Late starter humble prepping stash

[GOPerfect]

Any info on how long it needs to be at a boil?

After the rolling boil a minute at minimum. I let it go two or three minutes.

 

[GOPerfect]

But what about your 3rd eye?

I think was from eating slugs and worms.

 

[kev74]

I wouldn't mess with pool chlorine. You don't know what's in it and the concentration would have to be super high to be effective in thousands of gallons of pool water. Even if you used a tiny amount it could be a fatal amount.

Also liquid bleach goes bad after about a year or at least has a 1 year use by date.

In a pinch, chlorine bleach is a quick and easy way to disinfect drinking water. The package might say to use it within a year, but it lasts mych longer than that if stored inside at moderate temperatures. After long periods, it doesn't go bad, but might loose some of its stregnth.

The general recommendation is to add 8 drops of bleach per gallon of water. Then let it sit and if you can't smell the bleach, add 8 more drops. It should be allowed to sit for a while to let the chlorine do its magic.

A swimming pool test kit can be used to measure chlorine residual in water. After sitting for 8 hours or so, if it has any measurable chlorine in the water, its good to use.

Liquid bleach or pool shock is usually sodium hypochlotite. The solid stuff is calcium hypochlorite. Either will work for disinfecting water. The math can get confusing to figure out how much to use.

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[BDinPutnam]

In a pinch, chlorine bleach is a quick and easy way to disinfect drinking water. The package might say to use it within a year, but it lasts mych longer than that if stored inside at moderate temperatures. After long periods, it doesn't go bad, but might loose some of its stregnth.

The general recommendation is to add 8 drops of bleach per gallon of water. Then let it sit and if you can't smell the bleach, add 8 more drops. It should be allowed to sit for a while to let the chlorine do its magic.

A swimming pool test kit can be used to measure chlorine residual in water. After sitting for 8 hours or so, if it has any measurable chlorine in the water, its good to use.

Liquid bleach or pool shock is usually sodium hypochlotite. The solid stuff is calcium hypochlorite. Either will work for disinfecting water. The math can get confusing to figure out how much to use.

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Admittedly, the bleach trick is about the last solution I want to use, but still good info.

On a related note- what (if anything) can treat/filter water with chemicals in it? I know thats one of the big "do not's" as in "this product will filter 99.9% of bacteria but will not remove chemicals from water" you see on filters, etc.

 

[fnfalguy]

@BDinPutnam supposedly the berkey. Berkey Filters - Filtration Specifications and Test Results
as mentioned earlier, works well on hydrogen sulfide. The reduction in numbers is impressive. I imagine with higher contaminant levels, the trade off might be filter life.

im sure there are others, but this is the one we researched.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Grazi!

 

[GOPerfect]

Admittedly, the bleach trick is about the last solution I want to use, but still good info.

On a related note- what (if anything) can treat/filter water with chemicals in it? I know thats one of the big "do not's" as in "this product will filter 99.9% of bacteria but will not remove chemicals from water" you see on filters, etc.

Getting chemicals out is very, very tricky. There is no filter in existence that can remove all each and every chemical that is attached to water.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I agree with BD here. Chlorine would be my last option. Why not use a basic Brita water filter to remove sediment from river water and just boil afterwards?

 

[Steal2B]

Admittedly, the bleach trick is about the last solution I want to use, but still good info.

On a related note- what (if anything) can treat/filter water with chemicals in it? I know thats one of the big "do not's" as in "this product will filter 99.9% of bacteria but will not remove chemicals from water" you see on filters, etc.

Without water treatment or fractional distillation, activated coconut shell charcoal is good at removing chemicals from water especially if you maintain a low flowrate to maximize residence time. I thought we went through this on another thread but I store some particulate and charcoal filter cartridges that could be used if we bug out or eventually run out of fuel to run the well pump.

 

[kev74]

Without water treatment or fractional distillation, activated coconut shell charcoal is good at removing chemicals from water especially if you maintain a low flowrate to maximize residence time. I thought we went through this on another thread but I store some particulate and charcoal filter cartridges that could be used if we bug out or eventually run out of fuel to run the well pump.

Activated charcoal would be my first guess too. But I'd use any other available option to avoid chemical tainted water before I'd even think of drinking it - especially without a good way to test if I got the contaminates out.

For those sketched out by using bleach, when you drink municipal water, its got sodium hypochlorite in it. They use the same stuff in higher concentrations with more sophisticated pumps to measure it.

 

[spat]

I agree with BD here. Chlorine would be my last option. Why not use a basic Brita water filter to remove sediment from river water and just boil afterwards?

I would suggest running it through a normal coffee filter first to reduce the sediment load and prolong the life of the brita.

 

[spat]

I wouldn't mess with pool chlorine. You don't know what's in it and the concentration would have to be super high to be effective in thousands of gallons of pool water. Even if you used a tiny amount it could be a fatal amount.

