AR Pistol Permit Q's.

[Sixbennetts]

Hi all,

Well, I finally did it, bought a complete RF85 pistol marked lower from Anderson through my local gunshop. I asked her, "when do I get my coupon to add it to my pistol permit?"

Her answer, "You're just buying a lower from me, it's up to you to build it NYS compliant".

It's marked pistol right on the receiver, doesn't she have to sell it to me as a pistol? When/how do I put it on my permit?

Thanks!
Donny

 

[joemb]

I've been wondering the same thing. Can I add the receiver to my permit and then build it as a pistol when my permit gets amended?

 

[MilesTeg]

Lol sorry to be the bearer of bad new but your FFL kind of fucked you. There is no need to have the lower marked as s pistol, this has no benefit to you. Considering you have taken ownership of the lower made the process even more difficult. The correct way to go about it is to pay for a lower with the FFL doing the proper paperwork for the pistol permit office. Then they do an amendment to your permit. Then you return and take ownership of said lower. At this point you now technically have a AR pistol on your permit. It's up to you to follow the laws from there.

 

[Doc8404]

@Bullet Guy

 

[Deplorable Me]

Whereas the magazine is in front of the trigger and its weight is in excess of 50oz, is it even NY compliant?

 

[joemb]

Whereas the magazine is in front of the trigger and its weight is in excess of 50oz, is it even NY compliant?

The magazine cant be "removable" and you can keep the other features

 

[MilesTeg]

Whereas the magazine is in front of the trigger and its weight is in excess of 50oz, is it even NY compliant?

No weight limit with a fixed magazine.

To add to my first post, the AR pistol in this state is 95% paperwork. The rest is the hardware. So if you don't have an FFL or pistol permit officer that is willing to do the proper paperwork then your basically screwed.

 

[Sixbennetts]

I haven't taken ownership yet, it comes in tomorrow or the next day. I just paid for it today.

 

[MilesTeg]

Well in that case make them write it up as a pistol or ask for a refund. If you tell us a county someone might be able to give you more pointed advice. Every county is different in this state. Pretty crazy really.

 

[Sixbennetts]

Clinton County, way up in the northeast corner.

 

[MilesTeg]

They should be gun friendly enough up there. Hopefully one of the forum members up there have some experience that will help you.

You could also call the pistol permit office to see if they have done one yet and what to ask of the FFL.

I guess I lucked out all I had to do is ask for the lower to be wrote up as a pistol and it was a non issue.

 

[NY Leatherneck]

Here's a good thread from here about it.

AR-15 Pistol Build - Lets Talk About It

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Here's a good thread from here about it.

AR-15 Pistol Build - Lets Talk About It

Here is the rub. It is a paperwork thing, BUT technically UNLESS YOU HAVE AN 07 FIRARMS MANUFACTURE license it is against the law for an 01 FFL to receive a lower (other) and then "make" a pistol out of it. They are not authorized by the feds.

Yes. People do it. But technically it is illegal for the ffl to do this.

Thx. Save me typing more:

The issue is, if the loan was transferred to your FFL as in other, and that is the correct way to do that, your FFL is then going to check it out as a pistol, which means he's manufactured a pistol. Which is technically not legal for him to do.

In New York whenever you receive a pistol you must send a P 12 form to the state police saying they received a pistol and who from, when you sell a pistol you need to send the same form that you sold it and who you sold it to.

So your FF L probably did not complete this P 12, when he received it, which could present a little problem for him in the future.

Again, this is the black-and-white version. I know that this happens in the gray area. You just need to understand what's going on.

In my opinion it is better for everyone involved to either buy the one that Jem has listed for sale, or have a pistol brought in the correct way.

We have AR pistols available for purchase if you decide to go that route.

 

[Sixbennetts]

But if it's marked pistol right on it, can she get a statement or any other kind of paperwork from the manufacturer, (in this case, Anderson), saying such, and then submit the P12 for the transfer to her, wait a few days, and submit it again for the transfer to me?

I guess I just can't get my head around how she can buy it from Anderson as anything other than a pistol, when it's clearly stamped pistol.

Is there any way she can do this, if I can convince her?

