2 Men charged with murder of unarmed man Ahmaud Arbery in GA

[Marine Cpl]

This begs the question. Your neighbors are out on vacation. They could be friends or family. You are fond of them. You see a break in just as you are pulling into your driveway. 2am. They are walking out with a TV.

Do you engage them and perform a citizens’s arrest where this could happen or just call the police and follow?

 

[Bob]

Unfortunately thinking someone broke a law is not someone breaking a law. Bottom line, it has to be a felony. If you do not know what a felony is, don’t play police officer. It could go very badly for you.

Except it doesn’t have to be a felony committed in your presence in order to effect an arrest as a private person. It can be any crime (felony or misdemeanor) committed within your presence, or with immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is fleeing, an arrest can be effected based upon “probable grounds of suspicion”

 

[Darth]

Except it doesn’t have to be a felony committed in your presence in order to effect an arrest as a private person. It can be any crime (felony or misdemeanor) committed within your presence, or with immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is fleeing, an arrest can be effected based upon “probable grounds of suspicion”

So could a self defense scenario of preventing your own kidnapping /rape.

I've seen quite enough videos that start out "Hey there little lady, what's a purdy girl like you doing wandering alone 'round these parts. You been a bad girl have you? Let me cuff you up real quick and take you back to jail. You're fittin' to get real familiar with the penal system..."

 

[Bob]

So could a self defense scenario of preventing your own kidnapping /rape.

I've made enough videos that start out "Hey there little boy, what's a purdy boy like you doing wandering alone 'round these parts. You been a bad boy have you? Let me cuff you up real quick and take you back to jail. You're fittin' to get real familiar with the penal system..."

Fixed it for you.

 

[Darth]

Fixed it for you.

OK, now that's hot.

 

[camper4lyfe]

It needs to be a felony to conduct a citizens arrest.

It is almost universally a bad idea to try to conduct a citizens arrest no matter what you think they did.

It does not need to be anything to try to have a conversation.

AND it has to be WITNESSED. That never happened in this case. The only thing they witnessed was him leaving the house. Allegedly.

 

[GOPerfect]

This begs the question. Your neighbors are out on vacation. They could be friends or family. You are fond of them. You see a break in just as you are pulling into your driveway. 2am. They are walking out with a TV.

Do you engage them and perform a citizens’s arrest where this could happen or just call the police and follow?

Me? I get directly involved

 

[Robin]

Well Pete, there I was, out shopping for used power tools, when................
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

Except it doesn’t have to be a felony committed in your presence in order to effect an arrest as a private person. It can be any crime (felony or misdemeanor) committed within your presence, or with immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is fleeing, an arrest can be effected based upon “probable grounds of suspicion”

Depends on the state. In Georgia it has to be a felony. In other states it can be a misdemeanor. In certain states, it has to be a violent felony.

 

[Bob]

Depends on the state. In Georgia it has to be a felony. In other states it can be a misdemeanor. In certain states, it has to be a violent felony.

Again, incorrect. It does not have to be a felony in Georgia.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Again, incorrect. It does not have to be a felony in Georgia.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS :: § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

law.justia.com

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

 

[Bob]

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS :: § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

law.justia.com

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Two different statements that stand alone. They are separated by a thing we call "punctuation" in the firm of a period. We learned about this rule in grade school.

First statement: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."
Second statement: " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"

Are you not capable of admitting that you're wrong?

 

[Edwardteach72]

Two different statements that stand alone. They are separated by a thing we call "punctuation" in the firm of a period. We learned about this rule in grade school.

First statement: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."
Second statement: " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"

Are you not capable of admitting that you're wrong?

What law school did you graduate from?

 

[Bob]

What law school did you graduate from?

You don't need a law degree to understand basic grammar.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You don't need a law degree to understand basic grammar.

But it may help to under stand how laws are written/worded.

So again where did YOU go to law school?

 

[Bob]

But it may help to under stand how laws are written/worded.

So again where did YOU go to law school?

I didn't. I don't need to. But I'll bet someone at the Georgia Legal Services Program did.

"Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. "

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources

Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program

www.georgialegalaid.org

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

It's almost never either or. How about just call the police? Why would you give chase? Maybe try to get a plate before they ride off. Now if you witness an actual kidnapping that's a different story IMO. I would definitely give chase. But for a TV? Hell no! There's very little that would make a rational person give chase armed and looking to detain someone.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I didn't. I don't need to. But I'll bet someone at the Georgia Legal Services Program did.

"Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. "

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources

Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program

www.georgialegalaid.org

So you never went to law school.

I'm guessing you never took the BAR exam? Is that a fair guess lol

But yet YOU know how to read the law better than Noir who, well guess what he is.

 

[Bob]

So you never went to law school.

I'm guessing you never took the BAR exam? Is that a fair guess lol

But yet YOU know how to read the law better than Noir who, well guess what he is.

Noir quoted the statute verbatim and then explained that none of the criteria were met. At no time did he state that Georgia required the offense to be a felony.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Noir quoted the statute verbatim and then explained that none of the criteria were met. At no time did he state that Georgia required the offense to be a felony.

So. He "qoeted the statur verbatim"

"Then explained that none of the criteria were met"

So how is this justification for them to make a citizens arrest?

 

[Bob]

So. He "qoeted the statur verbatim"

"Then explained that none of the criteria were met"

So how is this justification for them to make a citizens arrest?

It is not.
Nor was I arguing that they were justified in what they did. I was simply pointing out an error that Will kept reasserting.

 

[Edwardteach72]

It is not.
Nor was I arguing that they were justified in what they did. I was simply pointing out an error that Will kept reasserting.

My bad I got posts mixed up thinking that you were saying they are justified in doing a citizens arrests

 

[Blimey]

Just saw this. I didn't think i wanted to make a new thread about it, but it shows to me the importance of maybe not trying to insert yourself into the middle of situations you don't need to. I am pretty confident based on what was said here and the way the driver was conducting himself that these guys were just being idiots (despite not seeing what happened before recording). He is in an actual delivery truck. I'm also glad he didn't tell them anything and kept ignoring their "just one question" crap.

Black delivery driver held against his will by a white HOA president

Travis Miller (right) finished making a delivery in Oklahoma City on Monday when he noticed that he was being prevented from leaving the gated community by David Stewart (left).

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Robin]

After eight pages, I have determined that no one know the right and wrong of it and there is no right and wrong to it.
Robin

 

[Blimey]

After eight pages, I have determined that no one know the right and wrong of it and there is no right and wrong to it.
Robin

Yea but you forgot that half a dozen of us are now experts on georgian property law.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Two different statements that stand alone. They are separated by a thing we call "punctuation" in the firm of a period. We learned about this rule in grade school.

First statement: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."
Second statement: " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"

Are you not capable of admitting that you're wrong?

I see what you are seeing regarding the law. Now insert what happened here and apply it to the law.

First statement: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."

Trespassing. They didn’t see him break or steal anything. They also aren’t the owners. Only an owner can tell a trespasser to leave. The owner did not tell the trespasser to leave.


Now let’s look at the 2nd statement.

Second statement: " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"

The Offense they thought he committed without them actually seeing it wasn’t a felony. So those two guys have no reasonable suspicion to arrest him.

 

[Blimey]

I see what you are seeing regarding the law. Now insert what happened here and apply it to the law.

First statement: "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."

Trespassing. They didn’t see him break or steal anything. They also aren’t the owners. Only an owner can tell a trespasser to leave. The owner did not tell the trespasser to leave.


Now let’s look at the 2nd statement.

Second statement: " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"

The Offense they thought he committed without them actually seeing it wasn’t a felony. So those two guys have no reasonable suspicion to arrest him.

For the record we established yesterday, per Georgia law, that he did trespass, as the owner had a no trespassing sign up. This was a misdemeanor though, so as you point out not legally qualified for a citizen’s arrest.

 

[Marine Cpl]

For the record we established yesterday, per Georgia law, that he did trespass, as the owner had a no trespassing sign up. This was a misdemeanor though, so as you point out not legally qualified for a citizen’s arrest.

Did he? Because that doesn’t show up anywhere. And the owners themselves said that they saw him but did not call the cops.

If they really did have a sign and I missed it then I’m wrong.

 

[holdover]

Nobody here has all the facts yet. Things are going to change still. Im interested in the actual court case now. Theres an old saying that the law is not black and white, its grey. There's a lot of fuzzy areas , I can see the arguments both ways , but its going to take a team of lawyers a jury and a judge to determine what happened that day , and if it was legal or not.

 

[Glenn B]

Frigging some circus is this thread. I will not comment, in this thread, on what I think about this case because of that.