Also liquid bleach goes bad after about a year or at least has a 1 year use by date.

I did say you'd have to know how to do the math.

You would take the pool chlorine (which you should have the MSDS for so you know what else is in there). And then take a small amount of that and make yourself a 3% solution that would be the equivalent of "fresh" household bleach.

You would then use that 3% solution to purify your water.

The suggestion above of using a pool chlorine test kit is a great idea.

But, the bottom line is that a 1lb pack of pool shock is enough to chlorinate a 24,000 gallon pool. That's a way better storage density than liquid bleach, and the dry granular material has a much better shelf life.

 

[spat]

Boiling. If you don't have safe bottled water, you should boil your water to make it safe to drink. Boiling is the surest method to kill disease-causing organisms, including viruses, bacteria, and parasites.

If you're really worried about the quality, setup a still.

It can eliminate a lot of chemical hazards that boiling alone can't. You will want to learn how to do it properly though, throw away the first bit and stop before the pot goes dry.

Bonus is that it can be used on fermented products to create stuff for trade, medicinal and recreational use as well.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm not that far from Lake Erie. That probably won't run out.

I probably live a lot closer to you than I realized

 

[Chevusa]

I probably live a lot closer to you than I realized

I’ll split the water with you. 50/50.

 

[repete]

Also keep an eye out on amazon and Walmart for keystone meats. Our ready-to-eat meats make your family meals easier
from what I have seen, they have the most unadulturated product I have seen and it has a solid shelf life as well for the medium long storables. This can was picked up from amazon a month or so ago and is best by 6/8/25. Their ground beef makes good tacos, and we have also had their pork, turkey and beef chunks. All are good.

View attachment 82293

No idea if the factory still sells to the public but I remember long ago as a kid my parents would stop and buy a couple cases of meat at what I guess was a factory outlet store in Ohio. Might want to check it out, my folks were all about saving $$

 

[repete]

Lifestraws are great, but look at the Sawyer products. If you treat it right, a Sawyer filter can last you a lifetime of backpacking. Put one on the top of a 40oz Smart Water bottle, and you can take water with you rather than having to suck it out of a puddle or stream. With the right fittings, you can even place one inline on a hydration bladder. They’re so much more versatile than a lifestraw for just a couple bucks more.

My wife and I have had and use a Sawyer pump style filter for years possibly decades with out trouble.
LifeStraw is great for lightweight portable use but is also fragile and as said elsewhere difficult to transport water.
I can fill a 1 gallon container in about a minute or so with my Sawyer pump!

 

[kev74]

If you're really worried about the quality, setup a still.

It can eliminate a lot of chemical hazards that boiling alone can't. You will want to learn how to do it properly though, throw away the first bit and stop before the pot goes dry.

Bonus is that it can be used on fermented products to create stuff for trade, medicinal and recreational use as well.

There is no way I'd trust a home gamer still to remove chemical contamination. Salt - sure! By chemical contamination? No way! Especially without a good test.

I say that as someone who has both run a recreational still and worked in various analytical laboratories for many years.

 

[Bob]

My wife and I have had and use a Sawyer pump style filter for years possibly decades with out trouble.
LifeStraw is great for lightweight portable use but is also fragile and as said elsewhere difficult to transport water.
I can fill a 1 gallon container in about a minute or so with my Sawyer pump!

I took a cheap 5-gallon collapsible container and attached a vinyl tube and then a Sawyer filter to the spigot. Works great for camping. Fill the 5-gallon container from the lake or stream, hang it, and gravity-feed the filter. Provides drinking water for the whole weekend.

 

[spat]

There is no way I'd trust a home gamer still to remove chemical contamination. Salt - sure! By chemical contamination? No way! Especially without a good test.

I say that as someone who has both run a recreational still and worked in various analytical laboratories for many years.

Depends on how thirsty you are I guess.

Obviously if you have a choice, you don't risk it. But this thread is about a SHTF situation where you don't have a choice.

If all you've got is questionable water or death, I would run it through the still. Better odds than anything else.

If you've got a carbon filter, absolutely use it, but run the water through the still first. The carbon filter will last a lot longer and the water will taste better, and maybe it'll catch something that slipped through the distillation.

Also, unlike many filters a still doesn't have a shelf life or a limit on how many contaminates it can eliminate. You could use it for as many gallons of water as you have fuel to heat, even with heavy contamination. Could even pass it down to the grandkids in a real TEOTWAWKI situation.

There are also lots of types of contamination that aren't acutely dangerous, but you might want to eliminate too. Maybe you've got a well, the water is safe but tastes like ass. Had one of those as a kid.

We drank and cooked with bottled water, but washed dishes, etc with well water. When you can't pick up bottled water anymore maybe the still would be a good way to refill them.

