A decent look at some choices for home defense
A look at handgun vs PCC vs Ar-15 pistol for HD
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
GTN
.308 Win
Good video. I’d like to see what all 3 do when it comes penetration
I would have liked to see him cross reference a 5.56 "pistol".
Yeah I was hoping to see more to this in the case of barrier penetration and what not
Yea I kept watching to see if he would also throw in s 5.56 for reference
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A PCC will penetrate more with solid ammo. A 5.56 will pinhole with solid ammo. A hollow point in a PCC will under penetrate. A hollow point in 5.56 may not expand and will pinhole just like a solid round would.
So 12g pump is the way to go
Do you have links to support this?
I want a gun that is compact as possible, with the greatest ballistic performance possible with an ability to effectively reach out to 200 meters.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Nah. Too much recoil and no surgical precision. Can't take a shot if a loved is struggling with the perp.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I've seen a bunch of Youtube gel tests. 9mm hollow points over-expanded and under-penetrated due to the extra velocity the bigger barrel gives it. The HST actually broke apart in one test I saw.
I haven't seen what it does with FMJ other than pass through 2 blocks. I prefer that and use the Xtreme Penetrators. I like barrier penetration.
In 5.56 with too short of a barrel, FMJ'S don't fragment. They usually make it about 20 or so inches into the 2nd block. Some hollow point loads don't expand at all due to the loss of velocity with the short barrel unless you go with a 50 gr for example. Others barely expand and kind of act like FMJ without the fragmentation. It's hit or miss. You have to look around. Gold dots did good though and if I remember correctly, TTSX did good too.
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Hits are the most important thing, followed by penetration. If we are just poking .22 holes then we have to settle for poking a lot of them.
Uzi
.308 Win
For self defense inside a home or building, I'd never pick that broom handle length 9mm rifle. I want to be able to sprint from any location inside of a building for cover and or concealment without the risk of smacking the barrel or stock on the trim of a door or a table or something. For that reason I'd pick the basic pistol. Hell... I run into a table with my shins almost everyday just when I wake up and when I'm tired going to bed. This why something like a very compact AR pistol meets the criteria pretty well. They're not super long, and having that secondary and third contact point will make it almost ideal in controllability to actually get those more brutal rifle rounds on target in a PDW sized system. That brings me to the final point, with the AR configuration, there is also no longer a need to be running pistol calibers in one either.
Nope sorry based on your previous post about PCC and 5.56 being useless, only true option is a good scatter gun
***edit*** the sound of the gun being racked will just scare off any intruder 110% of the time.
Oh and let's not forget the shotgun is so perfect the nazis wanted them banned from war because perfect
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What you say has lots of merit. I have both a handgun and a PCC near me. The PCC is under the bed. The handgun is on the nightstand.
I would grab one or the other depending on the situation. I'm definitely more accurate with the PCC than the handgun so I would probably grab that first. If it happens too fast, then it would be a pistol.
Now as far as 5.56 goes, there are definitely some negatives. The intense noise, flash, and concussion is something to consider. Especially in smaller rooms near walls.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. I actually use the PCC. It's useful to me. I want deep penetration. I want it to go through walls and corners and furniture. You know. Places where people like to use cover.
That's why I use the Xtreme Penetrators.
Nope you already said over penetration, so looks like shotgun it is
Sorry works boring tonight
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Are you sure? Cuz I'm not understanding you. I want the deep penetration so it works for me.
Have you been drinking?
No I am at work and bored
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Let's make fun of Podmonkey then. He's more fun to fuck with them me.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Just poke them into vitals. You don't need a lot of them. And if it did expand, you still need to poke them into vitals. A nice expanded hollow point from a 5.56 will not immediately kill you if it hits you in the chest away from vitals.
Shotgun is too big, too little ammo onboard and to slow to reload. For my need. For HD its fine.
But but if you rack the slide the bad guy will shit themselves and run away . that's why the nazis wanted them outlawed
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I had to unlike your last post. I didn't read your last sentence. It's not fine for home defense.
Thanks for this post because I did the same thing.
Thought he was saying no bueno for HD, but he said the opposite
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
How so?...
1. Too much recoil
2. Very low capacity
3. Ammunition is large and cumbersome.
4. It's slower to reload.
5. Usually 40 plus inches long.
6. No precision shooting with buckshot. If an assailant is tussling with a member of your family, you can't fire at him without risking your family member's life.
7. Very easy to screw up the pump sequence under stress. IDPA guys screw it up all the time.
8. Semi autos are even further limited in capacity in this state.
9. Slow follow up shots.
10. Bad for multiple assailants due to the limited capacity, slow reloading, and follow up shots.
I can go on. It isn't the weapon of choice for an entry team, there is a reason for that. Even prior to AR's they weren't even used. MP5's were. Shotguns are just a little more modern than a musket. Rifling was actually an advancement in firearms technology.
But because the myth that it's a good home defense weapon gets spread daily, civilians here in the US think it's the best idea. The military and police from around the world think otherwise for CQB. They would never use a shotgun as a primary for all the reasons above.
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Shotguns are only best for 3 things:
1. Shooting birds.
2. Shooting fake birds.
3. Hunting deer in shotgun only zones.
1. Shooting birds.
2. Shooting fake birds.
3. Hunting deer in shotgun only zones.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Maybe if we push the idea that .410 revolvers loaded with shot are a good idea for home defense when a shotgun is not ideal due to length, the rest of America will catch on.
We could have security guards in banks carrying them. CQB entry teams can storm structures carrying 12 gauge shotguns and .410 revolvers as backups.
Why use something that that makes only one hole?
Imagine the firepower!
We could have security guards in banks carrying them. CQB entry teams can storm structures carrying 12 gauge shotguns and .410 revolvers as backups.
Why use something that that makes only one hole?
Imagine the firepower!