 

[Jem45472]

No need for a pistol marked lower next time. For mine I just had my ffl make a receipt for the county stating it was a pistol with make, model, caliber, serial number. You need this receipt for the county, and need an ffl willing to do it. All county's are different and mine was no problem as long as that information is on the receipt. The word ar needs not to be mentioned at all. If your ffl doesn't provide you with that information you're best off selling it.

 

[MilesTeg]

But if it's marked pistol right on it, can she get a statement or any other kind of paperwork from the manufacturer, (in this case, Anderson), saying such, and then submit the P12 for the transfer to her, wait a few days, and submit it again for the transfer to me?

I guess I just can't get my head around how she can buy it from Anderson as anything other than a pistol, when it's clearly stamped pistol.

Is there any way she can do this, if I can convince her?

The marking on the lower is irrelevant, the only thing is important is the paperwork. It's legal to build that lower into a rifle even with the marking. Now there is a federal law that comes into play that you can build a pistol into a rifle and be 100% legal. But you can't build a rifle into a pistol and be legal. This law was getting some attention a while ago so IDK if that's still the case.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

But if it's marked pistol right on it, can she get a statement or any other kind of paperwork from the manufacturer, (in this case, Anderson), saying such, and then submit the P12 for the transfer to her, wait a few days, and submit it again for the transfer to me?

I guess I just can't get my head around how she can buy it from Anderson as anything other than a pistol, when it's clearly stamped pistol.

Is there any way she can do this, if I can convince her?

No. It is not a pistol. It is A LOWER (transfered as "other".

Anderson transfered it as an other. That is what is is. They will never say it is a pistol. (Excise tax etc etc)

Sorry man! Unless she give you paperwork for the pp office you are SOL.

Again. If she is an 01 she can not "make" a pistol legally anyway. (I understand. Many people do it.....)

I have an ar pistol in stock for $599.99. Complete.

Here is the rub. It is a paperwork thing, BUT technically UNLESS YOU HAVE AN 07 FIRARMS MANUFACTURE license it is against the law for an 01 FFL to receive a lower (other) and then "make" a pistol out of it. They are not authorized by the feds.

Yes. People do it. But technically it is illegal for the ffl to do this.

Thx. Save me typing more:

The issue is, if the loawet was transferred to your FFL as in other, and that is the correct way to do that, your FFL is then going to check it out as a pistol, which means he's manufactured a pistol. Which is technically not legal for him to do.

In New York whenever you receive a pistol you must send a P 12 form to the state police saying they received a pistol and who from, when you sell a pistol you need to send the same form that you sold it and who you sold it to.

So your FF L probably did not complete this P 12, when he received it, which could present a little problem for him in the future.

Again, this is the black-and-white version. I know that this happens in the gray area. You just need to understand what's going on.

In my opinion it is better for everyone involved to either buy the one that Jem has listed for sale, or have a pistol brought in the correct way.

We have AR pistols available for purchase if you decide to go that route.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I guess I just can't get my head around how she can buy it from Anderson as anything other than a pistol, when it's clearly stamped pistol.

Cause it is not a pistol. It is an "other". Same reason why we can still transfer lowers after the safe act. Cause lowers are NOT pistols or rifles.

Read the federal definition of pistols, rifles, shotguns and "other". That may help your understanding.

 

[Sixbennetts]

So, I guess I'm FUACed!

If I found an 03 FFL in my area, Bullet Guy, could I bring all the parts, (when I get the rest), and pay to have him make me a pistol from them?

If that would work, how do I find the closest 03?

(We live on my military disability payment, so I have time to research this. It also means it will take me time to purchase all the parts).

Thanks, guys. Really.

 

[MilesTeg]

Have you talked to your PP office yet? If they are ok with AR pistols all your FFL would have to do is write up the sales as he would normally do with any pistol. If you take ownership of the lower then you will have to buy another one to do this project. If the lower is sold to you as an "other" it's hard to convince someone "legally speaking" that said lower was at no point a rifle. Because of this you would be in violation of federal law.

 

[Jem45472]

Have you talked to your PP office yet? If they are ok with AR pistols all your FFL would have to do is write up the sales as he would normally do with any pistol. If you take ownership of the lower then you will have to buy another one to do this project. If the lower is sold to you as an "other" it's hard to convince someone "legally speaking" that said lower was at no point a rifle. Because of this you would be in violation of federal law.

