35AR

[meketrefe]

Well what about the .458 Magnum then?

Very powerful round can take down a whale but when you put it next to a 375 or 35 with 300 grain and same amount of powder or less then you get less in the end. A 375 and 35 are as deadly and will shoot as flat as a 300 magnum with less recoil than the 458.

 

[Podmonkey]

In the AR15 anthying larger than 7mm does not make much sense but then again with the 35 calober and faster powders something magical happens. 308, 310, 338 are not great sources given the small portfolio of the ar15.
If ine puts all the possible casings and bullets and output side by side one quickly realizes that one can achieve more with smaller bores or then the 35. Larger bores like 45 and 50 seem great in the short distance but because of their ballistics they drop quickly. Still ok for those seeking that type of deal.

Oh, you are talking about AR15 specific cartridges. What is the heaviest .35 bullet that would fit in the AR15 action? I'm thinking for suppressed use. The terminal ballistics of subsonic 220gr 300blk are quite underwhelming.

 

[BuellSix8]

I still have my two 35Gunner barrels... a pistol and rifle. This winter I plan on working on loads. Terry and I def spent some money between each other trading, buying and selling.

 

[meketrefe]

Oh, you are talking about AR15 specific cartridges. What is the heaviest .35 bullet that would fit in the AR15 action? I'm thinking for suppressed use. The terminal ballistics of subsonic 220gr 300blk are quite underwhelming.

Ar15 yes but also in short actions and even long actions with popular magnums. There you also have the mighty 338 lapua but in terms of hunting one has a huge selection in 35 and 375 for anything walking on this planet.
For the AR15 and 35 caliber one vould go up to 250gr with supersonic. That is the max for the 35 gunner and then 320gr for subsonic.
The 30 caliber in the AR makes little sense whether is supersonix or subsonic.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ar15 yes but also in short actions and even long actions with popular magnums. There you also have the mighty 338 lapua but in terms of hunting one has a huge selection in 35 and 375 for anything walking on this planet.
For the AR15 and 35 caliber one vould go up to 250gr with supersonic. That is the max for the 35 gunner and then 320gr for subsonic.
The 30 caliber in the AR makes little sense whether is supersonix or subsonic.

The .35 is better though? I gotta ask, for subsonic why not .458? You have the same fuel pistol/rifle bullet access.

Also, as to the .30 not making sense in an AR, I assume you mean the AR15. For .30 you have the AR10 size.

 

[meketrefe]

The .35 is better though? I gotta ask, for subsonic why not .458? You have the same fuel pistol/rifle bullet access.

Also, as to the .30 not making sense in an AR, I assume you mean the AR15. For .30 you have the AR10 size.

.458 or even 50 caliber for subsonic is great since could could arrange for a 350-400gr slugs.
But the thing is, as range extens lets say out to 100 yards those slow down a lot faster than lets say a 310gr 35 caliber bullet
that has a much better ballistics coeficient and it doesn't have to be a match bullet, it can be a cast too.

Yes in general I was refering to the AR15 where anything above 7mm and below 35 caliber is not a good idea.
I mean in terms of speed, power and ballistics performance because if you look at the bullet assortments across the board
you can find better choices in any of those calibers below or above 308, 311, 338 and such.

In terms of the AR10 the venerable 308 is a very good round but the same 308 if it was 7mm today it could do all the same
things as the 308 and a few more. I guess the only area where the 308 would get ahead the 7mm is with 180gr premium bullets
for big game hunting including moose and even the largest bears should that caliber be allowed in once area like local residents in AK.

But by the same token the 7mm-08 w/o getting more fancy will out perform its own parent (the 308) in average hunting, long range
and one has 168gr - 175gr that would be very good for moose and large elk. Even more power on target than the 308.
The 7mm can do all the things the 6mm, 6.5mm and 308 can do in a short action and a lot more.

These two round I use in one of my long range hunting rifle leave the 308, 260/ 6.5 Creed / lapua in the dust.
The can open heavy steel gates at 1100 yards where all the others might fail and by the same token can pop
a large Elk with authority should that be needed although for this I will always suggest a magnum.

The 168gr berger gives a transonic range of 1500-1600 yards shooting very flat and puts some substantial
momentum on the target.

No internet yards but real ones.

Rounds I shoot from the Short action bolt rifles with AICS magazines.

For the AR10 the 168gr continues to be an amazing round although one looses a couple of grains of powder and
100fps like with any gas gun but continues to be a very accurate and powerful long range round if needed.


