Preparing or Hoarding?

[GOPerfect]

In regards to this...

There are multiple threads about ammo and the lack therof of finding any at a good price.

Am I a hoarder of ammo? Or, did I prepare for the unknown? I can never shoot all the ammo that I have during normal times.

Maybe I am just a good forecaster of the future. Always be prepared....

 

[MillidotShooter]

My portable generator is quite enough for the winter time- but 7500 watts isn't going to run central air in the summer, which may seem soft on my part but my wife has some health issues. So looking into standby generators.

I have the same problem... My wife also has a few med issues where she doesn't do so well in the heat. Winter is NO problem what so ever. The generator will run the Boiler and Well Pump, so we have got water and heat. The mini-panel the generator connects to also runs into some of the interior lights and outlets so we have power to some points that I can run extension cords to if necessary (which is always the case for the entertainment system, wifi, modem, freezers, etc). But the panel is not set up for 20Amp circuits (15A only) so even window A/C units trip the breakers. And this last storm knocked down power for 3 days. Hot as hell in this house without A/C. The downside to a log home... And Installing Central Air (Even Ductless) would be cost-prohibitive. And we would need a MUCH larger generator if we DID have it. My 220v 9000w 75a just wouldn't cut it. BUT, at least I can take a shower w/ hot water and watch a little TV or Bluray... Selling Next Year anyway and moving to PA. That house... IT WILL have A/C AND a Propane/Natural Gas whole-house backup generator... OR be completely Solar Powered with a Tesla Wall Battery Backup. Expensive... Sure... But well worth it.

 

[Mk44]

imo, prepping and hoarding are two different things. Hoarding is a mental illness.
Prepping.. are items that have value to you & others.

I have been prepping since 9/11. But I prep for a weather related emergencies, not because I'm worried about WW III.
I stock up on food & supplies. And keep a good amount of ammo around, enough to hold down the fort. I try to avoid owning a gazillion rounds of ammo because I know I won't/ can't take it all with me if I have to leave.
If there's another hurricane Sandy, I may have to evacuate and I'm not going to take everything (firearms & ammo) with me (It's not going to fit.)
Sure, you can say I'm not leaving. But what happens when the water rises or a forest fire comes and you can't stop it?
When hurricane Sandy hit, some folks found themselves on their rooftop or in their attic because their house was under water. All they had left was the cloths on their back. What did they save by staying?
After Sandy several friends said their guns were damaged (beyond repair) from the flood & mud. A member (in Puerto Rico) on another forum said he lost several cases of ammo because the hurricane left it submerged in water for days and he didn't feel safe using it.

Everyone's idea of how much ammo you'll need is going to vary. Hundred of thousands rounds may be excessive to one person, but not enough for another. You have to decide what's best for you. If you compete or an avid shooter, you'll go through a lot of ammo.

 

[FrankenCub]

I don't think there is a fine line for ammo. If someone has 1m rounds, good for them! Ammo will be worth more than gold when SHTF. I'm not in s position to keep a healthy stock of ammo much less hoard any. Seriously, I would be lucky to have 400 or 500 rounds at any givin time. Not good. SHTF and I'm fucked. 500 rounds won't last long.

 

[BuffNiag]

SHTF and I'm fucked. 500 rounds won't last long.

What are you going to need it for though? Unless you have tens of shooters defending your property, I just can't see how you would need that much. Either A.) There will be one or two intruders and you will quickly eliminate the threat with 10 or so rounds or B.) there will be a mob and you might be able to take out a half dozen or so but then you will quickly be overwhelmed. If you are on foot, you probably won't want to carry more than 200 rounds. I just don't see a SHTF scenarion where one would NEED thousands of rounds, although it does feel good to keep that much on hand.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Prepping and hoarding are indeed two different things. But one becomes a hoarder when they prep far beyond whatever situation or situations they are prepping for and continue to buy more and more only because of the compulsion to do so. Then it starts to turn into an illness.

For example. You are prepping for a storm like a hurricane and all the way up to the extreme far to the right SHTF zombie apocalypse which is code word for all out anarchy. You buy 100,000 rounds of .223. 100,000 rounds of 9mm. That should be the end of it right. That should cover a sustained battle on your two primary weapons that you probably would more than likely not survive if you expended an 8th of it. No. Now you start the path to buy 100,000 rounds of 20 gauge for your kid’s bird gun. After that, you start working on buying the same amount for the old 30/30 that never gets used. You just keep buying. It is no longer serving a purpose but every time you see ammo come back in stock, you buy more. And more. And more. And more. No plans on selling it no matter what you tell yourself because you just keep buying more. So now you got a new .338 Lapua for your once a year hunt in Montana. You buy more and more for that with the goal of reaching 100,000 for that as well despite the fact that you only fire 50 rounds through it a year to check zero and go on your hunt. But you have to reach that 100,000 mark.

