Adult ADHD Testing and CCW

[camper4lyfe]

I'm getting closer to seeing myself to a doctor to look into testing for ADHD. It's been a struggle for a long time and I'm finally getting sick of it.

My issue is the fact that I live in NYS. How screwed am I potentially going to be if I get to the point of diagnosis and medication when I finally go for my CCW, espcially since one medication route is antidepressants?

 

[GOPerfect]

Can you start the pp process prior to seeing a doctor? That way, no lies need be told...

 

[kev74]

The bigger issue than applying for a permit is that the state health department has been caught data mining prescription records and reporting people who are prescribed psychotropic drugs to the state police, who then cross reference the names with their gun registry records.

Its fucking disgusting that people have to take shit like this into consideration before they can see a doctor.

 

[camper4lyfe]

Can you start the pp process prior to seeing a doctor? That way, no lies need be told...

Potentially. I still have to find a new PCP. I haven't been to a doctor in years, and the last several I saw are no longer at the practice (they dropped like flies, and I never met half of the ones that were assigned to me after the first left)

 

[Catskillkid]

Would ADHD even classify as a mental illness? I wouldn't think so. If not, I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

[Doc8404]

Everything is a fkn mental illness now.
Have you tried natural methods?
biofeedback.

Neurofeedback as a Treatment Intervention in ADHD: Current Evidence and Practice

Current traditional treatments for ADHD present serious limitations in terms of long-term maintenance of symptom remission and side effects. Here, we provide an overview of the rationale and scientific evidence of the efficacy of neurofeedback in regulating ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Doc8404]

I use this when I need to.
staying up late for college and still need to function

several studies show positive results.

https://smile.amazon.com/Choline-Citicoline-Supplement-Pharmaceutical-Capsules/dp/B01A3BED8U

 

[Podmonkey]

ADHD IS NOT a mental illness, Jesus! It is a learning disability. A learning disability IS NOT Mental illness! Is a person that has dyslexia mentally ill? Neither is a person with ADHD.
@camper4lyfe, ADHD is a widely misunderstood condition so be prepared to deal with a great deal of ignorance from other people and even a degree of discrimination. However I don't think it should be an impediment to obtaining your CCW. If you are particularly concerned with the potential negatives of prescription medication, Adderall being the most common medication given to adults with ADHD- which is a mild amphetamine, it is possible with effort to cope with ADHD without medication. There are behavioral modifications and organizational techniques you can learn either as a substitute or in addition to medication. I was diagnosed as having a particularly strong case of ADHD as a young child, back before this disorder was widely known or well understood. I have struggled with it all my life so please feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I am not taking any medication currently but I have developed systems and routines that have allowed me to cope in my professional and personal life.

 

[Criticalt]

Do they even ask about this on pp application?
Ours asks if you have been involuntary put in a mental institution and if you are addicted to ILLEGAL drugs.
I dont think it will even come up.

 

[Podmonkey]

@camper4lyfe, I have to get to sleep at the moment, but truly, please contact me via PM if you have any questions or concerns that you think I could help you with. As someone that has been diagnosed with AHDH from a long time ago I have had the opportunity to speak with numerous individuals such as yourself over the years. When in highschool I even had the opportunity to speak at an educational seminar for teachers and several times at group talks with newly diagnosed students. And again several times with newly diagnosed adults.
I understand your struggle.

 

[libertysnake]

The bigger issue than applying for a permit is that the state health department has been caught data mining prescription records and reporting people who are prescribed psychotropic drugs to the state police, who then cross reference the names with their gun registry records.

Its fucking disgusting that people have to take shit like this into consideration before they can see a doctor.

Source?

 

[kev74]

Source?

There were several cases that made the news and were discussed here at length. I'm not going to try and dig them up right now.

 

[libertysnake]

There were several cases that made the news and were discussed here at length. I'm not going to try and dig them up right now.

I think you're referring to drugs that are controlled substances. Most are pain relievers, and I think have been reported since 2005 or so to NYS electronically. A lot of drugs for mental health are not controlled substances specifically, so they may not be reported normally.

EDIT: Actually, it might account for a wide range of things. I'm not sure if it was 2005, or maybe 2013 like listed here:

Electronic Data Transmission

Information about Electronic Data Transmission

www.health.ny.gov

At some point they did start to keep records of recent drug history. I wonder how many years they keep -- it looks to be a year. The intent looks to be to prevent abuse of people going doctor to doctor for pain meds. @Dr. Evil Might have more insight into how this functions.

EDIT2: Looks like it was March 27th, 2013 this even went into effect, so anything that date and beyond, from my understanding, would even be game to be in such records. https://regs.health.ny.gov/sites/de...nd_recordkeeping_of_controlled_substances.pdf

Records of all prescriptions filled or refilled shall be maintained for a period of at least five years and upon request made available for inspection and copying by a representative of the department. Such records shall indicate date of filling or refilling, doctor's name, patient's name and address and the name or initials of the pharmacist who prepared, compounded, or dispensed the prescription. Records of prescriptions for controlled substances shall be maintained pursuant to requirements of article thirty-three of the public health law.

