$3000 vs $1000 AR

[Marine Cpl]

I saw this video and it was pretty interesting.


Notes. I have experienced the issue the one guy had with the slight magnification of the optic.

For a cheaper red dot alternative, I've had the Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot for some time now and it is just as good as the Aimpoint Micro for about $300 dollars less with mount included.

 

[Darth]

But what.

About.


MUH CHART!?

 

[Darth]

That's a bit of an old reference, but back in the old NYF days, when I joined NYF, I got shit on for not buying a (rifle of the day) because the "excel spreadsheet" said NO!

I called BS day one, and have been reinforced since day 1.

 

[Acer-m14]

i kinda stopped watching them vids .. made it 1/4 into then closed it .. can't have that in NY .. so i wouldn't pay 100 bucks for any neutered AR

 

[Darth]

I would, then I'd remove that shit.

 

[Acer-m14]

shhhhh Darth .. they might hear ... dang now i gotta hide the 80% lower LOL

 

[Darth]

You mean you Christmas tree ornament?

(I hope you get this reference, because Amazon did that for a while...)

xD

 

[Acer-m14]

yep .. got my bookends .. so classy .. and art worthy

 

[Darth]

yep .. got my bookends .. so classy .. and art worthy

Paperweights as well.

 

[Celt]

I just saw that vid yesterday. Losing that extra 1/2lb isnt worth 2grand in my book.. but if u have the $ to burn, why not.

 

[Acer-m14]

sure if u had the $$$ .. but if i had the $$$ to burn it would be for something like this ..

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I've had the Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot for some time now and it is just as good as the Aimpoint Micro

Just as good as the Aimpoint? Come on! That's a pretty heavy claim. Is that just your opinion or have you tested and some vigorous way?

I do not doubt that the other optic is good, it turns on, it holds zero and it functions on someone's rifle under light use and "normal conditions. ". And I would also agree that is a good option for some people. But again, is this your opinion or have you done vigorous testings to support this claim "that is is as good "?

I would be interested in your testing results including dropping from a height onto a hard surface, exposing it to freezing temps, exposing it to extreme hot, having an underwater, using it in fog and rain, and some other basic abuses that it would be subjected to it for testing purposes.

Thanks for doing that kind of testing I look forward to the results.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Here are some basic tests. I'm convinced that just like the swagways many of these optics are made in the same factories in china and you are paying for the name. But I think the real question becomes will you ever be using these things in anything other than "normal conditions"?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I think the real question becomes will you ever be using these things in anything other than "normal conditions"?

Thx GSB.

We probably will never use them outside of normal conditions, but it is nice toknow that the one time you do it wont be fucked after than.

ie: ups drops the package. Baggage handlers abuse your luggage. It rains. You go for a swim. A storm rolls in. Idaho moon dust blows up. Etc etc.

Everytime i run a major 3 gun match there seems to be horrific weather.....go figure.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thanks gun_slinger_boy. I only knew about the first video. The other two, I didn't know about.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thanks gun_slinger_boy. I only knew about the first video. The other two, I didn't know about.

Actually, I guess I didn't see the first video either. This is the one I saw. Even with the cracked glass, "It fucking holds zero!" Scroll to 2.20.

 

[meketrefe]

Typical mistakes from those two.

IMO these are the things where they made mistakes:

Expensive build:
- JP bolt does nothing for you. There are better bolts for less money. Hard to find a better bolt than Young manufacturing
who cut bolts for their brand and other top brands, and cut bolts for JP themselves.
- Worse barrel choice ever. The Black Hole weaponry is a hit and miss situation. They can produce a decent barrel and the next
be totally off. For the best materials and machining he could have gone to the Lothar Walter shop and spend the same
in a LW50 barrel or even a krieger 5r or lilja barrels that are the best one can buy if you are going to spend that money.
The titanium nut and gas block is actually a good thing because they will last for ever and never rust.
- There are trigger groups out there for 100 and less that do the same thing as any 200 dollar trigger.
- With the saved money he could have a more versatile sights and optics. A red dot is putting a huge limit on an AR no matter what
brand.

