A Tragic Case Of Loss of Life

[Glenn B]

The linked article tells of a tragic case of being unsafe with a firearm by one party goer that led to the death of another party goer.

Cleveland man charged in deadly accidental shooting at dinner party 'extremely sorry,' attorney says

There were several rules of firearms safety that were violated and the article and accompanying video give a clue as to some of them beyond the so called four rules of firearms safety. Indeed there are several more rules than a mere four but they somehow seem to have been all but forgotten by many gun owners since J. Cooper memorialized only four of them.

The thing about not following rules of firearms safety (or possibly not even knowing about them since some believe there are only four of them or at least only four that matter) is that getting a do-over is often impossible because the result of not following the rules was crippling or fatal as in this particular case.

If you are only aware of the four rules and want to see some of the others, some of which are just as important, go to the below links:

NRA Explore | NRA Gun Safety Rules (make sure to scroll down passed the first three)

Ten Commandments of Firearms Safety

Ruger Safety Information

https://support.marlinfirearms.com/...fle/10_The_Ten_Commandments_of_Firearm_Safety

http://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/product-safety-information (Make sure to click on Firearm Safety, Operation & Maintenance)

Amazingly, even some of these large firearms companies have forgotten or otherwise overlooked the importance of including some of the rules - such as not mixing gunpowder with alcohol or better put not handling firearms and or ammunition when drinking alcoholic beverages or taking mind altering drugs and another one such as keeping firearms from unauthorized users.

Be careful with firearms, the one time you screw up may be the last time you see the person in the path of the bullet that you fired or allowed someone else to fire.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Of course the idiot putting the gun in his own mouth avoids any harm and kills someone just showing up to have a good time. Expected from people that call them clips?

 

[Phauxtoe]

I started watching it ...
then i see two Giant Assholes Playing with guns and I have to STOP!

cleansing the gene pool!

 

[Glenn B]

I started watching it ...
then i see two Giant Assholes Playing with guns and I have to STOP!

cleansing the gene pool!

Sorry, I should have mentioned: You can watch it without fear of seeing anything of a graphic nature relative to the actual shooting death. They stop well before the guy is shot. They may change that at a later date but I doubt they would show it.

 

[Glenn B]

Of course the idiot putting the gun in his own mouth avoids any harm and kills someone just showing up to have a good time. Expected from people that call them clips?

Yes that was quite the bit of irony there, not that it would have been any better, in general, for the guy putting it in his mouth to have shot himself but it certainly would have been better for the guy who wound up getting shot. Too bad the gun owner did not just put it away or at least unload it before the party. It happens though, I guess, that sometimes we all forget or neglect to do something we should have done. In this case though, there were just several repeated blatant violations of firearms safety rules and sadly that had tragic and fatal consequences.

 

[camper4lyfe]

It wasn't an accident, it was negligence.

 

[Dr. Evil]

It wasn't an accident, it was negligence.

I find myself saying this a lot on here. Gets real old.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Something happened between the video recording and the shooting. You can see in the video that the gun owner (who ended up shooting someone) drops the magazine and clears the chamber and then gives it back to the idiot putting the gun in his mouth. Someone must have loaded the gun again. It's an unfortunate thing to happen, but it looks like they were a bunch of idiots.

 

[Glenn B]

It wasn't an accident, it was negligence.

What makes you believe that an accident cannot be due to someone having been negligent. The words accident and negligence seem only to be mutually exclusive among the gun owning community and among politicians/bureaucrats trying to nail someone for doing something wrong. Saying a shooting was an accident just means it was done unintentionally, and obviously in this case that does not exclude the fact that the gun owner or whoever it was that shot the victim was negligent - hell he was charged. They obviously are using the word accident in the context of its meaning that the act was not purposeful but instead unintended or accidental.

It seems to me that since the inception of the practice of no fault insurance, many people think that the word accident implies there was no fault; that is not correct except maybe with regard to insurance coverage for medical expenses due to a motor vehicle accident. The truth is, a shooting can be either accidental or purposeful, just like many other things we can do. Just because it was accidental does not automatically mean that the shooter was not at fault and that just like when a shooting is done purposefully the shooter is not always guilty of a crime. A shooter may have been negligent even though he did it unintentionally or accidentally, negligence does not mean though that he did it on purpose. First and foremost an accident is an incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. It can also be something happening without cause but that is a secondary definition. Only the secondary definition rules out negligence, the primary definition does not.