It’s an obsessive compulsion and it’s no different than the old lady who collects bags even though she has closets full of them. But you see her going through garbage cans to get more. Just because you are clean, doesn’t mean that you do not have a compulsion.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

The only thing I have 100,000 of are Black Labrador retriever hairs.


They killed a vacuum bot.

 

[Chevusa]

What are you going to need it for though? Unless you have tens of shooters defending your property, I just can't see how you would need that much. Either A.) There will be one or two intruders and you will quickly eliminate the threat with 10 or so rounds or B.) there will be a mob and you might be able to take out a half dozen or so but then you will quickly be overwhelmed. If you are on foot, you probably won't want to carry more than 200 rounds. I just don't see a SHTF scenarion where one would NEED thousands of rounds, although it does feel good to keep that much on hand.

The biggest benefit to having tons and tons of ammo is if the supply dries up completely then you are set for a very long time.

 

[Jchrisls]

Not to be rude, but I ask only for the sake of discussing. Statistically, from what I was able to ascertain, the average number of rounds fired in a self defense situation by an average citizen is from 3-7 rounds per incident. Merging what I was able to find regarding those at a higher propensity to actually discharge a firearm in a self defense situation ( LEO'S), of career LEO'S, on average only 24% of them even fire for self defense. This should help focus the lens that the average citizen is far less likely to have a self defense encounter than an LEO. That's said, if the statistically lower chance private citizen has a situation, on the high end, expending 7 rounds in the encounter, the likelihood that, in a lifetime someone would need to defend themselves nearly 715 times to have a need for 5000 rounds.

Based on an average lifespan of 85 years, and the obtaining of a firearm at age 18, that would break down to be a deadly force encounter once approximately every 5 weeks, give or take.

This of course doesn't deduct for practice, but does kind of point out at least one thing.

If I need to defend myself 715 times in my neighborhood in my lifetime.....I better move.

I would certainly save on ammo.

 

[Chevusa]

Not to be rude, but I ask only for the sake of discussing. Statistically, from what I was able to ascertain, the average number of rounds fired in a self defense situation by an average citizen is from 3-7 rounds per incident. Merging what I was able to find regarding those at a higher propensity to actually discharge a firearm in a self defense situation ( LEO'S), of career LEO'S, on average only 24% of them even fire for self defense. This should help focus the lens that the average citizen is far less likely to have a self defense encounter than an LEO. That's said, if the statistically lower chance private citizen has a situation, on the high end, expending 7 rounds in the encounter, the likelihood that, in a lifetime someone would need to defend themselves nearly 715 times to have a need for 5000 rounds.

Based on an average lifespan of 85 years, and the obtaining of a firearm at age 18, that would break down to be a deadly force encounter once approximately every 5 weeks, give or take.

This of course doesn't deduct for practice, but does kind of point out at least one thing.

If I need to defend myself 715 times in my neighborhood in my lifetime.....I better move.

I would certainly save on ammo.

The stats are 3 shots in 3 seconds at 3 yards...

But this is not what we are talking about here.

We are preparing for bad times.

For civil unrest.

For violent mobs (like you see on tv already).

For when the socialist extremists are in power.

This has nothing to do with an average everyday SD encounter.

Those were the good old days.

The country as we know it is going through drastic change.

Be prepared.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Anybody ever watch the documentary called Restrepo? It was about an airborne unit in the Korangal Valley in Afghanistan. They were in an outpost that got attacked daily by sniper fire, mortars, and rocket fire. Even they didn’t expend 100,000 rounds of ammunition. And they had fixed M240 Bravos mounted on tripods in all directions. Constant patrols from outside the wire of the outpost and defense of the outpost itself didn’t go through so many rounds.

But if one thinks they’ll use that much defending their home and town in a suburb of Rochester or Albany for example, well one watches too many movies or plays too many video games.

 

[fresch]

I think you missed the barter component and the just because I can parts.

 

[Chevusa]

Anybody ever watch the documentary called Restrepo? It was about an airborne unit in the Korangal Valley in Afghanistan. They were in an outpost that got attacked daily by sniper fire, mortars, and rocket fire. Even they didn’t expend 100,000 rounds of ammunition. And they had fixed M240 Bravos mounted on tripods in all directions. Constant patrols from outside the wire of the outpost and defense of the outpost itself didn’t go through so many rounds.