Asking the pp office is a slippery slope, better off with no mention of it and just build a compliant pistol. Either way he is going to need someone to do the paperwork for him.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

all your FFL would have to do is write up the sales as he would normally do with any pistol. .

Have you read anything i posted?

Sometimes i question my sanity as why i even bother?

A P12 is required. Thta tells the sp where you got yhe pistol from.

It is a LOWER. OTHER. NOT A PISTOL. an 01 ffl thta makes a pistol outta a lower IS BREAKING FEDERAL LAW!

Yes it happens. But it is still illegal. They need an 07 ffl. Pay excise tax. Itar. Etc etc.

 

[Sixbennetts]

BG, what are my chances of finding an 07 FFL that can/would make a pistol out of this?

 

[MilesTeg]

Have you read anything i posted?

Sometimes i question my sanity as why i even bother?

A P12 is required. Thta tells the sp where you got yhe pistol from.

It is a LOWER. OTHER. NOT A PISTOL. an 01 ffl thta makes a pistol outta a lower IS BREAKING FEDERAL LAW!

Yes it happens. But it is still illegal. They need an 07 ffl. Pay excise tax. Itar. Etc etc.

Yes I read it and I know your correct but the reality is that's how must of us acquire an AR pistol in this crap hole state.

I do have a question about your comment though. If you buy a "finished/assembled" lower with the intent of making a pistol out of it. Will this transfer then be a pistol instead of an other?

Also another scenario if you purchase a pistol frame I.e. Glock frame, 2011 frame or 1911 frame. Would they be transferred as others or pistols? Because I know Glock lowers can be made into a carbine or pistol, the other two I don't know about.

Please don't take my scenarios as a jab at your stance because I know your correct. I'm asking more for my own education. I also know we are stuck in a cluster fuck of laws between state and federally that really makes things difficult for the ordinary citizen.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@MilesTeg

Glock lowers should be transfered as other/receiver. (As far as i know all glocks started as pistols. So they can go either way [like @GUNSICK ].). But if you get a lower only then it should be booked in as a receiver/other. No 07 is needed to make it a pistol as it was a pistol originally and all the taxes etc etc have been paid.

A complete lower is still an other. Definitions of rifle (fired from shoulder) etc etc need to be met to be a rifle,pistol etc etc. that is why they ae "other" cause they dont fit any other definition.

I hope this helps.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

BG, what are my chances of finding an 07 FFL that can/would make a pistol out of this?

To legally make it a pistol they must "manufacture " it, pay excise, and engrave their names onto it. OR. Sell it to a friend outta state. Let them build a compliant pistol and then ship it back to a ny FFL as a bona fide pistol. Problem solved.

Buy a bona fide pistol. That is the easiest way IF you FFL wont give you the correct paperwork to take to the pp bureau .

 

[Sixbennetts]

*update

Ok, so I was able to add a complete Anderson pistol-marked lower and 10.5" barrel to my pistol permit. Rhonda and her employees at X-plo Guns, Military Turnpike in Plattsburgh were extremely helpful. Because I bought the 5.56 barrel at the same time, and got a receipt saying such, the county clerk didn't bat an eye at it. Not sure how it would have gone if the receipt said multi-cal, which is what's stamped on it. So, I can't say for certain whether Clinton County allows multi-cal on the permit for a build.

I now have an AR on my pistol permit. Thank you all for your help and patience, as I reenter the AR world.

Donny

 

[MilesTeg]

I'm glad it worked out for. Please post pictures when you have it complete.

 

[Sixbennetts]

Sure will. Gotta save for an RF85 complete upper with BCG, (which will take quite a while on my mil disability payments).

I'll update when things happen.

While I have everyone, what mag fixing options are acceptable nowadays?

 

[MilesTeg]

Sure will. Gotta save for an RF85 complete upper with BCG, (which will take quite a while on my mil disability payments).

I'll update when things happen.

While I have everyone, what mag fixing options are acceptable nowadays?

Contact bullet guy. He has a few options. If you think an AR pistol is a controversial topic mag fixing is way worse.

@Bullet Guy