Bottom line, your attitude is 100% correct in a world where clean safe water is available from a tap. In a different world, maybe not.

 

[kev74]

Depends on how thirsty you are I guess.

Obviously if you have a choice, you don't risk it. But this thread is about a SHTF situation where you don't have a choice.

If all you've got is questionable water or death, I would run it through the still. Better odds than anything else.

If you've got a carbon filter, absolutely use it, but run the water through the still first. The carbon filter will last a lot longer and the water will taste better, and maybe it'll catch something that slipped through the distillation.

Also, unlike many filters a still doesn't have a shelf life or a limit on how many contaminates it can eliminate. You could use it for as many gallons of water as you have fuel to heat, even with heavy contamination. Could even pass it down to the grandkids in a real TEOTWAWKI situation.

There are also lots of types of contamination that aren't acutely dangerous, but you might want to eliminate too. Maybe you've got a well, the water is safe but tastes like ass. Had one of those as a kid.

We drank and cooked with bottled water, but washed dishes, etc with well water. When you can't pick up bottled water anymore maybe the still would be a good way to refill them.

Bottom line, your attitude is 100% correct in a world where clean safe water is available from a tap. In a different world, maybe not.

I agree with you as an absolute last ditch effort. But short of that, I'd go with a biological hazard over chemical if the choice was available. We know how to treat biological hazards effectively, even if the finished product is unpleasant. Chemical hazards, not so much.

 

[spat]

I agree with you as an absolute last ditch effort. But short of that, I'd go with a biological hazard over chemical if the choice was available. We know how to treat biological hazards effectively, even if the finished product is unpleasant. Chemical hazards, not so much.

Well, distillation is effective against both. I'm not sure how many biological pathogens can survive distillation, let alone manage to make it into the receiver but I bet that number is pretty small.

And let's face it, you are going to be looking at unknown quality water in any of these situations. If you've got lab results telling you what's in the water, you probably don't need homebrew filtration equipment to make it potable.

So, you're looking to drink some water from a random source you found. You don't see any obvious signs of contamination (biological or chemical) or you're going to look elsewhere. This is NY, not the desert after all, so water sources aren't hard to come by.

If you have the ability, you're going to want course filtration like a coffee filter followed by distillation and then carbon filtration for the best quality water you can get.

Obviously it's not something your carrying around in a BOB, but having the means is a good plan.

If you're bugging out to some fixed location, presumably you have secured a water source there long before the SHTF and you'll have a well you can trust or something and if filtration is required you'll have a proper setup.

Now, maybe you've settled into your bug out cabin for a long time, and your last disposable filter cartridge for your well is finished. Do you just drink the crappy water, or home brew something that doesn't depend on unobtainables like activated carbon and filter cartridges?

 

[kev74]

Well, distillation is effective against both. I'm not sure how many biological pathogens can survive distillation, let alone manage to make it into the receiver but I bet that number is pretty small.

And let's face it, you are going to be looking at unknown quality water in any of these situations. If you've got lab results telling you what's in the water, you probably don't need homebrew filtration equipment to make it potable.

So, you're looking to drink some water from a random source you found. You don't see any obvious signs of contamination (biological or chemical) or you're going to look elsewhere. This is NY, not the desert after all, so water sources aren't hard to come by.

If you have the ability, you're going to want course filtration like a coffee filter followed by distillation and then carbon filtration for the best quality water you can get.

Obviously it's not something your carrying around in a BOB, but having the means is a good plan.

If you're bugging out to some fixed location, presumably you have secured a water source there long before the SHTF and you'll have a well you can trust or something and if filtration is required you'll have a proper setup.

Now, maybe you've settled into your bug out cabin for a long time, and your last disposable filter cartridge for your well is finished. Do you just drink the crappy water, or home brew something that doesn't depend on unobtainables like activated carbon and filter cartridges?

What's the boiling point of gasoline, or fuel oil, or lawn fertilizer, or pesticides (any of them)? And can you control the temperature on your moonshine still to ensure they are separated? And did you boil the pot so much that stuff spashed into your condensor? Its not going to happen.

Its hard enough to do that under controled conditions. Relying on a still for purification without experience is like the guy who thinks he's going to be able to start a fire with a bow drill without practicing first - fun to watch, bit an excersize in frustration.

 

[spat]

What's the boiling point of gasoline, or fuel oil, or lawn fertilizer, or pesticides (any of them)? And can you control the temperature on your moonshine still to ensure they are separated? And did you boil the pot so much that stuff spashed into your condensor? Its not going to happen.

Its hard enough to do that under controled conditions. Relying on a still for purification without experience is like the guy who thinks he's going to be able to start a fire with a bow drill without practicing first - fun to watch, bit an excersize in frustration.

