Armed bounty hunters enter home in Buffalo with police and no warrant

[Chevusa]

So, what's the line ?

You claim they don't even need probable cause for a search.

Reasonable suspicion ?

A hunch ?

"It's OK your honor, my trick knee told me the fugitive was in there, and it's never wrong" ?

What does the law look like in your world ?

Never claimed that. I'm sure there was credible intelligence that he was living there. They didn't take a road trip for the heck of it.

Let it play out.

 

[drowhawk]

Are they being charged with a crime? I must have missed that part.

Haha, they might be now!!!

Again, these recovery agents didn't drive to that specific house for no reason. It's unreasonable to think they did. Let the facts play out and we will either see it was the criminals residence or it wasn't. We do not have those facts right now, but I don't think they just decided to take a road trip to Buffalo for no reason. The most obvious simplest answer is usually the right one. Not sure why some want to go as far out of their way as possible to take the stance that it's impossible that the criminal was living there. Seems pretty reasonable to believe that because he was on the run from his crimes in PA he thought he could stay with his family in NY to escape justice.

I know, authorities never make mistakes.

Qualified immunity: Police off the hook for no-knock raid on wrong house

A federal judge says the officers who raided the wrong house and arrested an innocent elderly man have immunity. Now, it's up to the court of appeals to decide.

www.11alive.com

A Tennessee man is tackled by a SWAT team in a raid -- but it's the wrong house, and wrong man | CNN

Armed with a federal search warrant, weapons, body armor and flash-bang grenades, DEA agents and members of the Bradley County SWAT team crept up to a house in Cleveland, Tennessee, before dawn Tuesday and then burst inside.

www.cnn.com

FBI SWAT team raids wrong house in Fort Smith, couple left shaken up by the incident

During a multi-county drug sting that took place in the River Valley Thursday, FBI agents raided the wrong home in Fort Smith.

www.5newsonline.com

Melbourne officer off the job after SWAT team raids wrong house

An officer is off the job after the city's SWAT team raided the wrong house.

www.clickorlando.com

Oh phuck. Looks like the "pros" even get it wrong.

 

[spat]

Never claimed that. I'm sure there was credible intelligence that he was living there. They didn't take a road trip for the heck of it.

Let it play out.

We've already established (like how I throw that in there) that's it's impossible for them to have "credible intelligence" for *all* the places they searched. If they had evidence for one, that would undermine any evidence for the others.

 

[Chevusa]

We've already established (like how I throw that in there) that's it's impossible for them to have "credible intelligence" for *all* the places they searched. If they had evidence for one, that would undermine any evidence for the others.

Let it play out. A news article online does not equal proven facts. You probably know about 2% of the facts and information. Remain calm.

 

[spat]

Let it play out. A news article online does not equal proven facts. You probably know about 2% of the facts and information. Remain calm.

There is no conceivable set of facts that could justify this.

Go ahead, try to make up something up.

 

[Chevusa]

There is no conceivable set of facts that could justify this.

Go ahead, try to make up something up.

Let it play out. Do not get emotional.

 

[spat]

Do not get emotional.

Why not ?

 

[GOPerfect]

Not sure what your security guard comments mean or how they pertain to me. You have no idea what I do. You'd probably shit yourself if you did.

Oh and the 4A doesn't apply as has already been explained countless times by several members here. They do not work for the state and are not governed by the same rules as the police. I posted a lengthy explanation from slate.com outlining their extraordinary powers. They act as a proxy of the state allowing them to operate at a very high level, yet are not bound by the same rules as police are. Not sure how you missed this very descriptive post or maybe you just blocked it out because those facts don't agree with your feelings.

Seriously dude, you talk a lot of shit about what you do, but you never expound about it. All you do is talk shit. The more that I read your posts, the more I know you have very little clue of what you speak.

Seriously, from past posts in past threads, you have stated that you have had very basic training, but now, all of a sudden, you are an expert in all law and policies.

You look more foolish each and every time you type into this forum.

