Good shoot or bad shoot? You judge (vid)

[C3D]

View attachment Robbery.mp4

 

[fresch]

Did he hit any of them?

 

[spat]

They were leaving and it appeared that the threat was ending.

So, it was dumb to shoot then.

There were 2 armed assailants, did this guy really want to get into a gunfight that could have been avoided by just standing there for another 30 secs ?

He also dumped the mag and apparently didn't hit anything worth shooting. Who knows where those rounds ended up, but I'm sure the owner of the properties aren't going to be happy about the repairs they will need to do.

So not only dumb, but incompetent.

As for legality, that depends on where this happened. At the very least the shooter should be on the hook for the repairs.

 

[fnfalguy]

From what was presented, absolutely not a situation where I would have shot when he did. They were leaving and essentially the threat had passed. Be a good witness at that point. A wallet and car can be replaced. Best case scenario, he hit one and then still gets to pay an attorney to see if justifiable shoot. Again. Material items can be replaced. Threaten myself or those close to me and its probably a different scenario.

Couldn't tell what the traffic looked like outdoors to see if others were in line of fire.

Legality is going to depend on where this occurred so I'm not going to opine on that.

 

[togmaster]

The chicken shit was wrong.

 

[Phazer]

The criminals were leaving. Armed citizen fired at the criminals and sent stray shots through the door and glass onto a public street.

My opinion: Poor decision to shoot (at that time).

 

[spat]

From what was presented, absolutely not a situation where I would have shot when he did. They were leaving and essentially the threat had passed. Be a good witness at that point. A wallet and car can be replaced. Best case scenario, he hit one and then still gets to pay an attorney to see if justifiable shoot. Again. Material items can be replaced. Threaten myself or those close to me and its probably a different scenario.

Couldn't tell what the traffic looked like outdoors to see if others were in line of fire.

Legality is going to depend on where this occurred so I'm not going to opine on that.

The damage the shooter caused will probably cost more to repair than the thugs were getting anyway.

"thanks for getting that $200 they were stealing back, now I just need $5000 to repair the damage you did doing it"

 

[fnfalguy]

@spat I agree. Sort of reminds me of a simunitions force on force class I previously took. At the time I was living in Texas so legally there were a bunch of different RoE. Scenario was robbery of home at zero dark 30. Home owner woke up and found robber in house hauling out owners big screen TV. Long enough ago that it wasn't one of today's lightweight jobbies. In the scenario, the owner shot the robber through the TV. During debrief, question was asked why did you do that and the explanation was I was within my rights.

Then a deeper discussion was held regarding what was the threat at the time the trigger was pulled, where were the robbers hands (holding up the 75+ lb TV) and how quickly could they have gotten to a weapon, and then the cost associated with taking a life, whether financially, morally, etc. Is the TV worth it? That is one of the many trainings that have stuck with me over the years.

 

[fresch]

When I lived in Texas 1976-1980 I talked to the cops, she said just be sure they are at least in the doorway when we get there.

 

[tirwin1]

Bad shoot. What if instead of running the two criminals turned around, returned fire, and hit one of the other people in the store? The scumbags were leaving and everyone was still alive.

 

[GOPerfect]

I would have shot during this situation.

I would like to say, first and foremost, I would have hit and stopped both of them.

Second, I would not have shot after they were leaving and the threat was gone. You shoot to stop the threat, not to be a cowboy.

I vote for not a good shoot and he will be prosecuted under the law. (Depending on the State in which this occurred)

 

[spat]

I would have shot during this situation.

I would like to say, first and foremost, I would have hit and stopped both of them.

Second, I would not have shot after they were leaving and the threat was gone. You shoot to stop the threat, not to be a cowboy.

I vote for not a good shoot and he will be prosecuted under the law. (Depending on the State in which this occurred)

I think we all agree there was a point during the encounter when he would have been fully justified in shooting.

That point had long passed before he decided to draw however.

Whether there was a point when it was both tactically sound and justified at the same time I am not sure, I'd have to rewatch a bit more.

 

[fnfalguy]

I agree with you @GOPerfect but wasn't going to add "but we don't know what the beginning looked like" or something like that. What were the warning triggers leading up to this when someone could have gotten a gun out initially. From what we saw, it would have been a worse scene to try and out draw on a drawn gun (unless the two yutes were demonstrating willingness to harm immediately). Even more so when they closed distance on him. Doesnt take much skill to hit someone at a distance of a foot or two, especially with Mr. Murphy assisting.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Not only a bad shoot. But it was bad at the shoot

 

[Cooolone]

Of course, the question (OP) is out of context as the location isn't given! And "THAT" is extremely relevant to answering the question! One size doesn't fit all... Just sayin!