7mm-08 behind the 308 in a SR25/DPMS magazine.
But the 162gr ELD is more accurate and I would say perfect for the AR10.

 

[meketrefe]

The subsonic is really tricky because it has so limited use to be effective unlike one has a massive amount of grain.

For tactical use: It fails to penetrate hard barriers and most armor.

For hunting: It doesn't have the power and speed to inflict CNS disruption and that is why you want a shotgun because more frontal area
can displace more fluid at slower speeds. But this is an area fast and heavy supersonic calibers will always win to kill with authority.

Wounding: Because of the minimized shock one has to rely exclusively in wounding potential. For this one cannot use match bullets
and has to go for specialty bullets many times expensive in calibers 338 and below and then is the same dilemma you presented,
why not go with a 45 or a 50 caliber hollow point pistol bullet in the first place specially if I am going to shoot at short distances
that would be the most likely scenario.

That is why I think the 35 is great because whether it is a cheap fmj 9mm for practice, a 357 flat point with 170gr designed
for the 357 magnum or maximum, a 180gr soft point or 200gr ftx or a premium 220gr bonded you have a huge range of options
and then for subsonic one could go with a 320gr cast hollow point that will put more punch at very reasonble cost.

In any case if one is serious about subsonic the best might be a dedicated subsonic system and then a supressor and send
even more grain. What about a 500gr cast from an AR15? The WWSM case can do it with 50 caliber projectiles.

I love my whisper for subsonic but it is not for anything serious. If one wants to get serious with subsonic the best would be
to contact Marty (JD jones) and get a 500 phantom. But then the 1000gr bullets are not in the menu unless one migrates
to the AR10 receiver.




My buddy Jeff made this one but I don't know. ...with the 35 gunner I am served for anything and it is so much
easier in complexity and the pocket to make and feed/maintain.

 

[Podmonkey]

The only thing I suggest is that in carbine sized guns the 308 seems to suffer less than other cartridges. Also in semi automatic fire the 308 seems about the most powerful cartridge that one can still quickly hammer away with.

For me it's all a moot topic though. I don't hand load and have no desire to. Therfore cost per round is a paramount concern and this limits me to bulk cartridges, 9x19, 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51. Once upon a time guys like me had a great thing in the 5.45x39. In the heyday of 7n6 imports only .22lr was cheaper!

But the 35 gunner is compelling. I'd like to see it become a factory cartridge. But then it would invariably be a $1 a shot proposition. I cannot sustain an expenditure that high. I buy and shoot ammo by the case.

 

[meketrefe]

The 35 gunner with a 180gr and 200gr gets more performance from a 16" barrel than the 308 from the same barrel size. This from an AR15/compact vs. AR10 / SA platform.
That is not the only reason I designed it but you can shoot very inexpensive 9mm and 357 fmj bullets for practice and then premium 200gr-225gr bulltes
for big game that are faster proven killers than the 30 caliber bullets.
35 and 375 bores are very effective killers through generations. that is no secret.

 

[meketrefe]

Once you get to the 35 and 375 bores one thing that they are really good at is energy transfer. In that sense they are a lot more forgiving
than the 308 and smaller calibers. From a terminal ballistics standpoint they are very acceptable and versitale. They balance very well the
terminal performance with the external performance (ballistics) and that is why.

Cost wise they can be very inexpensive for practice or hunting varmints, small game or even whitetail.

This is just a small sample of a bullet department that goes from the smallest pistol bullets to african game type of bullets.

 

[meketrefe]

It was nice to talk about rounds and firearms while it lasted.

 

[Robin]

I'd love to have one Mek!
Robin

 

[Airborneguy]

It was nice to talk about rounds and firearms while it lasted.

I'm still mildly interested in getting one! I wish I didn't have to back out last time. It just took too long and life ate up my funds. That was right around my divorce.

 

[kev74]

I'd love to have one Mek!
Robin

I'm still mildly interested in getting one!

#me too!

 

[ManrisFrack]

It was nice to talk about rounds and firearms while it lasted.

Well quit talkin and start makin chips!

 

[togmaster]

#me too!

I always read that as pound me too.

 

[Calculon]

Would be interested in one also but I'm not a reloader (yet).

 

[repete]

I'd love to have one Mek!
Robin

I'd love one too! I'm kinda .357 fan and am always looking for something a little different add in the Gunner tribute factor and the 'cool' factor goes up X10 !!