But if one thinks they’ll use that much defending their home and town in a suburb of Rochester or Albany for example, well one watches too many movies or plays too many video games.

Ask them if they were never able to buy more if they would want to stock a lot or a little.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ask them if they were never able to buy more if they would want to stock a lot or a little.

They were an elite military unit fighting a war in an outpost under constant fire. What does that have to do with civil unrest in Buffalo?

 

[Chevusa]

They were an elite military unit fighting a war in an outpost under constant fire. What does that have to do with civil unrest in Buffalo?

Who's to say people are stocking ammo for a large assault? What if they are stocking up because it may not be available to get or will be very hard to get in the future?

 

[fresch]

I think you missed the "can buy more" part.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Who's to say people are stocking ammo for a large assault? What if they are stocking up because it may not be available to get or will be very hard to get in the future?

And in that unlikely event that ammo manufacturing completely stops, I’ll give you that that unlikely scenario happens, are you still going to fire hundreds of thousands of rounds? Are you going to be the only guy shooting thousands of rounds in your backyard making a target of yourself when no one else has resupply when now you may only fire a few hundred a year?

If you do and don’t hang low, you are a fool. Because me and my friends if we were criminals or the government would take it from you if you advertised that you had that much ammo.

 

[Chevusa]

And in that unlikely event that ammo manufacturing completely stops, I’ll give you that that unlikely scenario happens, are you still going to fire hundreds of thousands of rounds? Are you going to be the only guy shooting thousands of rounds in your backyard making a target of yourself when no one else has resupply when now you may only fire a few hundred a year?

If you do and don’t hang low, you are a fool. Because me and my friends if we were criminals or the government would take it from you if you advertised that you had that much ammo.

It would be worth its weight in gold to acquire other things though. And who knows. Maybe you’ve gotta do that and have enough to last your lifetime for hunting/protection uses. This is mostly for a Zombie Apocalypse situation. Which is still possible in 2020.

 

[spat]

What are you going to need it for though? Unless you have tens of shooters defending your property, I just can't see how you would need that much. Either A.) There will be one or two intruders and you will quickly eliminate the threat with 10 or so rounds or B.) there will be a mob and you might be able to take out a half dozen or so but then you will quickly be overwhelmed. If you are on foot, you probably won't want to carry more than 200 rounds. I just don't see a SHTF scenarion where one would NEED thousands of rounds, although it does feel good to keep that much on hand.

Or maybe you need to continue to practice if you want to maintain proficiency ?

How many rounds per month does it take ?

 

[FrankenCub]

What are you going to need it for though? Unless you have tens of shooters defending your property, I just can't see how you would need that much. Either A.) There will be one or two intruders and you will quickly eliminate the threat with 10 or so rounds or B.) there will be a mob and you might be able to take out a half dozen or so but then you will quickly be overwhelmed. If you are on foot, you probably won't want to carry more than 200 rounds. I just don't see a SHTF scenarion where one would NEED thousands of rounds, although it does feel good to keep that much on hand.

If a SHTF comes up, 1 or 2 intruders may be every other day. There would likely be 1000's of people looking to grab what they can wherever they can. Maybe not the first couple weeks in, but a month in shits gonna get scarce fast. My 500 rounds don't even cover training! Before I messed my back up and had a consistent paycheck, I'd easily go through 500 rounds a week in my handgun alone. And you didn't quote the part where I mentioned ammo will be worth more than gold.
You want a nice fat steak for dinner some night, no problem, trade 50 rounds to a farmer for one. Huge barter incentive. I wouldn't complain about having 100k rounds.

 

[spat]

And in that unlikely event that ammo manufacturing completely stops, I’ll give you that that unlikely scenario happens, are you still going to fire hundreds of thousands of rounds? Are you going to be the only guy shooting thousands of rounds in your backyard making a target of yourself when no one else has resupply when now you may only fire a few hundred a year?

If you do and don’t hang low, you are a fool. Because me and my friends if we were criminals or the government would take it from you if you advertised that you had that much ammo.

If you want to become the local warlord to prevent someone else from doing it, maybe 100k rounds and a few dozen ARs would be good.

You're going to have your hands full with political problems, if you can eliminate supply issues that will make your life a lot easier.