NYS Pharmacy:Laws, Rules & Regulations:Article 137

New York Education Law Article 137 §6810 requires that all prescriptions be transmitted electronically three years from the Department of Health’s promulgating regulations allowing for the electronic prescribing of controlled substances. These regulations became effective on March 27, 2013.

https://health.ny.gov/professionals/narcotic/electronic_prescribing/docs/epcs_faqs.pdf

So, while it should only apply to controlled substances, it's possible @kev74 is right that it might contain more than that, since the law went into effect in 2013. There were federal laws as well that date back as far as 2005, but it's unclear how those records are kept / if they were ever digitized. It looks like prescriptions in general need to kept for five years, and made available upon request by NYS from one of the above quotes. Controlled stuff just might be more readily available.

Definitely interesting to know how much NYS keeps on you. Probably best to keep detailed records of your own in case you have to go through any legal questions.

 

[Robin]

Would ADHD even classify as a mental illness? I wouldn't think so. If not, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Then it must be a felony. C'mon man, its NY, that's the deal!
Robin

 

[Criticalt]

For what its worth I know people who have been on everything from benzos to methadone for years who have had their permits for decades with no issues.
The problem may come if you need to use your gun in self defense. Im sure the DA will bring it up legal or not.

 

[camper4lyfe]

I think you're referring to drugs that are controlled substances. Most are pain relievers, and I think have been reported since 2005 or so to NYS electronically. A lot of drugs for mental health are not controlled substances specifically, so they may not be reported normally.

EDIT: Actually, it might account for a wide range of things. I'm not sure if it was 2005, or maybe 2013 like listed here:

Electronic Data Transmission

Information about Electronic Data Transmission

www.health.ny.gov

At some point they did start to keep records of recent drug history. I wonder how many years they keep -- it looks to be a year. The intent looks to be to prevent abuse of people going doctor to doctor for pain meds. @Dr. Evil Might have more insight into how this functions.

EDIT2: Looks like it was March 27th, 2013 this even went into effect, so anything that date and beyond, from my understanding, would even be game to be in such records. https://regs.health.ny.gov/sites/de...nd_recordkeeping_of_controlled_substances.pdf

NYS Pharmacy:Laws, Rules & Regulations:Article 137

https://health.ny.gov/professionals/narcotic/electronic_prescribing/docs/epcs_faqs.pdf

So, while it should only apply to controlled substances, it's possible @kev74 is right that it might contain more than that, since the law went into effect in 2013. There were federal laws as well that date back as far as 2005, but it's unclear how those records are kept / if they were ever digitized. It looks like prescriptions in general need to kept for five years, and made available upon request by NYS from one of the above quotes. Controlled stuff just might be more readily available.

Definitely interesting to know how much NYS keeps on you. Probably best to keep detailed records of your own in case you have to go through any legal questions.

I can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pretty big case in Erie County. Guy had his permit pulled because he was prescribed medication for anxiety that he took prior to going to Dr appointments and such. He had had his permit for years without issue, then the "SAFE" Act came along and all of a sudden the gestapo is knocking on his door to take his guns away.

 

[Catskillkid]

I can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pretty big case in Erie County. Guy had his permit pulled because he was prescribed medication for anxiety that he took prior to going to Dr appointments and such. He had had his permit for years without issue, then the "SAFE" Act came along and all of a sudden the gestapo is knocking on his door to take his guns away.

I also believe be got them back quickly too iirc. I don't recall the details but he went online and the bad press and privacy violations put pressure on the state to get him his guns back.

 

[Podmonkey]

Is an Amphetamine a "psychotropic" drug?
All I know that ADHD medications are typically mild amphetamines which are stimulants.
ADHD results from a deficiency in the transmission of neurotransmitters across the synapses, specifically an issue with the re-uptake of certain neurotransmitter chemicals on the receiving synapse side. The idea behind stimulants is simply to flood those synapses with neurotransmitters to compensate for the re-uptake deficiency.

 

[Doc8404]

Read up on citicoline as I posted.
I am sure there are other supplements that can help.

 

[camper4lyfe]

Everything is a fkn mental illness now.
Have you tried natural methods?
biofeedback.

Neurofeedback as a Treatment Intervention in ADHD: Current Evidence and Practice

Current traditional treatments for ADHD present serious limitations in terms of long-term maintenance of symptom remission and side effects. Here, we provide an overview of the rationale and scientific evidence of the efficacy of neurofeedback in regulating ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I haven't tried anything yet, as I'm just now coming to grips with, and admitting that there's something going on.

I use this when I need to.
staying up late for college and still need to function

several studies show positive results.

https://smile.amazon.com/Choline-Citicoline-Supplement-Pharmaceutical-Capsules/dp/B01A3BED8U

Reading up on this now. It may be worth a try.

 

[redtail]

There is no HIPPA anymore in nyistan , beware.

 

[camper4lyfe]

There is no HIPPA anymore in nyistan , beware.