Budget build:
Budget lower and upper are fine. Brands do not matter that much as soon as they are properly cut up to spec. They are just a shell.
The BCG was a mistake. He could have gone with any of the budget bolts like aim, psa, etc.. some melonited and add the arp bolt
that is proven to never break. ARP also has a light barrel melonited with 5R that is hard to beat for the price.
The rails I would have used a ultra light inexpensive one like UTG pro or even more modest and skip the Midwest.
The midwest steel barrel nuts are heavier and parkerizing is poor so they rust easily. They are not bad handguards but why.
I challenge anyone to find a better handguard than the UTG pro or chandlerwoods both made in the USA and for a budget rifle...
Matrix 15'' Charlie Keymod Hand Guard
You don't need to buy a spring set for a trigger. Simply take the group out, lap it and then condition the springs to your liking
and will end up with the same results as $150-$200 triggers. Assuming the trigger group is properly heat treated and up to spec
and not one of those crap bottom of the barrel like R-guns.
BTE gas block micro is the best choice. It is very light, strong clamp vs. set screw and affordable.


Red dots are fine and many alternative brands can be very rugged. Many brands are made by the same OEM manufactures anyway.
There is no much to it. they can have a strong casing there is no erector tube and do not have moving lenses so they all can take a beating.
The issue is how much the battery lasts and eventually if you are out of battery they are a paper weight.
Red dots limit the potential of the AR. The AR can be very accurate and the red dot puts a limit on what one can do wiht the AR15.
Even a dangerous game 1-4 optic will improve, they are light, affordable, reliable and can take a beating. Some have a
iluminated dot but if the battery goes one still has something useful.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Damn. They really beat the shit out of that rifle (as they always do). I really enjoy Robski's reviews. I was gonna put up a longevity review but I don't think this dude has Robski beat. He talks about the battery longevity and also an interesting incident with the red dot so I guess it's still worth a view.

 

[Cleck]

I'm a fan of red dots, but I also really like 1-4 optics. A friend has a nice 1-4 or something similar, and it's amazingly simple and fun to use. I definitely agree that a red dot limits the usefulness of it, but it also depends on what you wanna use it for. If you're not planning on using it for long distance, or have other options, a red dot is fine. Still, since I don't have a ton of options at this point, I'd got with the more versatile sight. My dad was looking for a red dot, but I may end up steering him in the 1-4 direction.

Plus, you can always through backup iron sights on too, if you're concerned with close quarters/short range.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I prefer Red Dots for a combat rifle that'll be used for a range of 0 to 200 yards over bulky scopes that increase weight.

I've yet to find an illuminated scope with a 5 year battery.

Don't get me wrong, for bench shooting or hunting, the scope is the way to go but for combat in CQB environments and moderate distances where a 1/2 moa isn't needed, I prefer the red dot that's compact, light, rugged, and has an insane battery life.

 

[meketrefe]

you have glass that is 10-12oz and very compact and rugged. Battery life is as good as our Sun's life. EMP inmune too.

 

[Prudii]

Oh lordy don't mention EMP.

And I've heard good and bad things about the primary arms red dot. From what I gather it's great for what it costs but it's not as good as a aimpoint.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Oh lordy don't mention EMP.

And I've heard good and bad things about the primary arms red dot. From what I gather it's great for what it costs but it's not as good as a aimpoint.

I've had both the Aimpoint Micro T-1 in 4 MOA and the Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot in 2 MOA.

The Aimpoint has slightly clearer glass while the Primary Arms a faint tint to it.

Other than that, I'm confident it can take the abuse as shown above like an Aimpoint can.

 

[FrankenCub]

Something I haven't seen either, is a video of an Aimpoint or Trijicon getting the living shit beat out of it like they do these PA sights. I sure wouldn't try to trash a $700 sight.
Those videos are why I got the sight I did. The more I looked into the PA sights I found they are made by Holosun. With Holosun there are more models, so I got the 503-G with the ACSS reticle. The Aimpoint or Trijicon may have better water proof rating but any sight I will ever own won't be exposed to submersion. Other comparisons I've seen also said the Holosuns also have a crisper dot.