Seriously, instead of talking shit, how about you just tell us all exactly what you do and your exact training.....

 

[Chevusa]

Why not ?

Emotional people do not make sound decisions.

 

[GOPerfect]

Never claimed that. I'm sure there was credible intelligence that he was living there. They didn't take a road trip for the heck of it.

Let it play out.

I will repeat, again, I posted the laws of NY State. Even if he were staying there, it is 100% against the law for them to enter. You claim to be such an expert, but you refuse to pick up and understand real facts!

 

[spat]

Emotional people do not make sound decisions.

None of us are making any decisions in this case.

But if this doesn't piss you off, you're doing "freedom" wrong.

 

[GOPerfect]

Seriously dude, you talk a lot of shit about what you do, but you never expound about it. All you do is talk shit. The more that I read your posts, the more I know you have very little clue of what you speak.

Seriously, from past posts in past threads, you have stated that you have had very basic training, but now, all of a sudden, you are an expert in all law and policies.

You look more foolish each and every time you type into this forum.

Seriously, instead of talking shit, how about you just tell us all exactly what you do and your exact training.....

@Chevusa you give me a Haha, but you remain silent to your exact training and experience. Afraid to be exact?

Many of the forum members have gone into great detail of what they do, their education and their background; you? All you do is sit back throw garbage around and insult the knowledge levels of others.

 

[GOPerfect]

OH, and I have no emotions in this. I do not care about any player involved in this. I do not know any of them, so , I do not care about them at all.

 

[spat]

Not sure what your security guard comments mean or how they pertain to me. You have no idea what I do. You'd probably shit yourself if you did.

Oh and the 4A doesn't apply as has already been explained countless times by several members here. They do not work for the state and are not governed by the same rules as the police. I posted a lengthy explanation from slate.com outlining their extraordinary powers. They act as a proxy of the state allowing them to operate at a very high level, yet are not bound by the same rules as police are. Not sure how you missed this very descriptive post or maybe you just blocked it out because those facts don't agree with your feelings.

So, they're not agents of the government, just private citizens ?

Then this was simply an armed home invasion.

Oh, but they *are* agents of the government, sort of, because someone doesn't know how to read a SCOTUS decision and thinks that a fugitive can sign away *someone else's* rights when they sign for a bond.

The fugitive signs away *their own* rights as a condition of accepting the bond. They cannot sign away anybody else's. Quite literally that SCOTUS decision says the BH's have the right to go anywhere *the fugitive* has a right to. But not anywhere he doesn't.

If the fugitive had kicked in his brothers door at gunpoint it would be an armed home invasion. So, it is with the BH's too.

You simply can't sign something away in a contract that you don't have a right to to begin with.

 

[drowhawk]

You simply can't sign something away in a contract that you don't have a right to to begin with.

Man I wish someone would tell sleepy Joe.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

 

[FRB]

Oh and the 4A doesn't apply

No one is above the constitution NO ONE!

 

[Chevusa]

I will repeat, again, I posted the laws of NY State. Even if he were staying there, it is 100% against the law for them to enter. You claim to be such an expert, but you refuse to pick up and understand real facts!

Please cite the code of these NY laws that specifically pertain to enforcement agents apprehending a criminal. I would like to glance at them.

Separately, do you know the facts of the SC decisions that give them their power? Do you throughly know the history of such decisions and all relative case law and precedents set? I don't. I don't think you or anyone else here does either. Thats why I say let it play out. For all we know people are stomping their feet and spiking their blood pressure for nothing. I couldn't care less what happens to any of these people. I don't know them and it's not my problem. Fuck em all. Whatever is right will be done. No need to get excited in the mean time.

 

[Chevusa]

So, they're not agents of the government, just private citizens ?

Then this was simply an armed home invasion.

Oops! You revealed your hand by that comment. It shows you do not know of the SC decisions that they derive their power from. Not sure why you refuse to pick up on that fact, again.

