Armed bounty hunters enter home in Buffalo with police and no warrant

[dwa12479]

There's an assumption here that this brother was "harboring a fugitive". Its quite possible that the brother who's home was raided had no idea that his sibling had skipped bail. It was 3 misdemeanor charges in another state, nothing major. I think it quite reasonable that maybe the bail jumper never told his brother anything.

I sure as shit wouldn't hide my brother in my home if he was a dangerous wanted felon with my pregnant wife and 3 yr old and I thought the authorities would come looking for him guns blazing.

 

[Chevusa]

We can bypass the fact that you're not answering my question about why you keep assuming these people are scumbag criminals and they deserve the treatment they got from the righteous bounty hunters.

Didn't see this specific question. sorry. not going to read ecveryhitng here.

I think it is reasonable to assume that they knew he was on the run and a criminal. I also dont believe that he hasn't been there. I think they are liars as is the case almost every time in these situations. Just about every time the answer is the same "nope haven't seen him in months" then hes found hiding under the bed. Gotta use your head and not believe everything youre told.

 

[GOPerfect]

Well it does however say they may even enter (forcefully) into hotel rooms which are also not peoples homes so it appears there is more to this than you or I know. I'm sure there was some knowledge, information, or observation that supported their lawful entry. May be not but that will need to be proven. Innocent until proven guilty.

Again, this was not a hotel room. This was a private, two private residents.

It is okay that you are wrong in your statements.

Funny, I have reached out to some friends and it appears I know all kinds of good things about this case. I will NOT be going into what I have found out.

Just know, you should really quit while, I was going to say ahead, but you are not. Safe to say, you are wrong.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Again, this was not a hotel room. This was a private, two private residents.

It is okay that you are wrong in your statements.

Funny, I have reached out to some friends and it appears I know all kinds of good things about this case. I will NOT be going into what I have found out.

Just know, you should really quit while, I was going to say ahead, but you are not. Safe to say, you are wrong.

Just wait he is going to reach out to his security guard buddies now and get all the information as well.... oh wait

 

[GOPerfect]

There's an assumption here that this brother was "harboring a fugitive". Its quite possible that the brother who's home was raided had no idea that his sibling had skipped bail. It was 3 misdemeanor charges in another state, nothing major. I think it quite reasonable that maybe the bail jumper never told his brother anything.

I sure as shit wouldn't hide my brother in my home if he was a dangerous wanted felon with my pregnant wife and 3 yr old and I thought the authorities would come looking for him guns blazing.

In New York State, even if the Bail jumper was in the brothers home, they are not legally allowed in the home. They are really not legally allowed to enter the other and very separate apartment like they did.

More will be coming out about this story....

 

[Chevusa]

Again, this was not a hotel room. This was a private, two private residents.

It is okay that you are wrong in your statements.

Funny, I have reached out to some friends and it appears I know all kinds of good things about this case. I will NOT be going into what I have found out.

Just know, you should really quit while, I was going to say ahead, but you are not. Safe to say, you are wrong.

ok

 

[GOPerfect]

I will not be posting anymore in this particular thread, I have turned off notifications to it.

 

[dwa12479]

You are a fool and have shown it here. Why are you defending criminal scum? Give us another media talking point. Pregnant. Check. Gunpoint check. Lol stop. It’s predictable as can be. Let me guess she could feel the cold barrel of the gun on her forehead? They had a lawful reason and authority to enter. This was listed as his home. It wasn’t a random home that happened to be the relatives. You don’t pick up on clues too well huh? They were related because that’s where he lives! Ding ding ding! Him not being home at the time or slipping out the back doesn’t negate anything. It’s lawful. End of story. This is shown by the facts and actions. They did not call the police to conspire to commit a crime. If you are doing something you shouldn’t be you don’t call the cops that you don’t even know to come meet you there beforehand. Start picking up on the clues.

I don't believe I've ever met a bigger bloviator either in-person or online. Get over yourself bro. Seriously.

 

[dwa12479]

In New York State, even if the Bail jumper was in the brothers home, they are not legally allowed in the home. They are really not legally allowed to enter the other and very separate apartment like they did.

More will be coming out about this story....

That's my understanding as well. Agreed.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Moral of the story. Get a reinforced front door with camera and speaker system.

 

[spat]

They didn't magically happen upon the home randomly. Not sure why you are assuming the guy didn't live there and list such in court and other documents. Lots of accusations and blaming here with nothing to back it up. If you're going to charge you must prove your charges. Go ahead please. otherwise we shall assume all is proper. Thats how it works.

No, that is *not* how it works LOL.

Not sure what sort of course it was you took, but I can assure you the police (let alone bounty hunters) are expected to be able to prove that they did everything correctly.

A good lawyer will trip them up if they so much as missed a dot on a i on one of the requisite forms.

 

[spat]

Well it does however say they may even enter (forcefully) into hotel rooms which are also not peoples homes so it appears there is more to this than you or I know. I'm sure there was some knowledge, information, or observation that supported their lawful entry. May be not but that will need to be proven. Innocent until proven guilty.

