.357 mag "power" from a glock 19???????

[Edwardteach72]

Bored on break, started googling .460 Rowland (mostly because I thought how fun would it be to have a .460 Rowland Roland Special) and saw on their website they have .960 Rowland conversions for glock 19s.

Shoots the .960 Rowland using standard magazines and everything. Just new barrel, but can also shoot standard 9mm

From their website...
"deliver a 115gr bullet downrange at 1600 ft/sec, and a 147gr bullet at over 1400 ft/second"

Oh and a 15 round glock 19 mag holds 15 rounds of 960 Rowland

 

[Airborneguy]

.960 would normally mean a nearly 1" around projectile. Why not here?

 

[Edwardteach72]

.960 would normally mean a nearly 1" around projectile. Why not here?

No idea but that's what they call the 9mm version

 

[Marine Cpl]

If you look at the velocities from a normal sized barrel and not a 6 inch like they are testing from, +P+ from Underwood is slightly slower and you don't have to buy a new barrel.

 

[Podmonkey]

It was my understanding that the .460 Rowland was meant to duplicate .44 mag energy levels. .357 mag is already duplicated, in its 125gr form, by the 357 SIG. And besides I thought the .460 Rowland was defunct?

 

[Edwardteach72]

It was my understanding that the .460 Rowland was meant to duplicate .44 mag energy levels. .357 mag is already duplicated, in its 125gr form, by the 357 SIG. And besides I thought the .460 Rowland was defunct?

So the .460 Rowland i guess is meant to duplicate the .44 mag energy levels out of a .45acp gun (ie glock 21, Glock 30, 1911s) and also uses standard mags and keeps capacity the same... (note, also still able to shoot .45acp through the same barrel and slide and everything, has better reliability with their compensator set up VS. the ported barrels)

they also designed the ".960 Rowland" to be used in the Glcok 19 to duplicate the .357 mag and like the .460 set up can also shoot the original guns ammo, so Glock 19 can still shoot 9mm through the set up, alonge with that you can run glock 19 mags (not that it matters for New York) and the .960 Rowland will fit 15 rounds in a mag

again this is more of a novelty item as i am sure since it hasnt taken off now it wont take off at all, ammo is pretty pricey even compared to .357sig (which i really like that round but to expensive, hard to find, and more recoil for not much gained)

 

[Podmonkey]

Have you shot a 357 SIG? I find it to be softer in recoil than the .40 S&W or .45 ACP. In fact I think it may be the best overall defensive caliber in general were cost(minor) and availability(less minor) not issues.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Have you shot a 357 SIG? I find it to be softer in recoil than the .40 S&W or .45 ACP. In fact I think it may be the best overall defensive caliber in general were cost(minor) and availability(less minor) not issues.

well i personally think .40sw is stupid and can't wait for it to die off, or atleast ended up like how .357sig has and .357sig was i guess like the .40sw. as for .45acp meh works as a fun range round but ill stick with 9mm for all the main reasons, cheap, works just as good as the others, more ammo (yes i know i live in NY but fuck that) faster easier follow up shots

 

[Podmonkey]

This gentleman has changed my opinion of the .40 S&W. It would seem that the .40's drawbacks are at least offset by its advantages while the 357 SIG confers the same adavtages while mitagating one of the drawbacks. I will want a .40 at some point I think. One that offers the ability to convert to 357 SIG.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Have you shot a 357 SIG? I find it to be softer in recoil than the .40 S&W or .45 ACP. In fact I think it may be the best overall defensive caliber in general were cost(minor) and availability(less minor) not issues.

That's the problem. If price, availability, and compatibility weren't a concern, that would be my one handgun caliber. It never took off though.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This gentleman has changed my opinion of the .40 S&W. It would seem that the .40's drawbacks are at least offset by its advantages while the 357 SIG confers the same adavtages while mitagating one of the drawbacks. I will want a .40 at some point I think. One that offers the ability to convert to 357 SIG.

