companies over seas for greater profits. US companies were forced to follow OSHA rules of a safe work environment, they were forced to help with health insurance, they were forced to pay minimum wages, Child labor, they were forced to pay high taxes, ect
But when they moved to Mexico or where ever, they paid none of that, No health care and no safety requirements . They brought goods in tax free, Crushing domestic US manufacturers with slave wages. It was never a level playing ground to begin with . It only levels out when the labor in the US is being paid the same as the laborer in China or Mexico. Reducing the living standards in the US to be competitive with the living standard in shit hole countries. That's what ""free"" trade offers the US. Some of us begin to see the direction the socialist party are pointing to. Its no coincidence they were pushing for socialized medicine back in 91, and 2011, assault weapon bans in 94 ,and 2011, 20017.

Did you just say "that's not what happened " and then proceed to describe exactly that happening?

They didn't leave for shits and giggles. They were driven out by regulations.

 

[Podmonkey]

"It isn't about who is in power."

"My higher take home is Trump's doing."

?

Okay, yes that was contradictory statement I made. All I am saying is Trump is handling the economy and especially these trade deal negotiations well so I am trusting his judgment in this particular matter.
And "higher take home" does not adequately describe my reversal of fortunes. It was by my own hard work and sacrifice that I pulled myself up out of the WNY ecomomic ghetto but I have not a single doubt in my mind that this administration has opened up the opportunities for me to take advantage of.
Life is never black & white. Free unimpeded international trade is the ideal but our exports are never unimpeded, compromise is required to protect our interests.

 

[holdover]

Did you just say "that's not what happened " and then proceed to describe exactly that happening?

They didn't leave for shits and giggles. They were driven out by regulations.

No I didn't. It wasn't regulations , and they weren't driven out . They lobbied for those laws!! They left for cheap labor and larger profits. They were hardly driven out by regulations ,NAFTA gave them the key to the candy store. It Handed it to them on a Chinese made fake silver platter.

 

[Darth]

No I didn't. It wasn't regulations , and they weren't driven out . They lobbied for those laws!! They left for cheap labor and larger profits. They were hardly driven out by regulations ,NAFTA gave them the key to the candy store. It Handed it to them on a Chinese made fake silver platter.

Wait...you're saying they lobbied for the regulations that cut their profits down to the point that they left?

What?

 

[Darth]

Okay, yes that was contradictory statement I made. All I am saying is Trump is handling the economy and especially these trade deal negotiations well so I am trusting his judgment in this particular matter.
And "higher take home" does not adequately describe my reversal of fortunes. It was by my own hard work and sacrifice that I pulled myself up out of the WNY ecomomic ghetto but I have not a single doubt in my mind that this administration has opened up the opportunities for me to take advantage of.
Life is never black & white. Free unimpeded international trade is the ideal but our exports are never unimpeded, compromise is required to protect our interests.

Why do we export?

 

[Podmonkey]

Why do we export?

Because leopards have spots.

 

[Curmudgeon]

This is true, but the systems cancel each other out. Capitalists cannot compete with slave wages , and communists do not have the markets to sell the goods they make. ( because they don't pay them) the free market doesn't exist in china. US corporations exploit that loophole and get the best of both worlds paying little to make goods and selling them at whatever the market is willing to pay here . Which is awesome for the corporations and good for the commies workforce, but robs the labor market in the US of income.

Why is it one participant in a market vs. another? If I choose to run my Chicago meatpacking facility with child labor, eventually someone like Upton Sinclair is going to expose me to the market, the market reacts and my child-labor fueled business goes belly up due to negative perception of my business.

Why does a government need to be involved?

 

[prambo]

 

[Burzum]

Tariffs are not a simple issue. Its not Apples to Apples,The first problem, is the political systems of country's involved . Capitalism and free market systems trading with communist and non free market country's. The rules and regulations of each. The communist worker, gets free health care, and place to live . The capitalist doesn't. Its going to cost more for the producers of goods in a capitalist system ,which has to provide a living wage for its workers or it has no workers.

The field is not level . The communists can produce goods much more cheaply using what we would call slave labor. Under ""free"" trade agreements, large US corporations were allowed to open up shop in various foreign country's, produce goods with slave labor ship them and sell them to the US while avoiding US taxes and doing it under the protection of the US flag and screwing the American worker. Globalism at its finest. The needs of the corporation outweigh the needs of the country . In order for the US worker to compete, he has to except global wages and reduce his living standards . This why globalists are for open borders , it floods the market with cheap foreign labor. This is why American companies fled the US for larger profits, this is why the American economy has weakened over the last 25 years.


The way Trump used the tariffs this week is because he has a meeting with the Chinese today to get a trade deal done that is fair to the US. , He wanted them to know that if a trade deal wasnt made that the tariffs would be increasing to 25% on Friday .He is either going to twist their arm or rob them blind , their choice.

As opposed to the sell out mother fuckers who made the deals in the first place.

Amen, x 10,000

Pat Buchanan has been trying to explain this for decades but until Trump too many globalist-open border Republicans and Democrats sold their soul for greed (campaign "contributions" from venture capitalists) and too many voters swallowed the sperm of the corporate media brainwashing them that "free trade" was great.

Maybe if government workers saw their pay, pension, and benefits pitted against Asian slave labor plantation capitalism, they too would understand how unfair the WTO, NAFTA, and granting China "most favored nation trading status" has been, but instead government just barrows more to keep government workers happy as the private sector tax base contracts.

 

[holdover]

Wait...you're saying they lobbied for the regulations that cut their profits down to the point that they left?

What?

NO, They lobbied for regulations that allowed them to exploit cheap foreign labor and avoid taxes at the expense of the American worker which raised their profit margins to obscene levels . Who do you think wrote those laws? Our brilliant senators?

Are you saying American corporations are victims of free trade deals that put untaxed trillions of dollars in their pockets? What kind of weed are you smoking?

Globalism and international trade are two different things , International trade has been around since there were nations to trade with . The problem is, globalism is sold as being the same as international trade to the public who trusts their representatives and media to be honest and its not . ""Free trade"" is a con mans construction of the English language to sell this bullshit to t the public. We've traded with Asia and Europe since we were a country ,Who the hell isn't for free trade? Win win right? wrong. They are selling us a bag of shit burgers.

Trump understands that the American people and the American economy is getting fucked to the wall with unfair Trade deals that enrich global company's at the expense of the people and the economy. first three days in office he eliminated the trans pacific trade deal which would have been the death knell for any American manufacturing left in this country.

You can be either pro nationalism or pro globalism but you cant be both, they cancel each other out.

Globalism definition, the attitude or policy of placing the interests of the entire world above those of individual nations.