Yes, *the homeowner* would be innocent until proven guilty.

In the hypothetical situation this discussion is based on the bounty hunters would be on a slab in the morgue, their guilt or innocence would never even be considered by a court.

 

[spat]

I've made a couple two tree of those. If you need any pointers let me know.

ETA: I would get everything you need to make a dry storage tube right now. We don't know where everything is headed so you may not be able to get that stuff in the future. Get all of your dry storage tube stuff now!

Thanks, I will certainly appreciate any advice you can offer.

It will be a while.

We're moving out there next month, and it could be months before I even start that paperwork. I'm going to be busy as hell with the new place I am sure.

I will probably start a thread here if/when I get going.

 

[Saltwater60]

It needs to be reasonable and necessary in the eyes of grand jurists above and beyond being lawful. A jurist is likely to say they are on the side of the men apprehending a fugitive or attempting to do so

You sure about that in this day and age? Also they have no proof what so ever the fugitive was there. They did the samething to this guys moms house and a renting tenant. These BH were clearly loose cannons and out of control. They broke the law and should be jailed.

 

[Saltwater60]

It does if this is really where he lives or made a sworn statement that he does. Guess we would need to see the court paperwork to settle it and that’s not happening so I’m not gonna argue with my fellow 2A brothers about it further.

You seem to forget about the moms house and the tenant.
Also What does it matter if he listed it as the address? Doesn’t mean he went there or the good brother was allowing him to live there. I could put down any address and then bounty hunters can raid the house?

 

[Saltwater60]

Then your take falls apart. They went there because it was lawful. They called pd also because they knew so. Otherwise the opposite must be true. They must have conspired to commit a crime with countless BPD members. They were called and participated. Which version is more reasonable to believe?

Then why did the superior officer come and say the BH were wrong?
again you forget that they can come and check to see if the bail jumper was there. What they can’t do is lie and say they have a warrant and force there way in at gun point. They also had zero and I mean zero authority to enter the tenants property.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Bounty hunters are nothing more than domestic mercenaries. They only get paid if they catch the jumper. Totally motivated by the money. That's where the problem lies. I suspect there would be a lot of times the limit gets pushed and when no one is looking the rules get broken.

If the average homeowner was on their front porch with a rifle defending their property these days against looters and rioters they'd probably be charged with brandishing.

Seems the bounty hunters at the least were brandishing if anything it was assault.

 

[Saltwater60]

Very informative

The powers of bounty hunters are immense. When arresting a skip, bounty hunters need not read them their Miranda rights. They do not need a warrant to search the residence of a skip, even a hotel room. Nor are they required to announce themselves before entering private property, as police officers must. Evidence obtained illegally by bounty hunters can be submitted in court. Like police officers, bounty hunters are authorized to use “all reasonable force” to apprehend skips. This means they can shoot to kill if shot at. Also, they can transport skips across state lines without enduring extradition proceedings. (Bounty hunter cliché: Extradition proceedings take place in the trunk of a car.)

Bounty hunters derive their powers from the 1872 Supreme Court case Taylor vs. Taintor. In the eyes of the law, a defendant voluntarily places himself in the custody of the bail-bondsman and, by extension, the bounty hunter, when he signs the bail contract. The court decided that bondsmen and bounty hunters are proxies for the state, and therefore deserve police powers when taking “custody” of the accused. However, the usual constitutional protections enjoyed by suspects don’t apply to skips pursued by bounty hunters because, the court decided, the bounty hunters work for the bondsmen, not the government.

Bounty hunters’ privileges are a vestige of British common law. Since the Middle Ages, courts have appointed custodians for defendants awaiting trial. Usually, the custodian was the defendant’s friend. In the 13th century, courts commonly required custodians to serve defendants’ punishments in their stead when their wards skipped, even if this meant standing in for a hanging.

Bounty hunters are more efficient at returning criminals than police are. The National Association of Bail Enforcement Agents says that 88 percent of all bail jumpers are returned to authorities by bounty hunters. Law enforcement officers return 10 percent of skips, but catch most of them at routine traffic stops and at border crossings. Only 2 percent of skips remain at large. Criminal justice experts credit bounty hunters’ success rates to two things: They face less red tape than do police and, unlike police, bounty hunters have an economic incentive to get their men.

Last year, U.S. News & World Report proclaimed bounty hunting one of the hottest job tracks in its “Best Jobs for the Future” issue. No persuasive evidence substantiates this claim. According to the NABEA, there are only 200 to 300 full-time bounty hunters in the United States, and they earn an average income of about $36,000. More than 1,700 people bounty hunt part time. Most of them are former or off-duty cops or private investigators.

-slate.com

Wow $36,000. That makes me want to risk my life. Also you said in your article the skips residence. How does this get deemed his residence? For some one to claim my house is their residence they can’t just write it down and make it so. That’s not how legal property ownership or staying at a home works.

