Virginia may very well be the virtual canary in the 2A coal mine

[skywarner]

This hasn’t made the national news, at least not yet, but over 40 counties in Virginia have declared themselves as sanctuaries against proposed legislation banning semi-auto pistols up to and including outright confiscation.

It's really beginning to look like Virginia has become Ground Zero for the future of our obviously divided Nation.

Fairfax County LE speaker warns meeting attendees of potential civil war

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Marine Cpl]

The same rhetoric was said in NY, California, etc. In the end, these laws will pass and the only action will be more rhetoric. They will keep talking about being pushed and eventually something is going to happen while continuing to allow themselves to be pushed some more. Then more rhetoric.

 

[Acer-m14]

Hoping the Dems in VA push a bill .. you can't have sex with family relatives .. then it will be SHTF

 

[Criticalt]

Just like the 56 out of 62 counties in NYS say they will not enforce the SafeAct.
Well, the other 6 counties have all the power and the state will overstep the counties if needed to enforce laws.
Virginia will be no different.
Until someone with a fat wallet and alot of free time tries to bring these laws all the way to the SCOTUS.
All the while avoiding minimum mandatory prison sentences for "gun crimes".
Nope, 99.9% will plea out and the laws carry on.

 

[Podmonkey]

The same rhetoric was said in NY, California, etc. In the end, these laws will pass and the only action will be more rhetoric. They will keep talking about being pushed and eventually something is going to happen while continuing to allow themselves to be pushed some more. Then more rhetoric.

There is a breaking point, there is always a breaking point. The balancing point wasn't in New York, nor California or any of the thus far comprised states. It may not be in Virginia, nor might it be in Pennsylvania someday. Neither will the fulcrum be solely the Second Amendment. It is indisputable however that an unbridgeable divide has spread throughout our nation, a divide not just between left and right but between urban and rural and any number of axis that exist in our society. These fissures however have converged upon a singular plane on either side of which the lines are drawn.
These fractures exist in all levels of our society now and make no mistake that they run through the government, amidst the politicians and amongst the bureaucrats, all around the rank and file department members and the same goes for the military and law enforcement.
There will be an upheaval. A major one. To call it a war might be inaccurate as that would imply an even schism of belligerent forces with a defined front between them. What is likely to occur ate fragmentary pockets of conflict.
But those of us that hold the ideals of liberty as espoused by the Founding Fathers of this Nation as sacred must be prepared to do our duty to fight to restore those ideals. Or die in the attempt.
The left has divided but they will not conquer.
One day, perhaps soon brother will once again fall upon brother and we must take the opportunity to set things right. We must make this a reckoning.

 

[Uzi]

I'll be shocked if it happens. A few of the restrictions passing not really, but an "assault weapons" ban ++ like here in NYS......? in Virginia I just don't see it happening. If it did it wouldn't stick around very long before it's deemed unconstitutional and immediately repealed. Virginia has a stronger voice and opposition; NYS never had a chance. My

 

[Marine Cpl]

There is a breaking point, there is always a breaking point. The balancing point wasn't in New York, nor California or any of the thus far comprised states. It may not be in Virginia, nor might it be in Pennsylvania someday. Neither will the fulcrum be solely the Second Amendment. It is indisputable however that an unbridgeable divide has spread throughout our nation, a divide not just between left and right but between urban and rural and any number of axis that exist in our society. These fissures however have converged upon a singular plane on either side of which the lines are drawn.
These fractures exist in all levels of our society now and make no mistake that they run through the government, amidst the politicians and amongst the bureaucrats, all around the rank and file department members and the same goes for the military and law enforcement.
There will be an upheaval. A major one. To call it a war might be inaccurate as that would imply an even schism of belligerent forces with a defined front between them. What is likely to occur ate fragmentary pockets of conflict.
But those of us that hold the ideals of liberty as espoused by the Founding Fathers of this Nation as sacred must be prepared to do our duty to fight to restore those ideals. Or die in the attempt.
The left has divided but they will not conquer.
One day, perhaps soon brother will once again fall upon brother and we must take the opportunity to set things right. We must make this a reckoning.

The majority doesn’t see it that way though. You have militant guys like you that are in the super minority, guys like on this forum who believe in background checks and red flag laws for domestic arguments, Fudds, and guys who don’t want gun laws but aren’t willing to die for it.

It’s a fantasy to think that people will give up everything for a pistol grip today, and maybe a featureless semi auto Mini 14 tomorrow.

Who will they fight? The police? No way! No way someone like our resident Fudd here who I won’t name will engage the police after trying to tar and feather a politician.

 

[seezur]

The majority doesn’t see it that way though. You have militant guys like you that are in the super minority, guys like on this forum who believe in background checks and red flag laws for domestic arguments, Fudds, and guys who don’t want gun laws but aren’t willing to die for it.

It’s a fantasy to think that people will give up everything for a pistol grip today, and maybe a featureless semi auto Mini 14 tomorrow.