Hence my concern

 

[kev74]

Is an Amphetamine a "psychotropic" drug?
All I know that ADHD medications are typically mild amphetamines which are stimulants.
ADHD results from a deficiency in the transmission of neurotransmitters across the synapses, specifically an issue with the re-uptake of certain neurotransmitter chemicals on the receiving synapse side. The idea behind stimulants is simply to flood those synapses with neurotransmitters to compensate for the re-uptake deficiency.

Just like anything else in NY that affects gun owners, it isn't clearly spelled out in the law and is therefore subject to abuse.

This state sucks anymore.

 

[libertysnake]

I can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pretty big case in Erie County. Guy had his permit pulled because he was prescribed medication for anxiety that he took prior to going to Dr appointments and such. He had had his permit for years without issue, then the "SAFE" Act came along and all of a sudden the gestapo is knocking on his door to take his guns away.

So he was prescribed the meds after the SAFE act took place? It was shortly after he was prescribed meds? I assume post 2013, or 2005?

What was the outcome of the case? Did they give him his permit back?

 

[libertysnake]

There is no HIPPA anymore in nyistan , beware.

I agree. The privacy violations are insane now. They completely destroyed the Doctor / Patient relationship. Once you destroy the sanctity of that, then you open up pandoras boxes on liability and other stuff that cause the doctor to have to question their advice, despite it being sound or wise advise to give.

Would be interesting to see @Dr. Evil 's take on this, but I assume he'll probably concur. The state should not mess with people and their doctors.

 

[libertysnake]

Just like anything else in NY that affects gun owners, it isn't clearly spelled out in the law and is therefore subject to abuse.

This state sucks anymore.

The flip side is this gives a lot of discretion to local PP offices to interpret as they see fit. That's both a good and a bad thing.

 

[ikilledkenny]

I agree. The privacy violations are insane now. They completely destroyed the Doctor / Patient relationship. Once you destroy the sanctity of that, then you open up pandoras boxes on liability and other stuff that cause the doctor to have to question their advice, despite it being sound or wise advise to give.

Would be interesting to see @Dr. Evil 's take on this, but I assume he'll probably concur. The state should not mess with people and their doctors.

i was at doctor's office recently for annual checkup [new doctor].

they had a question in the form asking 'do you own any firearms' [or along those lines]

i dont ever recall seeing that on any of the forms in previous years, [could be new?]
i chose not to answer it.

 

[camper4lyfe]

So he was prescribed the meds after the SAFE act took place? It was shortly after he was prescribed meds? I assume post 2013, or 2005?

What was the outcome of the case? Did they give him his permit back?

New York Librarian Loses Pistol Permit Because of Past Prescription for Anti-Anxiety Meds

David Lewis, 35, is a college librarian who lives in Amherst, N.Y., not far from Buffalo. He is a licensed pistol-owner who enjoys target-shooting. He has no criminal record and has never issued threats or done anything that would cause concern about his access to a firearm. Although there is no...

www.outdoorlife.com

It appears the meds were prescribed prior to 2013. He did eventually get his guns back, but it was a long, and expensive process.

Buffalo man's pistol permit wrongly suspended under the state Safe Act

Judge rules today that 35-year-old college librarian can have his permit reinstated and get his handguns back.

www.syracuse.com

NYS Police Admit To Major Mistake In Gun Confiscation Case — NYAPRS

NYAPRS Note: The most alarming question here is how the taking of psychiatric medications, and not the apparent sharing of thoughts of harming self or others per the SAFE Act (a law that budget negotiators were unwilling to amend) prompted state police action. Advocates will be contacting Administra

www.nyaprs.org

 

[Bob]

New York Librarian Loses Pistol Permit Because of Past Prescription for Anti-Anxiety Meds

David Lewis, 35, is a college librarian who lives in Amherst, N.Y., not far from Buffalo. He is a licensed pistol-owner who enjoys target-shooting. He has no criminal record and has never issued threats or done anything that would cause concern about his access to a firearm. Although there is no...

www.outdoorlife.com

It appears the meds were prescribed prior to 2013. He did eventually get his guns back, but it was a long, and expensive process.

Buffalo man's pistol permit wrongly suspended under the state Safe Act

Judge rules today that 35-year-old college librarian can have his permit reinstated and get his handguns back.

www.syracuse.com

NYS Police Admit To Major Mistake In Gun Confiscation Case — NYAPRS

NYAPRS Note: The most alarming question here is how the taking of psychiatric medications, and not the apparent sharing of thoughts of harming self or others per the SAFE Act (a law that budget negotiators were unwilling to amend) prompted state police action. Advocates will be contacting Administra

www.nyaprs.org

I was just going to post those.
While I have absolutely no doubts that the guy got screwed, his lawyer was also Tresmond. With the benefit of hindsight relative to Tresmonds, the entire story should now be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[kev74]

The flip side is this gives a lot of discretion to local PP offices to interpret as they see fit. That's both a good and a bad thing.

If you think a permit issuing official is going to do anything other than pull a permit when the get a report from the State Police that a pistol permit holder is taking medication typically prescribed to people with mental disorders, you're dreaming.

Even the most pro 22s judge is going to pull their permit. If the judge is a good guy, they might notify the guy that he's entitled to a hearing to try and get his stuff back.