9mm vs 45acp here we go

[Prudii]

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

^^^
Edited for realistic depiction.

 

[Snappo]

If you want to try a pocket pistol in 380 that works well and is fun to shoot, try either the Glock 42 or a Sig P238. If you like a 1911-style pistol, the P238 will be right in your wheelhouse.

I'm not sure how rare they are, but like 25 years ago I had a Llama that was a miniature 1911 and was in 380 or 32 auto - I forget which. That was great for your pocket. My best friend had something called a Waffenfabrik (sp?) and that was 32 auto. I wonder if those can be had for dirt cheap on some C&R website?

 

[Prudii]

Hasn't this argument kinda run its course, assuming we are all law-abiding citizens we have to abide by the magazine size limits. Most modern .45s hold at least 10 rounds, so at this point for residents of NY isn't the question would you rather have 10 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .45?

 

[RandallOfLegend]

Hasn't this argument kinda run its course, assuming we are all law-abiding citizens we have to abide by the magazine size limits. Most modern .45s hold at least 10 rounds, so at this point for residents of NY isn't the question would you rather have 10 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .45?

10 rounds of 40

 

[Marine Cpl]

Hasn't this argument kinda run its course, assuming we are all law-abiding citizens we have to abide by the magazine size limits. Most modern .45s hold at least 10 rounds, so at this point for residents of NY isn't the question would you rather have 10 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .45?

No. I would rather have ten rounds of a caliber that goes 300 to 400 fps faster.

Don't make me post the frying pan video or the newly found telephone book video.

 

[rsmitty]

Well full disclosure. I have 2 9mm pistols and 0 45's.
Willjr please post phone book vid.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well full disclosure. I have 2 9mm pistols and 0 45's.
Willjr please post phone book vid.

No. Then people get mad at me and all butt hurt because their favorite caliber fell short.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'll d o a full report later, when I'm not so dog ass tired, but while the Shield was controllable I did not find it especially enjoyable to shoot. Not compared to the PPQ anyways.

 

[Phazer]

I'm not sure how rare they are, but like 25 years ago I had a Llama that was a miniature 1911 and was in 380 or 32 auto - I forget which. That was great for your pocket.

Like the older Llama you mentioned, Browning now sells the Black Label 1911-380 pistols. We've got one. My wife loves 1911 controls and triggers (which is why she likes her P238 and P938, though they're not straight-pull 1911 triggers). She finds the 1911-380 to be her real favorite. It is a real 1911 that is about 85% scale of my full-size 45ACP model. It's just a bit to long for her to easily conceal.

A 1911 in 380acp just makes sense since both were inventions of John Browning.

 

[Greywolf224]

Fuck all those statistics charts ballistic jell studies frying pan size fucking holes Hollow point solid points full metal jacket +P or -P rounds.. I'm carrying my .40.
And the only way you wont be dead is if I miss. Than pity on me.

I'll use damn cartridges that my aunt Phelomina made 50 years ago if I have to. But hell if Im gonna pay double or triple for some bullshit that will give me no more of a chance to survive and is only as good as I can shoot.

 

[meketrefe]

Guys
one of the best forensic analysis about ballistics lethality is in Cornel's medical library about firearms trauma.
You have endless of well documented cases and stats all from real life trauma forensics.
There is no evidence that one popular caliber is more lethal than another striking vitals.
Bullets of similar terminal construction and characteristics produce similar wounding regardless of the caliber.
What is important is to put good placement. If a specific caliber helps you with that then great.
I read a lot into this years ago when I used to believe than some calibers might have an edge but I lost the links.
I am sure you can find it or ask Cornell's library directly.

So go with proven defense ammo and conventional wisdom from professionals.

Or is this thread going for the horse beating award of the year?

Where is the horse beating moji when you need it? lol ... anyway...

 

[Nevar]

Just a comment, if I may.
.45acp ? so why do all the others try to compare next to it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Just a comment, if I may.
.45acp ? so why do all the others try to compare next to it.

How so? Modern calibers are trying to gain more velocity not lose velocity.

I'll go ahead and say that the .45 Acp is the pistol version of the .300 Blackout. It doesn't have the case capacity to push the larger bullet with enough speed.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Look everyone! Will made a video:



His real name is Larry and he even says a phone book test is about meaningless.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Look everyone! Will made a video:



His real name is Larry and he even says a phone book test is about meaningless.

I was waiting for you to come out. A meaningless test but nevertheless, a failure in penetrating that specific barrier.

 

[ECU Pirates]

I was waiting for to to come out. A meaningless test but nevertheless, a failure.

You are older than I thought.

 

[1911guy]

The subject is so old and over done that I refuse to comment

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are older than I thought.

And fatter.

 

[meketrefe]

22LR is a very lethal round because some people can group really well with it.
Any head or neck shots are brutal. We use it to dispatch large animals including a sick horse by a shot to the head though a thick skull.
The little round does a number in the head resulting in instant collapse.
People have been shot in the head with larger calibers and survived.
Some people still think it is a "toy" round.

 

[meketrefe]

Just a comment, if I may.
.45acp ? so why do all the others try to compare next to it.

I think it is because it is the most popular and affordable of the "large" calibers.
It happens with any caliber that is (or was) a service caliber.
Old service calibers and new service calibers are always compared.