 

[meketrefe]

Thanks guys.
Your interest and support means a lot not just to me. I invested all this time and energy in the design and development but
never felt tired or discouraged because of the support of the Terry, Chris and many others who enjoy hunting and
want to harvest the animals quickly and as humane as possible while using very compact carbines or pistol/pdw type of deal.
This is ideal for a tree stand too.

This load below is the one I developed and reloaded with Terry(Gunner) that we tested together and the one we were planning to use this season.
It is very sad and hard to talk about this but at the same time I am sure Terry's wish would be that we carry on with our love for the outdoors and shooting sports.

This one is even a bit too much energy for a white tail but no doubt will anchor anything walking the northern woods right on the spot.
Recoil is pretty friendly. you will feel it but less than the 458 socom or beowolf (more like a friendly push) yet in a few yards gets ahead of
those two at basically everything but most importantly in flatter trajectory, less time to target, and more speed and energy on the target.

Perhaps we should order a few more barrels. If we can get 10 or more folks interested we can create more traction and a larger following
plus the more we order the lower the cost gets. As you know big companies get cost down by making things in huge quantities that is why
it is so hard to make super cheap barrels with specialty calibers.

The caliber is all we hoped for a much more. Folks who love the 35 remington, the 357 magnum, 357 maximum, 358 Winchester, and
so many others, they should love this one for the AR or even an AKM or SKS type or even a savage or ruger bolt action.
The reason is the versatility it gives across a wide range of platforms and will work with popular actions and magazines.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’m in. Likely for a pistol-sized barrel as it seems this caliber shines in that regard for hunting.

I want to suggest that if you do this, you set it up as a barrel, bolt, reloading dies package.

 

[meketrefe]

I’m in. Likely for a pistol-sized barrel as it seems this caliber shines in that regard for hunting.

I want to suggest that if you do this, you set it up as a barrel, bolt, reloading dies package.

I would not actually be selling anything but helping the group order and then make sure help folks put the package together.
And yes, they have to go with bolt and dies. The dies we can go custom or have them cut from lee dies that
are a lot cheaper and work just fine. The bolts are superbolts from ARP so they will not break. These or young
manufacturing are the only ones I use. A bit more money but they last because they are beefed up.
I don't want any garbage from any PSA, model1 or other AR kits cheapo deals. It is not worth the headaches.
The bolt extractors are armalite that are the best as demonstrated by the 7.62x39 ars. LWRC uses these too.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I'd be in too. Carbine length barrel for me - 16 or 18".

 

[1075tech]

Has anyone done testing to see what kind of chamber pressures you're generating?

With what loads?

 

[Podmonkey]

I am curious, given that the 35 Remington was the most popular caliber of those developed for the Model 8 rifle, and the fact that ensures to this day unlike its siblings why do we think a .35 AR 15 cartridge hasn't been adopted by a manufacturer yet? Whe have near every other caliber out there. Is it just a mater of time?

 

[Podmonkey]

I think there is a lot of potential for subsonic use in then35 gunner if it can really use 9mm pistol bullets.

 

[meketrefe]

I am curious, given that the 35 Remington was the most popular caliber of those developed for the Model 8 rifle, and the fact that ensures to this day unlike its siblings why do we think a .35 AR 15 cartridge hasn't been adopted by a manufacturer yet? Whe have near every other caliber out there. Is it just a mater of time?

Why the 35 Winchester or 35 whelen are not more popular? They are very affordable alternative to magnum cartriges when it comes
to killing power yet at a fraction of the cost and with less blast and concusion in most cases.
Why they are not more popular? Many true hunters ask themselves this type of questions.
The reason is: Marketing. Some calibers establish themselves by their own merits or with time but Marketing is a very powerful thing.
Marketing is so powerful that can even make people buy So-so firearms and rather anemic and questionable cartridges.
The blackout is one of those that came to be by the internet and pure Marketing power. Why was not a 6x45 or a 7mmx42 ?Because nobody invested on them, All of them, even including the modern 223 are ballistically superior.

Bottom line, most folks do not understand ballistics. They just trust the Marketing mambo jambo that is fed to them.

 

[meketrefe]

I think there is a lot of potential for subsonic use in then35 gunner if it can really use 9mm pistol bullets.

Yes but like any subsonic it shoudl be a dedicated gas system. ...or a bolt gun.
And one also has great 310-320 gr cast bullets and casting molds.
Even jackets can be fabricated from other calibers and small shotshells can be improvised with these 35 calibers.