Who will they fight? The police? No way! No way someone like our resident Fudd here who I won’t name will engage the police after trying to tar and feather a politician.

You’re right in that most people probably aren’t willing to kill and/or die for their gun rights. Most people aren’t going to be willing to kill state employees even if they could get away with it because killing is something most of us normal people don’t want to do. States like NY or California, which have massive liberal cities that host world leading industries (Wallstreet, Silicon Valley), never had a chance regarding gun rights.

If the laws pass in VA they’ll be used to stack charges or as a way for police to get their foot in the door. The outcome in VA, or any other state, will be just like NY. Most won’t comply, they’ll just hide their now “illegal” guns. I think a more effective way to essentially disarm law abiding citizens is to make the act of self defense illegal or extremely difficult, as they have here in NY, where the dead rapist or armed burglar is the “victim” and the law abiding citizen is grilled by the justice system. By doing that they‘ve “allowed” us a stripped down 2A but its fundamental use (protection of self/family against tyranny or aggressors) is essentially neutered.

That being said, I don’t think that the few militant types will necessarily have to engage in small arms exchanges to make an impact. While I don’t agree with his actions McVeigh caused a lot of damage. His reasons were the federal government‘s actions at Ruby Ridge, Waco and their increasing suppression of the 2A. What I‘m getting at is if they keep pushing it they will definitely have some more McVeighs on their hands, and that’ll be bad for all of us.

Unfortunately I think 2A rights are something where there just doesn’t seem to be any possible agreement between the two sides.

 

[libertysnake]

The same rhetoric was said in NY, California, etc. In the end, these laws will pass and the only action will be more rhetoric. They will keep talking about being pushed and eventually something is going to happen while continuing to allow themselves to be pushed some more. Then more rhetoric.

That's what people in these red states don't get -- if you let it happen in blue states, it will creep into your state too. Texas is red, so far. But that doesn't mean it always will be. And they'll pay the same price as NY for waiting till it was too late to take a stand against 2A infringements. If anything, to extremely quick move to anti-gun laws in VA should be a wake-up call to them, that the moment the left seizes power they'll immediately pander to their base, whether based on reason or not.

If states care about preserving 2A, there is only one non-violent solution: constitutional convention. They need to absolutely clarify the right to bear arms, worded in a way that the supreme court cannot willfully ignore, along with the consequences that will be faced if any state attempts to limit the rights of their citizens to bear arms.

 

[masterswimmer]

If states care about preserving 2A, there is only one non-violent solution: constitutional convention. They need to absolutely clarify the right to bear arms, worded in a way that the supreme court cannot willfully ignore, along with the consequences that will be faced if any state attempts to limit the rights of their citizens to bear arms.

And also be prepared for the alternate consequence of a constitutional convention whereby the 2A is removed completely as a constitutional right.

Sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

[libertysnake]

And also be prepared for the alternate consequence of a constitutional convention whereby the 2A is removed completely as a constitutional right.

Sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for.

That's also possible, but then we at least have clarity and can move forward. If people are willing to give up 2A in a convention, then either that's what happens, end of story, or the country just splits hard into two nations or something. Who knows.

It's the living in ambiguity that's worse since you don't know where you stand.

 

[masterswimmer]

That's also possible, but then we at least have clarity and can move forward. If people are willing to give up 2A in a convention, then either that's what happens, end of story, or the country just splits hard into two nations or something. Who knows.

It's the living in ambiguity that's worse since you don't know where you stand.

Not a chance I want to take. I voted down the last ballot for the CC.

 

[libertysnake]

Not a chance I want to take. I voted down the last ballot for the CC.

Without a CC, you're in the same boat as if it goes south. Without a CC, NY will continue to shit on 2A rights. Worst case with a convention, it solidifies the lack of rights you already are experiencing in stone, but there's still a chance it reaffirms and clarifies the rights in favor of them.

I don't see the downside.

 

[masterswimmer]

Without a CC, you're in the same boat as if it goes south. Without a CC, NY will continue to shit on 2A rights. Worst case with a convention, it solidifies the lack of rights you already are experiencing in stone, but there's still a chance it reaffirms and clarifies the rights in favor of them.

I don't see the downside.

As of right now I do have the right to keep and bear. Eroding as they may be .Gov is not going around confiscating.

Remove all doubt with a CC repealing the 2A and then you have relinquished the right from a legal standpoint.

 

[Jsmegs77]

Hoping the Dems in VA push a bill .. you can't have sex with family relatives .. then it will be SHTF

That's West Virginia.... Or as my buddy who made the mistake of going to a strip club there called it, Worst Vagina.

 

[libertysnake]

As of right now I do have the right to keep and bear. Eroding as they may be .Gov is not going around confiscating.

Remove all doubt with a CC repealing the 2A and then you have relinquished the right from a legal standpoint.

They're just going to chip away till your right to bear is gone anyway. It's just going to become harder and harder, till it's highly impractical and effectively gone.

 

[Phauxtoe]

those new gun laws are stepping on more than just gun laws!

they are stomping on most things in the Bill of Rights.
I love the Sheriff who said he would deputize thousands of people to protect gun rights.