223/5.56 vs. 5.45x39
223/5.56 vs. 7.62x39
30 carbine vs. whisper
5.56 vs. whisper
9mm Luger vs. 9mm Makarov
9mm Luger vs. 45
40 cal vs. 9mm luger
357SIG vs. 9x25 Tokarev
30-06 vs. 308W (7.62x51)
etc...

The perception is always that more mass, wider bullets is better yet more times than not, less ends up being more.
Our 308 winchester would have been a much capable round in 7mm (7mm/08) but we had to go with the "30 cal" fashion
at the time. Our 5.56 could have been the perfect 6mm but the Army requirements for weight at the time had more
influence to determine the "grain" than actual power factor and reach.

In reality ballistics is all a world of trade-offs like most sciences based on physics.

the ideal round would be a 300 magnum with the size, weight and recoil of the 22LR.

But we know things do not work like that.

 

[Nevar]

.45acp and the .357 MAG. no matter what they say still are the king and queen.
If not why do all the others try to compare to them.

 

[Marine Cpl]

.45acp and the .357 MAG. no matter what they say still are the king and queen.
If not why do all the others try to compare to them.

I'll give you the. 357 Magnum. .357 Sig was built to emulate it. But I'd yet to see a new round built to go at 750 to 850 fps.

 

[ECU Pirates]

I'll give you the. 357 Magnum. .357 Sig was built to emulate it. But I'd yet to see a new round built to go at 750 to 850 fps.

Since when does new mean better?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Since when does new mean better?

It does in hollow points

 

[meketrefe]

Lets explain this once again for the 9,999 time...

The 357SIG does the same as the 357MAG out of a small frame auto-loading pistol.
It was designed with that purpose in mind. It is compared to show that a smaller cartridge can produce the same
performance as the larger and venerable 357 magnum with the same bullets from small barrels.
So there is little point in buying a Dessert Eagle pistol when one can have all the benefits of a lighter pistol and rimless
cartridge that can hold more rounds therefore more firepower than the 357 magnum in the first place.
An that is why the US secret service adopted the 357SIG, same as many special units and police around the world.
Another one adopted by the secret service is the 5.7FN because, like with the 357 SIG can go through glass and hard
barrier better than heavier slower calibers and w/o adding a lot of weight or reducing load. the 357 mag can do that
and much more but it is not feasible in modern auto-loading firearms. Still a great revolver and lever action round.

These are facts, not simple opinions about my personal preferences.

And the US secret service and other elite professionals know more about ballistics (specially the real life applicability
of these) than all the internet forums combined.

Ask yourself, why someone very lethal with firearms will choose those over anything else? and trust me they can
have whatever they want. No limits there.

 

[ECU Pirates]

It does in hollow points

This is old. I don't know of many with a better reputation.
Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammo 357 Mag 125 Grain Jacketed

 

[meketrefe]

Ok for the horse beatings sake and since the forum is new...

there we go again...

357 magnum

Technical Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps
Muzzle Energy: 584 ft. lbs.

Of course there is hotter 357mag too. absurd in a small revolver though.



357SIG

Mid size 4" barrel

Muzzle Velocity: 1511 fps
Muzzle Energy: 634 ft. lbs.

This guy is one of the few serious people in youtube.
Here full power 357SIG gold dot underwood.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This is old. I don't know of many with a better reputation.
Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammo 357 Mag 125 Grain Jacketed

There are exceptions. The .357 Magnum has a lot of case to work with that isn't used so at that time it was easy to build a good load unlike calibers with smaller cases.

This is why the .45 will never penetrate the frying pan. Not enough room for more powder.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Lets explain this once again for the 9,999 time...

The 357SIG does the same as the 357MAG out of a small frame auto-loading pistol.
It was designed with that purpose in mind. It is compared to show that a smaller cartridge can produce the same
performance as the larger and venerable 357 magnum with the same bullets from small barrels.
So there is little point in buying a Dessert Eagle pistol when one can have all the benefits of a lighter pistol and rimless
cartridge that can hold more rounds therefore more firepower than the 357 magnum in the first place.
An that is why the US secret service adopted the 357SIG, same as many special units and police around the world.
Another one adopted by the secret service is the 5.7FN because, like with the 357 SIG can go through glass and hard
barrier better than heavier slower calibers and w/o adding a lot of weight or reducing load. the 357 mag can do that
and much more but it is not feasible in modern auto-loading firearms. Still a great revolver and lever action round.

These are facts, not simple opinions about my personal preferences.

And the US secret service and other elite professionals know more about ballistics (specially the real life applicability
of these) than all the internet forums combined.

Ask yourself, why someone very lethal with firearms will choose those over anything else? and trust me they can
have whatever they want. No limits there.

Your statement on the .357 sig is only partially true. It does not do the same as the mag. It's no where near as versatile. 200 gr hard cast for hunting? Not with the sig. You have sand 9,9999 times the sig should be used in full size pistols (the small frames don't benefit much of the 9mm that I am aware of) I think you were only talking defense/law enforcement use though. The sig has drawbacks. It's loud and snappy from smaller guns. There are also other elite gov. agencies that carry 9mm.