 

[Podmonkey]

Something I haven't seen either, is a video of an Aimpoint or Trijicon getting the living shit beat out of it like they do these PA sights. I sure wouldn't try to trash a $700 sight.
Those videos are why I got the sight I did. The more I looked into the PA sights I found they are made by Holosun. With Holosun there are more models, so I got the 503-G with the ACSS reticle. The Aimpoint or Trijicon may have better water proof rating but any sight I will ever own won't be exposed to submersion. Other comparisons I've seen also said the Holosuns also have a crisper dot.

There is a video out there of an Aimpoint being hit witk a baseball bat a good distance, several times and not only working but holding zero.

 

[FrankenCub]

There is a video out there of an Aimpoint being hit with a baseball bat a good distance, several times and not only working but holding zero.

Oh yeah, I see that now. Tell me they weren't just a bit scared of actually breaking their $$$ Aimpoint, careful placed half assed blows from the hammer, an almost gentile T-Ball swing of the bat! He was afraid of busting the glass! Didn't say anything about holding zero either, just that it still worked. The PA/Holosun in post 16 was given more abuse.

 

[Podmonkey]

Not the one I was talking about. Might have been one by aimpoint itself. Several full effort belts out a good distance. Blew me away really. Hell I don't need that kind of tougness, just enough to survive falls to the ground, or.. ahem.. maybe a trip or two down the stairs. Not that I've ever dropped a rifle down two flights of stairs. Nope, not me, no sir.

 

[FrankenCub]

Not the one I was talking about. Might have been one by aimpoint itself. Several full effort belts out a good distance. Blew me away really. Hell I don't need that kind of tougness, just enough to survive falls to the ground, or.. ahem.. maybe a trip or two down the stairs. Not that I've ever dropped a rifle down two flights of stairs. Nope, not me, no sir.

Could be another video, the one I posted is all I found. From all the test I've seen so far about the Holosuns though, to make it worth spending the extra $$$ on an Aimpoint or Trijicon there would have to be one hell of a difference in them IMO. The big question on YT seems to be would you trust your life with them? Hell yeah I would!

 

[Podmonkey]

It's not just about toughness though. There's clarity, tint, battery life, bleeding of the dot at high brightness levels. Don't get me wrong, I have no dog in this race. Don't have a red dot, nor do I think I'm going that way for my rifle. For me though, in terms of what goes on my rifle, since it is my defensive/ SHTF gun I would want to put the best stuff I could on it regardless of price. If that were a Primary Arms RDS than so be it. If it were an Aimpoint then I would find a way to do that as well.

 

[FrankenCub]

It's not just about toughness though. There's clarity, tint, battery life, bleeding of the dot at high brightness levels. Don't get me wrong, I have no dog in this race. Don't have a red dot, nor do I think I'm going that way for my rifle. For me though, in terms of what goes on my rifle, since it is my defensive/ SHTF gun I would want to put the best stuff I could on it regardless of price. If that were a Primary Arms RDS than so be it. If it were an Aimpoint then I would find a way to do that as well.

Well I'm just cheap lol, to a point. Watch the reviews of the PA or Holosun sights, some in comparison to Aimpoints. Much of the reason I'm going that way is because the clarity of the glass is on par with those $700+ sights, and the dot/reticle being much crisper and not getting the bleed over. I think there is a slight tint to some of them but no different than some of the other big money sights. And battery life on those is also on par with the big money. I haven't had very good luck with conventional scopes on my rifles because they end up getting bang around or knocked over and have ruined quite a few of them. Of course I've never been able to afford a $500+ scope either, and frankly would be too worried about the cross hairs getting busted from previous experience. I don't do irons very often because of my eyes. The needing reading glasses part is some but I'm also color blind so I need really good contrast for sights to stick out. So red dot it is for me. I'll always keep a conventional scope on my Axis and Encore handgun but with those I'm in no hurry to acquire my target and squeeze off a round.