 

[repete]

I have a sister that is a hoarder, she's 65 single and has thousands and thousands of Mason jars. Not collectable ones just plain jane type canning jars, she could never fill them with anything other than the news papers and magazine's she has piled up! She literlly has pathways though the rooms of her home.
Me, I have a lot of shit and some I may never get to use but I'm no way near her level!

 

[Marine Cpl]

If you want to become the local warlord to prevent someone else from doing it, maybe 100k rounds and a few dozen ARs would be good.

You're going to have your hands full with political problems, if you can eliminate supply issues that will make your life a lot easier.

If you want to increase your chances of living, being a warlord isn’t the smartest path. You are always a target. The grey man that appears to not be a threat to anyone will certainly outlive a warlord.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

The most famous hoarders were the Collier brothers. When a fire officer tells the chief "we have a collier's mansion", it means trouble. I stunk so bad from old burning panty hose one job my driver wouldn't let me or my forcible entry man back on the rig with our clothes on. Stripped us naked in the street, hosed us down and threw our gear under the ladder for the ride back to quarters. Sent the gear out for decontamination. I guess there is a TV show about hoarders. Some people just get overwhelmed by life and can't find a way out of their troubles.

Just about 3 years ago my wife filed for divorce, my brother died, and my youngest who was working as a biotechnologist in VA came home with all her stuff and left for school in Scotland without any of it. My son had moved back from graduate school the year before and I bought a shed to put his stuff in, "Patrick's Little Red Shed".

The ex-wife left a lot of stuff here, and I had to figure out what to do with my brothers things which came from several houses, apartments and bungalows he owned.(He was a pretty well off bachelor) There had to be 40 new suits, mens coats, leather jackets, and more than 3000 books and hundreds of classical music CD's.

I bought my wife out of the house and I hired a moving company to bring everything to my house, my sisters just wanted to put everything in there dumpster.

There were so many boxes I was just overwhelmed. I got the new suits, brand new in packages dress shirts underwear and socks to the VA at Castle Point. They also got the books of mine that I knew my brother had copies of. They got 100 music CD's, All in all 2 pickup truck loads.

The girlfriend didn't help. I'm trying to get rid of stuff and she's moving her things in bit by bit. I've had to break up with her twice because she just keeps trying to move in.

I have a good week when the garbage truck comes by I have two full cans for him to take. Thank God the dump reopened. I bring a load once a month. There were 7 bags of Christmas wrapping paper and gift boxes in the storage crawl space in the basement!

The house is more manageable now. It's still too big for me to take care of by myself, but it's not overwhelming anymore. I'm going to give in 2 or 3 more years to give all the family time to claim what they want and then I'm going to sell the place (a 4 bedroom center hall colonial) and build myself a smaller place on adjacent land I own.

My brother's books included a few in wax sealed wrapping and boxes from a rare book dealer in London. He loved London and went there twice a year on business. He used real silver service for his everyday cutlery. Tons of photos of my parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents when they were young. I bought 5 new bookcases and now I have the "Hugh Michael ******* Memorial Library. I have 39 books on Churchill.

If you have someone who is overwhelmed with too much stuff, don't give them anything, only take!

Next up for disposal are 2 small antique cabinets. I've e-mailed photos to a dealer and am waiting on a reply, after that is an antique brass bed.

I remember on one of the financial shows years ago a woman talked of an economic collapse and said "If that happens we'll be burning the furniture in the fireplace to keep warm!"

Sorry for the vent.

Life is Good. Love to all.

 

[dsdmmat]

In regards to this...

There are multiple threads about ammo and the lack therof of finding any at a good price.

Am I a hoarder of ammo? Or, did I prepare for the unknown? I can never shoot all the ammo that I have during normal times.

Maybe I am just a good forecaster of the future. Always be prepared....

it is only hoarding if you have an emotional attachment to the items. If not it is collecting or stockpiling.

 

[Jchrisls]

it is only hoarding if you have an emotional attachment to the items. If not it is collecting or stockpiling.

Perfectly said.

 

[spat]

If you want to increase your chances of living, being a warlord isn’t the smartest path. You are always a target. The grey man that appears to not be a threat to anyone will certainly outlive a warlord.

Depends on who does become the local warlord.

Also, many people have goals beyond just "dying as late as possible".

 

[Elwood]

Depends on who does become the local warlord.

Also, many people have goals beyond just "dying as late as possible".

We have cannolis

 

[GOPerfect]

it is only hoarding if you have an emotional attachment to the items. If not it is collecting or stockpiling.

I like that! Thanks.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I don’t think old ladies that hoard plastic bags have an emotional attachment to the bags. They just have a strong compulsion to keep getting more.