That said, If he was such a fucking hero why didn't he follow them to make sure they weren't a threat to anyone else? Why shoot and then turn your back to where the threat was? How did he know they weren't now going to come back? What a putz!

Bad shoot... And he had opportunity while they were both at the register to draw, or not, and as noted, just let them take the $ and leave as they were. By firing when he did, he potentially escalated the situation he wasn't entirely in control of... If he drew his firearm and fired on them while they were at the register, he would have the surprise and if he had been a good shot, would have in all probability taken them both out with one magazine.

Of course, this is from the keyboard view, so forgive any and all miscalculations and they're just opinion.

Carry on, be safe out there!

 

[libertysnake]

This is also a two on one scenario. Not odds you want if avoidable. Also he has no form of cover / they have all visual (maybe hard as well?) cover.

This is also after the fact on our part, but it's important we all learn from these so we make better choices as a group.

 

[Robin]

I wonder if he hit either of them? Seems like one of you tech guru's could find the source of the tape, then the story behind it.
Robin

 

[Edwardteach72]

Active self protection did a whole video on this shoot.. I sadly can't find it

 

[meketrefe]

They were leaving and it appeared that the threat was ending.

So, it was dumb to shoot then.

There were 2 armed assailants, did this guy really want to get into a gunfight that could have been avoided by just standing there for another 30 secs ?

He also dumped the mag and apparently didn't hit anything worth shooting. Who knows where those rounds ended up, but I'm sure the owner of the properties aren't going to be happy about the repairs they will need to do.

So not only dumb, but incompetent.

As for legality, that depends on where this happened. At the very least the shooter should be on the hook for the repairs.

People are just so fvcking stupid.

Option A) die in the attempt. The rifle guy could have returned the favor across the glass and pop him with little effort but the thugs are probably smarter than the victim.
Option B) Get seriously hurt and end up in a wheel chair or worse. On top deal with the law suits.
Option C) Get one or both of the guys and then after police reviewed the video decide to charge him for manslaughter and/or deal with the
civil lawsuits from the "poor" victims families.
Option D) someone else gets hurt in that location because of his actions they could go after him as well.

The most important weapon one has is the brain although not many train to use it.

 

[meketrefe]

Other (explain)
Explanation? this guy has an IQ between 0 and -10

 

[fnfalguy]

Just watched it again. Didn’t notice it the first time, he was carrying chamber empty.

 

[kev74]

I clicked "good", but am conflicted about it.

I don't like that they all got lined up along a wall - that looks like an execution waiting to happen.

At 0:28/0:29, when he started the draw, it was the instance they turned away and were still nearly within arms length of the shooter and arguably still a threat.

I'm reluctant to criticize him, but he would be better served with some training and a lot of practice. I'm glad he didn't start shooting when they were behind the register. That would have gotten messy.

I cant tell if the second bad guy went down right outside the door or not.

 

[cgrutt]

Active self protection did a whole video on this shoot.. I sadly can't find it

 

[Edwardteach72]

Thars the one

 

[Acer-m14]

while the 2 robbers were behind the counter drooling over the cash was the time the CCW should have slowly got his gun out ..

 

[Darth]

Too late of a shot.

Chamber should be loaded.

 

[Acer-m14]

I like watching Active self protection videos .. but the one thing i really hate is when he says .. everyone should carry unless your prohibited .. WTF !!!!
the 2 robbing the fkin store really one with a gun .. what the fuck is going to stop that more fking gun laws ..

 

[Darth]

I like watching Active self protection videos .. but the one thing i really hate is when he says .. everyone should carry unless your prohibited .. WTF !!!!
the 2 robbing the fkin store really one with a gun .. what the fuck is going to stop that more fking gun laws ..

I don't understand your disagreement.

 

[Acer-m14]

I don't understand your disagreement.

the 2 robbing are probably prohibited but have a gun .. so his statement is the same as im for 2A BUT!!! ..

 

[Darth]

the 2 robbing are probably prohibited but have a gun .. so his statement is the same as im for 2A BUT!!! ..

...so everyone should carry unless prohibited.

I agree with that personally...