I can't remember off hand but I saw his videos and rolled my eyes at some of the things he said or how he conducted his tests. If I remember correctly in one test, he put a 115 gr vs the heaviest for caliber .40. The results would have been much different if apples to apples were compared instead of apples to oranges.

 

[Podmonkey]

That's the problem. If price, availability, and compatibility weren't a concern, that would be my one handgun caliber. It never took off though.

When you consider the historically extreme resistance to new calibers the fact that the 357 SIG is still available, fairly widely in fact, and adopted by as many agencies as it has been, the 357 SIG has in fact "taken off".

 

[Edwardteach72]

This gentleman has changed my opinion of the .40 S&W. It would seem that the .40's drawbacks are at least offset by its advantages while the 357 SIG confers the same adavtages while mitagating one of the drawbacks. I will want a .40 at some point I think. One that offers the ability to convert to 357 SIG.

just about all .40sw handguns could be converted to .357sig. Glock 22,23,27 for instance. others not really sure as the .40sw offerings are getting less and less and .357sig are even less than that.

to be honest i almost wish i still had my first handgun (glock 23, yes i was young and dumb and didnt know any better to get a g19) only because then id do both the 9mm conversion and the .357sig conversion but in the end i wouldnt shoot the .357sig all that much becuase well cost to much and 9mm again works just fine with the right loads

 

[Podmonkey]

I can't remember off hand but I saw his videos and rolled my eyes at some of the things he said or how he conducted his tests. If I remember correctly in one test, he put a 115 gr vs the heaviest for caliber .40. The results would have been much different if apples to apples were compared instead of apples to oranges.

He used a selection of rounds, including the well regarded 135gr Hornady Critical Defense. He makes an effort to match loads but ammo availability does not always cooperate.
I like these videos, he puts out a lot of data, very concisely and enjoins his veiwers to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Edwardteach72]

taken off? i am talking about the "civilian" market. no new guns are even really being offered in .357 sig. and less and less are being offered in .45acp other than 1911 styles, oh wait Springfield just got back from Croatia who is something like 15 years behind everyone and came out with their sub compact single stack in .45acp, so yes a few are still coming out with .45acp (the shield for one) but i have yet to see any real offerings for .357sig. hell you can get a shield in 9mm .40sw and .45acp no word on .357sig, hell you dont even see many Sig guns in .357sig shit they should have offered the P320 in .357sig for the military trials and could have made a killing,

the P320 came in way way under the cost of that shit pile Glock, they could have even bumped up their price by splitting the difference in half and snagged up an ammo contract as well... but again .357sig is dieing out, and the .40 outside of gamer guns is probably not far behind it.. but on a good note 10mm is making a come back

 

[Podmonkey]

taken off? i am talking about the "civilian" market. no new guns are even really being offered in .357 sig. and less and less are being offered in .45acp other than 1911 styles, oh wait Springfield just got back from Croatia who is something like 15 years behind everyone and came out with their sub compact single stack in .45acp, so yes a few are still coming out with .45acp (the shield for one) but i have yet to see any real offerings for .357sig. hell you can get a shield in 9mm .40sw and .45acp no word on .357sig, hell you dont even see many Sig guns in .357sig shit they should have offered the P320 in .357sig for the military trials and could have made a killing,

the P320 came in way way under the cost of that shit pile Glock, they could have even bumped up their price by splitting the difference in half and snagged up an ammo contract as well... but again .357sig is dieing out, and the .40 outside of gamer guns is probably not far behind it.. but on a good note 10mm is making a come back

.40 isn't going to die out. Its popularity will wax and wane, its simply in the waning phase right now.

 

[Marine Cpl]

He used a selection of rounds, including the well regarded 135gr Hornady Critical Defense. He makes an effort to match loads but ammo availability does not always cooperate.
I like these videos, he puts out a lot of data, very concisely and enjoins his veiwers to draw their own conclusions.