 

[Acer-m14]

where did the BH get his license from .. the GOVT .. there are rules ..

like i said back i think on page 1 .. midnight for 5k and 3 misdemeanors .. unreal and had guns pointed at you .. fking unreal

 

[Acer-m14]

For some one to claim my house is their residence

didn't the Blues Brothers use the Yankee Stadium for there addy .. lol ..

 

[spat]

Wow $36,000. That makes me want to risk my life. Also you said in your article the skips residence. How does this get deemed his residence? For some one to claim my house is their residence they can’t just write it down and make it so. That’s not how legal property ownership or staying at a home works.

For the most part people do not choose a career like this because it's good money.

They choose it because it lets them do things that they would normally be arrested for doing.

They really are cut from the same cloth as the people they chase.

 

[repete]

HMR?

No, was't that some other .17 . Can you tell I know nothing about that round Oh yeah , this was in Henrietta

 

[Saltwater60]

For the most part people do not choose a career like this because it's good money.

They choose it because it lets them do things that they would normally be arrested for doing.

They really are cut from the same cloth as the people they chase.

Good point.
I hope they get arrested and it costs them and the bondsman they work for everything they have. I also hope BPD gets sued and I hope one of them entered into that home. I’ve talked with many BPD and NYSP officers lately and they all seem like great guys but this is wrong.
Oh yes I should add the only reason they are alive is of course they are white right?

 

[Robin]

It wasn't too long ago that bounty hunt hunting took on a whole different meaning.

Robin

 

[Tisto]

didn't the Blues Brothers use the Yankee Stadium for there addy .. lol ..

No, they used Wrigley Field, home of the Cubs.

 

[Chevusa]

Wow $36,000. That makes me want to risk my life. Also you said in your article the skips residence. How does this get deemed his residence? For some one to claim my house is their residence they can’t just write it down and make it so. That’s not how legal property ownership or staying at a home works.

It says most people do it part time. 36K is nice part time money I think. And you can have your residence at 123 main st without owning the house. You have kids right? Well their residence is XXX yet they dont own the house. Where you are living is your residence.

 

[spat]

It says most people do it part time. 36K is nice part time money I think. And you can have your residence at 123 main st without owning the house. You have kids right? Well their residence is XXX yet they dont own the house. Where you are living is your residence.

But you actually have to live there.

Proof of residency is generally established by utility bills listing that address and your name and the like.

If you just crash on a couch for a night you are not a resident.

If you last visited your brothers place 6 months ago for dinner, you are not a resident.

 

[Chevusa]

But you actually have to live there.

Proof of residency is generally established by utility bills listing that address and your name and the like.

If you just crash on a couch for a night you are not a resident.

If you last visited your brothers place 6 months ago for dinner, you are not a resident.

Ok, so when, exactly was the last time this criminal was there, and for how long?

Oh, you don't know.

You don't even know the basic facts in this case. It will all play out in due time. Whatever is right will be done. Until then we don't need people convicting them without knowing any facts or the laws related to it other than a quick google search. Heck, before I chimed in here everyone was up in arms about them not having a warrant. It wasn't until I chimed in that people realized they don't need a warrant. Now all of the sudden everyone's a legal expert and knows all of the intricacies of bounty law and SC decisions.

 

[spat]

Ok, so when, exactly was the last time this criminal was there, and for how long?

Oh, you don't know.

You don't even know the basic facts in this case. It will all play out in due time. Whatever is right will be done. Until then we don't need people convicting them without knowing any facts or the laws related to it other than a quick google search. Heck, before I chimed in here everyone was up in arms about them not having a warrant. It wasn't until I chimed in that people realized they don't need a warrant. Now all of the sudden everyone's a legal expert and knows all of the intricacies of bounty law and SC decisions.

There are only 2 people in here who have claimed to know this guys residence. You, and @GOPerfect.

His claim is apparently based on a search of a relevant database, yours is based on "they had badges so they must have been doing things right".

Without solid evidence, you have to go with the most likely scenario. This guy spends all his time in PA, he committed his crime in PA, but you think he lives in Buffalo ?

Second, you have spent this entire thread defending a few likely scumbags (the BHs) from an attack that nobody is even making.

And yes, I called them scumbags. Their behavior in this encounter is sufficient evidence to support that.

 

[Chevusa]

There are only 2 people in here who have claimed to know this guys residence. You, and @GOPerfect.

His claim is apparently based on a search of a relevant database, yours is based on "they had badges so they must have been doing things right".

Without solid evidence, you have to go with the most likely scenario. This guy spends all his time in PA, he committed his crime in PA, but you think he lives in Buffalo ?

Second, you have spent this entire thread defending a few likely scumbags (the BHs) from an attack that nobody is even making.

And yes, I called them scumbags. Their behavior in this encounter is sufficient evidence to support that.

We'll see what happens. All I know is I don't commit crimes or let people that do stay in my house so my front door is nicely in tact. Seems to be working well for me. This is pretty simple stuff.