I didn't say not to learn WTF you're doing.

But fine, you drink the unfiltered water. I'm sure that'll be better.

We are talking about something you're pretty sure is 99.9% water to begin with.

You put it in the still, toss the first bit that comes out (the unknown low boiling contaminates) and you leave some in the pot (the high boiling contaminates).

Whatever you get out is going to be a lot better than what what you started with.

 

[technicalgadget]

Nothing is going to be 100% in single stage, single pass water processing.

In distillation, any organic compounds that boil and vaporize at temperatures lower than the boiling point of water will be vaporized along with the water, and not removed during the distillation process.

In reverse osmosis, pesticides, insecticides and herbicides are all compounds with molecules that are smaller than water, therefore, will easily pass through the reverse osmosis membrane.

Activated carbon filter efficacy depends greatly on length of time and saturation rate of the carbon. As a substrate, it will only hold so much chemicals before reaching a saturation point where those chemical will simply pass through the filter.

Either way, its all a crap shoot depending greatly on where you get your water, the type of impurities that are in the water, and filtration/purification method. I'd simply boil water from deep underground inside of a cave where water passes through multiple layers of rock and substrate. I'd be leery of trying anything with water gathered from the Citarum or Ganges river.

 

[kev74]

I didn't say not to learn WTF you're doing.

But fine, you drink the unfiltered water. I'm sure that'll be better.

We are talking about something you're pretty sure is 99.9% water to begin with.

You put it in the still, toss the first bit that comes out (the unknown low boiling contaminates) and you leave some in the pot (the high boiling contaminates).

Whatever you get out is going to be a lot better than what what you started with.

The 'toss the heads & tails' works good enough for distilling alcohol. It works because you're working with a known product to start with. For other chemicals, who knows. It might make things better or worse.

For myself, I wouldn't trust it. If I was in a pinch, I'd go with filtration, boiling and filtration through charcoal if the source was that questionable. Or filtration and chlorination if fuel for boiling was in short supply and chlorine was available.

There are no right answers - just sharing ideas to consider.

 

[spat]

The 'toss the heads & tails' works good enough for distilling alcohol. It works because you're working with a known product to start with. For other chemicals, who knows. It might make things better or worse.

For myself, I wouldn't trust it. If I was in a pinch, I'd go with filtration, boiling and filtration through charcoal if the source was that questionable. Or filtration and chlorination if fuel for boiling was in short supply and chlorine was available.

There are no right answers - just sharing ideas to consider.

Obviously with so many unknowns and restrictions it's a hazardous game to play, but if you make the assumption that what your starting with is almost all water, the odds that you are going to have some weird azetrope that happens to concentrate in the middle 80% of your distillate is going to be pretty low.

Distillation will get rid of all the biological hazards, all the sediment, and will drastically reduce most organic and inorganic contaminates.

You really want a layered defense in a situation like this, and filtration, distillation and carbon is almost guaranteed to be at least as good as filtration and carbon alone for almost anything you're likely to encounter. It will be better for many things, and in the very least will extend the life of your carbon by orders of magnitude.

What contaminate that anyone is likely to run into in a situation like this can you think of where eliminating that distillation step would improve the water quality ?

I would think the main reason to eliminate it would be if you trust the water and don't want to waste the fuel and effort. The less you know about your water the *more* you would want a distillation step.

 

[Steal2B]

The 'toss the heads & tails' works good enough for distilling alcohol. It works because you're working with a known product to start with. For other chemicals, who knows. It might make things better or worse.

For myself, I wouldn't trust it. If I was in a pinch, I'd go with filtration, boiling and filtration through charcoal if the source was that questionable. Or filtration and chlorination if fuel for boiling was in short supply and chlorine was available.

There are no right answers - just sharing ideas to consider.

Although I've been paid to make potable water from a number of sources and would be able to manage under severe circumstances, I think that in the most probable bug-out or home-out scenarios for us it will not be a panic based on availability of shallow hand pumpable wells, known natural springs, already drilled residential wells, and clean reservoirs. When the contingencies evaporate and we have to get creative to purify putrid contaminated water sources, most of the local populations would have likely already ceased to exist or we are trapped, isolated, and under seige.

 

[Acer-m14]

pick your price and have your water source tested now before SHTF .. i picked the well water section for the first link .. how will they know the water came from your closest river , stream , creek , pond ... ect..

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or

Mail-in Laboratory Water Tests Archives -

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[Acer-m14]

how about this in your tool kit .. to get water if needed ?

Bon Tool Adjustable Fire Hydrant Wrench 84-637 - The Home Depot

This Bon heavy-duty adjustable fire hydrant wrench has an overall length of 12 inches. It is designed for use on pin or rocker lug couplings. The wrench can be used to operate standard 1-3/4in pentagon

www.homedepot.com