 

[Chevusa]

No one is above the constitution NO ONE!

The constitution limits the government. That is all.

 

[spat]

No one is above the constitution NO ONE!

The constitution is a restriction on government though, not on the people.

When some thug breaks into your house, it's burglary, not a 4th ammendment violation.

The thing here is that these BH's want it both ways. They want powers reserved for government agents, but not the restrictions that the constitution imposes on them.

SCOTUS said that the bondsman can require their customer to sign away some of their rights as part of the deal.

This isn't really groundbreaking, people do that all the time. If your employer can require you to sign an NDA as a condition of your employment (restricting your right to free speech) then certainly the bondee can be required to sign away some of their 4th ammendment rights to get the bond.

However, the bondee can only sign away his own rights, he has no right to sign over anybody else's.

Just like I can give a contractor permission to tear up my backyard, but I can't give him permission to tear up my neighbors.

 

[Chevusa]

When some thug breaks into your house, it's burglary

Burglary requires 2 prongs to be met. Simply entering a home is not burglary. Surprised you didn't know that as you seem to be an expert on all other matters.

 

[FRB]

Burglary requires 2 prongs to be met. Simply entering a home is not burglary. Surprised you didn't know that as you seem to be an expert on all other matters.

Now we are reaching pettifoggery level...

 

[Chevusa]

Now we are reaching pettifoggery level...

You need 2 things for a burglary charge in NY. I'm sure he is now frantically searching google to figure it out and will then come back and try to twist his way out of this.

As for the situation of which this thread is titled after, I just don't care. It's not my problem. Am I a careless asshole? Yep. Some of you might try it. It's fantastic. It'll all play itself out in due time.

 

[spat]

Burglary requires 2 prongs to be met. Simply entering a home is not burglary. Surprised you didn't know that as you seem to be an expert on all other matters.

I never said that mere breaking and entering was burglary.

I said that a burglar wasn't violating your 4th amendment rights, despite his obviously unreasonable search of your house.


Also, what these BH's did certainly sounds like it meets the NY definition of burglary to me.

 

[FRB]

Pettifoggery was a proper word in describing your post to him, as we know the point of fact he was getting at with saying burglary showing a difference with a private individual and a government official.

****
Got to go, have a public hearing I am conducting tonight on police reform at my town hall (per emperor Andy not so Dandy's edicts). Later gater.

 

[GOPerfect]

Pettifoggery was a proper word in describing your post to him, as we know the point of fact he was getting at with saying burglary showing a difference with a private individual and a government official.

****
Got to go, have a public hearing I am conducting tonight on police reform at my town hall (per emperor Andy not so Dandy's edicts). Later gater.

That sounds interesting.

You will have to tell us more about this when you get a chance

 

[Edwardteach72]

Pettifoggery was a proper word in describing your post to him, as we know the point of fact he was getting at with saying burglary showing a difference with a private individual and a government official.

****
Got to go, have a public hearing I am conducting tonight on police reform at my town hall (per emperor Andy not so Dandy's edicts). Later gater.

That sounds interesting.

You will have to tell us more about this when you get a chance

Agreed.. maybe if you have time later tonight or tomorrow we can get a thread from you on this

 

[Chevusa]

I never said that mere breaking and entering was burglary.

I said that a burglar wasn't violating your 4th amendment rights, despite his obviously unreasonable search of your house.


Also, what these BH's did certainly sounds like it meets the NY definition of burglary to me.

Sorry you want to pretend to be an all knowing expert on all matters so I have to call you out on it. Here's your quote again "When some thug breaks into your house, it's burglary". That is factually wrong. Does it matter? Not really. Does it show that you are indeed not an expert and may not be as smart as you think? Absolutely.

 

[Chevusa]

Also, what these BH's did certainly sounds like it meets the NY definition of burglary to me.

It certainly doesn't. Not sure why you haven't bothered to look up with must happen for it to be burglary. Oh and nothing is up to you, so I don't know why you get so worked up over it. Move on.