Plus in that cinder block video, he shot the 9mm in different places and the .40 in the same place. If you are going to put up videos and don't have the similar ammo to compare it, wait until you do. I'm also tired of seeing his Carhartt jacket. Oh. And oranges don't mimic a body.

 

[Edwardteach72]

again like i said it will stay around because of gamer guns and major power factor and the fact that it works great with compensators on race guns

with that being said, i think with the rise in compensated carry guns .357sig would be awesome A.F. with say a Glock 32 add a carry comp to that and would be golden, would eliminate the one major issue (shooting issue that is) of the .357sig and tame the recoil probably feel like shooting nice 9mm rounds

 

[Podmonkey]

Plus in that cinder block video, he shot the 9mm in different places and the .40 in the same place. If you are going to put up videos and don't have the similar ammo to compare it, wait until you do. I'm also tired of seeing his Carhartt jacket. Oh. And oranges don't mimic a body.

You are just being salty.
Objectively there is value in these videos. Don't take the "meat targets" as a direct analog of real world performance, just like we don't with ballistics gel, instead simply consider the comparative performance of the featured rounds. I pay particular attention to the damage caused to the bones of the pork ribs. And he takes multiple shots at each meat target with each caliber in hopes of avergaing out the randomness of differences in target composition.
You have a terrible habit of over focusing on the minutia of things my friend.

 

[Podmonkey]

again like i said it will stay around because of gamer guns and major power factor and the fact that it works great with compensators on race guns

with that being said, i think with the rise in compensated carry guns .357sig would be awesome A.F. with say a Glock 32 add a carry comp to that and would be golden, would eliminate the one major issue (shooting issue that is) of the .357sig and tame the recoil probably feel like shooting nice 9mm rounds

The .40 will stick around because there are more than enough agencies and private gun owners that will prefer it over the 9mm.

 

[Edwardteach72]

im not saying go away such as say .32colt ammo, but more or less say like 9mm tokarev

 

[Podmonkey]

im not saying go away such as say .32colt ammo, but more or less say like 9mm tokarev

9mm Tokarev? Do you mean 7.62x25 Tokarev or 9mm Makarov?

 

[Edwardteach72]

both lmao i meant makarove sorry i was looking up tokarev guns for completely different shit

 

[Podmonkey]

I contend the .40 will always remain one of tbe top calibers in popularity.

 

[Edwardteach72]

top yes there is almost none to contend with...

9mm
.40sw and .45acp
.38 and .357
sadly .380 is still going
10mm which should hopefully jump over .380 one day

but yes it will still be around but that doesnt mean it wont be a "novelty"

 

[Podmonkey]

both lmao i meant makarove sorry i was looking up tokarev guns for completely different shit

9mm Mak is still pretty available, unlike .30 Tokarev. People love those little Makarov pistols. I don't, trigger is terrible, I'd rather have the Walther PP it was copied from.

 

[Podmonkey]

top yes there is almost none to contend with...

9mm
.40sw and .45acp
.38 and .357
sadly .380 is still going
10mm which should hopefully jump over .380 one day

but yes it will still be around but that doesnt mean it wont be a "novelty"

I believe tbe .40 is second only to the 9mm. I think it will stay that way. I see the .45 as the formerly massively popular cartridge that is begining to trail off.

 

[Edwardteach72]

9mm Mak is still pretty available, unlike .30 Tokarev. People love those little Makarov pistols. I don't, trigger is terrible, I'd rather have the Walther PP it was copied from.

and i would love to see some company come up with a modern design around the 9mm makarov hell and even the tok

 

[Edwardteach72]

I believe tbe .40 is second only to the 9mm. I think it will stay that way. I see the .45 as the formerly massively popular cartridge that is begining to trail off.

i see the .45acp pretty much meh in the next 10 years again not many offerings are coming out in the civilian market, hell even PCC are mostly done in 9mm or 40

 

[Podmonkey]

and i would love to see some company come up with a modern design around the 9mm makarov hell and even the tok

It'll never happen. Both gun and cartridge popularity are driven by surplus availability.