Sixbennetts
.45 acp
Kinda like the proverbial synthetic vs regular motor oil thread in, like, EVERY forum that involves engines?! 
AR Pistol Permit Q's.
- Thread starter Sixbennetts
- Start date
The problem lies with we have no law or case law to follow so at this point everything is an interpretation. We have options that are very legally sound and others that skirt the line. So I guess what is your threshold of risk and I can point you towards an option.
Sixbennetts
.45 acp
I'd like to explore all options. I have shoulder problems, hence the brace.
So, a list of search terms would be fine. Brands, types, etc.
Thanks!
So, a list of search terms would be fine. Brands, types, etc.
Thanks!
twax100
9mm
AR Mag Lock seems to be a popular one. Again the legality is questionable but I guess it's all questionable...
Mag lock seems to be the middle ground. I use one and feel it's adequate. But like I stated above its the middle of the risk pool.
Most safe is a bullet button with epoxy over the hole. This disables the bullet button function and has nothing to with permanence. There is also the prince 50 that shares the same idea as the BB. Some people have also just used hardware store bolts and misc to fix a magazine in place.
Lastly the most risky would be a bolt interrupter. This is where you need to realise the bolt after every pull if the trigger. The idea is you have a single shot firearm and not a semi automatic.
Most safe is a bullet button with epoxy over the hole. This disables the bullet button function and has nothing to with permanence. There is also the prince 50 that shares the same idea as the BB. Some people have also just used hardware store bolts and misc to fix a magazine in place.
Lastly the most risky would be a bolt interrupter. This is where you need to realise the bolt after every pull if the trigger. The idea is you have a single shot firearm and not a semi automatic.
twax100
9mm
Why do you think that's most risky? Seems to me that it would no longer fit the description. Key words being "chamber the next round".
21. "Semiautomatic" means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol,
regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the
energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge
case or spent shell and chamber the next round, and which requires a
separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
So? The only other choice is revolver.....
Sixbennetts
.45 acp
Yup, too late. Already listed as semi.
Uzi
.308 Win
Where are they listing it as "semi"? on your actual permit? I don't think any of my guns say they're semi automatic or anything. I feel like if I wanted to have a bolt action, I'd probably be okay with just making it bolt action without steering through any additional hoops.
twax100
9mm
I had no problem doing an additional amendment for my Glock 22 (.40) when I wanted to add a conversion barrel to it to shoot 9mm. I don't see how this is any different.
But again, what would he change it to? Revolver?
What would a darrenger be then? I will have to check my permit, because I just got the cards and don't know what's listed on it. If you want to keep it a semi then you will have to go with a magazine lock of some sorts.
As far as why I think the bolt interrupter is the most risky is due to the definition given in NYS penal code. I'm not going to muddy the thread with this argument. There's been two threads about this within the last week if you want to see the arguments.
Personally I am pretty excited that bulletguy got the interrupters in. Because I plan on using one for a pistol build myself. But admittedly I don't give a shit about the safe act.
As far as why I think the bolt interrupter is the most risky is due to the definition given in NYS penal code. I'm not going to muddy the thread with this argument. There's been two threads about this within the last week if you want to see the arguments.
Personally I am pretty excited that bulletguy got the interrupters in. Because I plan on using one for a pistol build myself. But admittedly I don't give a shit about the safe act.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
21. "Semiautomatic" means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol, regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the
energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge case or spent shell
It does that.
and chamber the next round,
It does that as well. A bolt catch doesn't negate the energy of the firing cartridge to chamber the round. It just momentarily interrupts it.When you press the button, what force brings the bolt home? It isn't the energy in your finger. Answer...The stored force (energy) in the buffer spring from the energy of the firing cartridge is what chambers the next round. Your finger didn't bring the bolt back. It just stopped the interruption. The energy from the previous round did.
and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell.
It does that as well.
Furthermore, if using weak ammo like PMC and the bolt doesn't go all the way back, it'll not engage the bolt catch and chamber the next round.
Also, if the button is held down, the energy of the projectile will eject and chamber the next round as per the definition of semi automatic.
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Uzi
.308 Win
Must be a county thing. Mine doesn't state anything about semi autos on it.
twax100
9mm
Well I can't say your wrong but I also can't say you're right.
By that logic though I'd have to say ALL fixed mag options are illegal. You may have to unpin, disassemble, remove hardware, remove welds but in the end the mag was inserted into the gun and eventually taken out. Regardless of the steps in between.
I get what you're saying, I just think it's a stretch.
What about an adjustable gas block that is turned off?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don't believe it to be a stretch but regarding the adjustable gas block, I believe that to NOT be semi automatic. The gases aren't doing anything if the block is turned off as per the semi automatic definition. You are doing everything manually.
As far as reversal goes with the adjustable gas block, there is no permanence in the law required. It's either in a semi automatic configuration or it isn't. The law doesn't say with the "ABILITY to be semi automatic" like it does with detachable magazines when it says with the "ABILITY to accept a detachable magazine." The word "ABILITY" implies permanence.
That's not to say that if a cop goes too far he cannot adjust the gas block himself to make the charges stick. If I were to build one like that, I'd have to figure out a way to make it extremely difficult for that to happen. Perhaps using anti tamper screws on the handguards so that they cannot be opened to adjust the gas block unless you have the key to the screws or drill them out.
Uzi
.308 Win
Nope.
Ability would imply under NY's laws that it's not able to do the task or action in its configuration. Real simple. That's why so many people have fixed mag AR's and build pistols that way. They mention nothing about permanence of that configuration, but it remians functionally fixed until modifications are made to the firearm to change that compliant option. You're still mistaking capability for immediate ability. Two different meanings often incorrectly used in place of each other. Literally there is nothing noted about not being able to switch to this to that from that to this. Basically you're essentially also stating by that logic it would be illegal for someone with a fixed magazine rifle to make a featureless rifle if they choose to because that magazine was locked at one point and it should have never been able to be unlocked or even as simple as stripping a fixed mag rifle/pistol into a completely stripped receiver again because it is a firearm that now has the "ability" to accept detachable magazines.
twax100
9mm
Uzi, that's how I was looking at it. I like your explanation.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Kinda like the proverbial synthetic vs regular motor oil thread in, like, EVERY forum that involves engines?!
You must hang out at bobistheoilguy.com
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. That's how the law is written. Nowhere does it say in its current configuration like California's law says. If it has the ability, it has the ability. You have to read the laws as they are written with no additions by you to serve your purposes.
That is why the "Ability" language wasn't used for features.
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Uzi
.308 Win
That's was funny, thanks for that.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You are welcome. For the record, if I ever decided to build a fixed magazine, I'd deliberately play ignorant too on what ability means.
GUNSICK
6.5 Creedmoor
Everyone's a lawyer day, again.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You don't need to be a lawyer to read law. Just a good comprehension of English is all that's required.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I don't get it. The FFL I got the receiver from in my profile pic just got the receiver and I went and paid for it. Then I went and filled out the paperwork at the clerks office. Then I went back and got the receiver. Then I built my "5.45x37" pistol. The whole permit process in NY is a joke.
GUNSICK
6.5 Creedmoor
That's exactly what my lawyer told me.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
In the extremely low chance you end up in court over it, the ADA reads the law and provides copies of the law for the jurors to read. There is no lawyer explaining anything or deciphering code. The jury reads it in English and decides if a law was broken.
GUNSICK
6.5 Creedmoor
And then?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And then you go to trial if they think it has the ability to accept.