 

[camper4lyfe]

What makes you believe that an accident cannot be due to someone having been negligent. The words accident and negligence seem only to be mutually exclusive among the gun owning community and among politicians/bureaucrats trying to nail someone for doing something wrong. Saying a shooting was an accident just means it was done unintentionally, and obviously in this case that does not exclude the fact that the gun owner or whoever it was that shot the victim was negligent - hell he was charged. They obviously are using the word accident in the context of its meaning that the act was not purposeful but instead unintended or accidental.

It seems to me that since the inception of the practice of no fault insurance, many people think that the word accident implies there was no fault; that is not correct except maybe with regard to insurance coverage for medical expenses due to a motor vehicle accident. The truth is, a shooting can be either accidental or purposeful, just like many other things we can do. Just because it was accidental does not automatically mean that the shooter was not at fault and that just like when a shooting is done purposefully the shooter is not always guilty of a crime. A shooter may have been negligent even though he did it unintentionally or accidentally, negligence does not mean though that he did it on purpose. First and foremost an accident is an incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. It can also be something happening without cause but that is a secondary definition. Only the secondary definition rules out negligence, the primary definition does not.

Accidents are unavoidable. Negligence is avoidable.

A tree falling on your car as you're driving down the road is an accident. There's nothing you could do about it.

Unintentionally shooting someone is negligence. If you never point a gun at someone, you avoid the possibility of shooting someone.

 

[swilliams]

Accidents are unavoidable. Negligence is avoidable.

A tree falling on your car as you're driving down the road is an accident. There's nothing you could do about it.

Unintentionally shooting someone is negligence. If you never point a gun at someone, you avoid the possibility of shooting someone.

It's funny you mention tree falling on your car. When I took my motorcycle class ages ago, the instructor said there's no such thing as a motorcycle accident. Then admitted maybe there was, if a tree fell on you.

 

[camper4lyfe]

It's funny you mention tree falling on your car. When I took my motorcycle class ages ago, the instructor said there's no such thing as a motorcycle accident. Then admitted maybe there was, if a tree fell on you.

Our safety trainings every year reiterate that all "accidents" are avoidable. I call them negligence. If something happens it's either due to poor design, improper installation, poor QC, or poor workmanship. All human factors and all avoidable: negligence.

Natural disasters and natural occurrences are accidents because they are completely out of your control.

 

[GOPerfect]

I need no rules from any organization to tell me not to put a gun in my mouth!

You can preach and preach, you can explain till you are blue in the face the dangers that can come with gun possession, some will never understand and the ultimate prize may come your way.

 

[camper4lyfe]

I need no rules from any organization to tell me not to put a gun in my mouth!

You can preach and preach, you can explain till you are blue in the face the dangers that can come with gun possession, some will never understand and the ultimate prize may come your way.

Unfortunately, more times than not, the idiots aren't the ones getting hurt, it's innocent people around them.

 

[GOPerfect]

I really love how the media always finds these types of stories.

I would be willing to bet that there are many more stories about people killed by a drunk driver.

There is neglectful as well as stupid people around us at all times. Warnings, rules and laws will not stop them; they may slow the idiots down, but that is about it.

It is very difficult to deal with an idiot, they are a breed all to their own.

 

[IrishMick]

Idiots playing with guns. Guns are not toys but tools, dangerous tools in the wrong hands. Breaking practically every rule of handling firearms safely will never turn out well. Moron putting the gun in his own mouth? Are you kidding? Watched the guy in the video remove the mag and rack the slide, but not visually inspect the chamber as clear. Nope, still loaded unless you have visual confirmation. Criminal Negligent Homicide. Man pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger!

 

[GOPerfect]

Even without all these "Firearm safety rules", what kind of idiots does this? Seriously. Even if no one told me these fancy rules, I would not put a gun, loaded or unloaded, in my mouth of point it at another person for fun.

Rules are meaningless when dealing with morons and idiots!

 

[Phazer]

Criminals do illegal things.

Idiots do stupid things.

Laws cannot protect us from them.

Laws cannot protect them from themselves.

 

[GOPerfect]

Seriously, what the hell did we as a people do before these organizations came out with all these rules of society?