 

[skywarner]

Overnight, that VA Sheriff just literally created an army of thousands, all of whom posses a common core value.

 

[Jsmegs77]

Now, if one is appropriately deputized, does that individual then fall under the provisions of LEOSA? Assuming, of course, that said individual is not un-deputized ....

 

[holdover]

There is a breaking point, there is always a breaking point. The balancing point wasn't in New York, nor California or any of the thus far comprised states. It may not be in Virginia, nor might it be in Pennsylvania someday. Neither will the fulcrum be solely the Second Amendment.

THIS! The breaking point is blood. As it has been throughout history. The British didn't commit one particular act that set off the revolution. It was a series of events over a long period time. The sizing of the armory at Lexington was just the last straw in a series of straws. When or if the common man has become an outlaw by decree, He is faced with two options resist or comply. And if or when thousands of otherwise decent people are slaughtered in their homes resisting, the numbers of resistors will swell. It will grow beyond the ability of the police to control.

 

[Marine Cpl]

THIS! The breaking point is blood. As it has been throughout history. The British didn't commit one particular act that set off the revolution. It was a series of events over a long period time. The sizing of the armory at Lexington was just the last straw in a series of straws. When or if the common man has become an outlaw by decree, He is faced with two options resist or comply. And if or when thousands of otherwise decent people are slaughtered in their homes resisting, the numbers of resistors will swell. It will grow beyond the ability of the police to control.

And today’s man will comply. You complied. I complied. Everyone in this state complied. And tomorrow they will comply again. There is no breaking point unless they actually try killing us Nazi style which isn’t going to happen.

They already took our AR’s from public use. They already forced us to register pistols. They took our ability to SBR. They took away our suppressors. They continually rape us in taxes to squander it or give to someone who doesn’t deserve it.

What is this breaking point that everyone talks about?

Looks to me that when the breaking point happens they just leave rather than fight.

 

[holdover]

I have always stayed within the boundaries of the constitution.

 

[holdover]

Todays man will comply because he didn't watch his son or father gunned down in the street . Todays man will comply because his back isn't to the wall. Todays man will comply because he isn't on a wanted list . Todays man will comply because he hasn't been forced to defend himself . The conditions for armed conflict do not exist at the moment .

 

[spat]

As of right now I do have the right to keep and bear. Eroding as they may be .Gov is not going around confiscating.

Remove all doubt with a CC repealing the 2A and then you have relinquished the right from a legal standpoint.

The 2A is already repealed in all but name.

There is no infringement the 2nd circuit would consider a violation of the 2A.

Their logic is "interest balancing" whereby if the government can make any claim of a benefit, then their interest overrides the 2A. The 2nd circuit *upheld* the ridiculous NYC restrictions that just went to SCOTUS.

So, no, we have nothing to lose.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Todays man will comply because he didn't watch his son or father gunned down in the street . Todays man will comply because his back isn't to the wall. Todays man will comply because he isn't on a wanted list . Todays man will comply because he hasn't been forced to defend himself . The conditions for armed conflict do not exist at the moment .

And they won’t exist for the foreseeable future. The government isn’t going to go Nazi style gunning people down in the streets. They just want to emulate Europe and Australia. That’s the goal.

 

[holdover]

If people resist , there will be blood. You arnt going to tell me that nobody in this country will resist by force. and if they do , they will be shot down . the message sent will be comply or die . which isn't going to go over to dam well .

 

[holdover]

How many New Yorkers complied with registration As compared with Europe or Australia? People willingly became criminals . that right there should tell you something. No, Your right people arnt going to go all bonkers because they passed an illegal law. Nobody with a ounce of sanity wants to fight , but don't make the mistake to say they wont under the right conditions. All you have to do is to look over seas in places like Sareajevo. or Syria .

 

[Jmac00]

no body seems to grasp the situation that the country is headed for.

Agenda 21, IS WORKING. (the extremely short version) basically, it mandates that all citizens be moved to large cities. Cities where the citizens can be controlled and guess who the first people in these cities are, Liberal/progressives. Guess who is controlling the states....the big cities.

This is why we are seeing rural areas passing 2A sanctuaries.

My brother lives in Va. Im telling you, these people are serious about their 2A rights. Unlike NY'res, the nice citizens of Va. (in my opinion) will stand stead fast. If the cops down there say they won't enforce the laws, I would tend to believe them.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If people resist , there will be blood. You arnt going to tell me that nobody in this country will resist by force. and if they do , they will be shot down . the message sent will be comply or die . which isn't going to go over to dam well .

Except they won’t resist.

How many New Yorkers complied with registration As compared with Europe or Australia? People willingly became criminals . that right there should tell you something. No, Your right people arnt going to go all bonkers because they passed an illegal law. Nobody with a ounce of sanity wants to fight , but don't make the mistake to say they wont under the right conditions. All you have to do is to look over seas in places like Sareajevo. or Syria .

Hiding something in a closet isn’t resisting.