 

[easyspeak]

Idiots playing with guns. Watched the guy in the video remove the mag and rack the slide, but not visually inspect the chamber as clear. Nope, still loaded unless you have visual confirmation. Criminal Negligent Homicide. Man pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger!

Thought I heard him pull the trigger after racking it? Sure sounded like it.

 

[spat]

Seriously, what the hell did we as a people do before these organizations came out with all these rules of society?

We had a lot fewer idiots survive long enough to reproduce.

 

[FN FAL]

Seriously, what the hell did we as a people do before these organizations came out with all these rules of society?

Tiddlywink

Jarts

William Tell

Street racing

BB gun wars

M80s

 

[Glenn B]

A

Accidents are unavoidable. Negligence is avoidable.

A tree falling on your car as you're driving down the road is an accident. There's nothing you could do about it.

Unintentionally shooting someone is negligence. If you never point a gun at someone, you avoid the possibility of shooting someone.

So why is it that an automobile insurance companies call it a vehicular accident even if there is negligence involved. You fill out an accident report for the police even if there is negligence that caused the accident. You do not file a negligence report with either your insurer or the police - you file an accident report and then the insurer and the police assign liability based upon any findings of negligence.

Unintentionally shooting someone is indeed an accident and almost always due to negligence but not necessarily on the part of the shooter. That there is a finding of negligence involved though does not make it any less of an accident, just as with a car accident, it merely defines what and or who is at fault and who is liable because of that fault.

By the way, a tree falling on my car - say due to a lightning strike, just like my roof being partly torn off of my house by a storm, is called an Act of God (or for the heathens out there nowadays- An Act of Nature) - it is not considered an accident. An accident requires players (humans) to be involved with the cause at least indirectly of not directly.

 

[Glenn B]

Thought I heard him pull the trigger after racking it? Sure sounded like it.

It may have been empty and loaded again before the guy was shot.

 

[4excal]

It's funny you mention tree falling on your car. When I took my motorcycle class ages ago, the instructor said there's no such thing as a motorcycle accident. Then admitted maybe there was, if a tree fell on you.

Another one of those "can't be accident" guys eh?? Slipping on black ice,tire breaking off and crash,brakes failed..so many accidents can happen..to be so close minded is laughable IMO.

 

[FN FAL]

So why is it that an automobile insurance companies call it a vehicular accident even if there is negligence involved. You fill out an accident report for the police even if there is negligence that caused the accident. You do not file a negligence report with either your insurer or the police - you file an accident report and then the insurer and the police assign liability based upon any findings of negligence..

Don't even get me started. I've had three cars destroyed out from under me but since nobody was drunk they were "accidents". That's bull. Negligence should be punished the same no matter what the excuse.

You ask why they are car "accidents". That's because as a whole people expect to negligently destroy property and injury. And when the populace as a whole (inclusive of politicians) don't want to face the facts, we can warp the facts by calling it something else. Then find a good distraction like DWI, and everybody looks the other way. Don't get on me about defending DUI- I'm not. I'm saying that DUI, being old, talking on the phone, and not having snow tires are all equally negligent and should carry the same recognition and same punishment.

Most auto collisions ARE negligence. But "we" don't want them to be, so they aren't. How convenient. Particularly for the leftists who are all for lack of accountability. So we'll have gun negligence, but not auto negligence, or parental negligence, food intake negligence, etc. Why can't we have tax accidents?

Semantics define responsibility. I am satisfied that the gun owners by-and-large are willing to describe these events involving firearms as "negligence." I only with we would admit that so many other actions of negligence are just that.

 

[GOPerfect]

Another one of those "can't be accident" guys eh?? Slipping on black ice,tire breaking off and crash,brakes failed..so many accidents can happen..to be so close minded is laughable IMO.

Really gotta watch out for that black ice!

 

[MothMan]

Black Ice Matters!!

 

[FN FAL]

Another one of those "can't be accident" guys eh?? Slipping on black ice,tire breaking off and crash,brakes failed..so many accidents can happen..to be so close minded is laughable IMO.

Slipping on black ice is likely failure to use proper tires, failure to adapt driving to conditions, failure to pay attention.

Tire breaking off is failure to maintain the vehicle. Brakes ditto.

None of those is an accident. It's negligence. If it's a factory defect then it's negligence on the part of the manufacturer.

According to NHTSB about 2% of collisions are factory defects. Back out deer and such, and you have 90+% of auto collisions being negligence.

 

[4excal]

Oh lordy