Ayoob coming to Rochester

[Pale Rider]

Rochester Personal Defense, LLC - Home

Rochester Personal Defense, LLC offers a full complement of firearms, self-defense and pistol permit training classes for private citizens and Law Enforcement.

safeinrochester.com

I took this class when it was held in Seattle. Massad Ayoob is a good instructor, and an excellent resource if you are involved in a self defense shooting.

 

[2WheelGnnr]

Gotta say.....I have never gone but love all the courses RPD offers but gotta admit...this one is a Big Bit PRICEY.....but I know hes a personal defense Rock star and good at what he dones!! If your willing to shell out the frogskins.....

 

[Uzi]

Haha! $565.00 for a lecture with no live firing and absolutely no handling of firearms? All information that is available free of charge on youtube and gun websites. Seems totally worth it!

 

[FS1040]

Take Mas a carton of cigarettes. He smokes them like candy. He’ll love you for it. $565–that’s about what a carton costs in NY, isn’t it?

 

[2WheelGnnr]

oh yeah...the lil extra tax on em thats right... so does that mean NY really wants to quit or not?! I take Nancy Reagans stance....Just say no.........TO NY.

 

[99cummins]

I’d like to see him speak but that’s a little steep for me.

 

[Acer-m14]

would be a one day class held on ave-d and maybe even on Lyell Ave too .. but the hookers are cheaper i heard and like to play with your gun .. lol

 

[Acer-m14]

Gotta say.....I have never gone but love all the courses RPD offers

they have a course on shooting pets .. ??

PS .. does Mas know he is in NY ? lol ..

 

[Saltwater60]

It is a little bit expensive but it’s a 2 day 20 hour course with lunch provided. I probably won’t attend but if you pay by cash your get a discount too.

 

[Airborneguy]

Isn’t he a little outdated? This guy on city-data talks about him all the time and most of what he says is very outdated.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Take Mas a carton of cigarettes. He smokes them like candy. He’ll love you for it. $565–that’s about what a carton costs in NY, isn’t it?

....once they balance the budget.

 

[kev74]

Isn’t he a little outdated? This guy on city-data talks about him all the time and most of what he says is very outdated.

Not outdated at all.

Ayoob's primary focus is addressing liability concerns both before and after a shooting.

Check out some of the videos on YouTube, and articles in American Handgunner (I think). His book In The Gravest Extreme is probably over 30 years old and is still relevant. Lots of good info.

If this was local to me, I'd be there.

 

[Podmonkey]

Massad Ayoob is certainly one of the foremost authorites in tge gun world, particularly in the legal aspects of self defense and I too would be very keen to attend one of his lectures, however I don't think I would pay that much to see Jesus Christ turn an Oreo into a buffet.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Anyone who advocates using this grip is outdated.

The Crush Grip - AllOutdoor.com

“There are many theories on how hard to grasp your handgun. I’ve heard, ‘Hold the pistol as you would a quail; firmly enough it won’t fly away, but not hard enough to crush its tiny bones.’ I’ve often heard, ‘Grasp with 40 percent strength with your firing hand and 60 percent with your support...

www.alloutdoor.com

 

[kev74]

Anyone who advocates using this grip is outdated.

The Crush Grip - AllOutdoor.com

“There are many theories on how hard to grasp your handgun. I’ve heard, ‘Hold the pistol as you would a quail; firmly enough it won’t fly away, but not hard enough to crush its tiny bones.’ I’ve often heard, ‘Grasp with 40 percent strength with your firing hand and 60 percent with your support...

www.alloutdoor.com

View attachment 61126

Are you judging by the picture in the poorly written article, or by what Ayoob teaches?

I don't see anything wrong with this grip.

 

[fresch]

Use the gripe that keeps you on target, then practice.
Tea cup, push/pull, overlap,...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Are you judging by the picture in the poorly written article, or by what Ayoob teaches?

I don't see anything wrong with this grip.

By what he teaches.

How to shoot a handgun accurately - Backwoods Home Magazine

By Massad Ayoob Issue #85 • January/February, 2004 “I want you to do an article on how to shoot a handgun accurately,” Dave Duffy told me. “Make it 2,500 or 3,000 words.” Long ago, I would have answered, “Sure, and while I’m at it, how about a history of the world in, oh, 10,000 words […]

www.backwoodshome.com

He also says that you shouldn’t modify a gun with afterwards triggers, sights, ect. He also says not to use exotic ammo.

Facts About "Light Trigger Pull Liability"

EXCLUSIVE FOR LEE JARRETT, SMITH & WESSON FORUM THE LIGHT TRIGGER PULL ISSUE By Massad Ayoob A common thread topic on shooting forums is whether a defensive handgun with a lighter-than-factory-spec trigger pull can cause problems in court. Because this is something that most people don’t...

smith-wessonforum.com

I’ll pass on using him as a relevant figure today.

 

[kev74]

By what he teaches.

How to shoot a handgun accurately - Backwoods Home Magazine

By Massad Ayoob Issue #85 • January/February, 2004 “I want you to do an article on how to shoot a handgun accurately,” Dave Duffy told me. “Make it 2,500 or 3,000 words.” Long ago, I would have answered, “Sure, and while I’m at it, how about a history of the world in, oh, 10,000 words […]

www.backwoodshome.com

He also says that you shouldn’t modify a gun with afterwards triggers, sights, ect. He also says not to use exotic ammo.

Facts About "Light Trigger Pull Liability"

EXCLUSIVE FOR LEE JARRETT, SMITH & WESSON FORUM THE LIGHT TRIGGER PULL ISSUE By Massad Ayoob A common thread topic on shooting forums is whether a defensive handgun with a lighter-than-factory-spec trigger pull can cause problems in court. Because this is something that most people don’t...

smith-wessonforum.com

I’ll pass on using him as a relevant figure today.

What part of a firm, high grip on the gun do you take issue with?

 

[Robin]

No amount of griping can keep me on target.
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

What part of a firm, high grip on the gun do you take issue with?

I’m gathering that you do not know what a crush grip is which is what he recommends since you keep asking questions about the grip he teaches. Google it. “Crush Grip Handgun”

You’ll see how outdated it is. It’s a grip from the revolver days.

 

[Airborneguy]

Like I said earlier, a poster on my city data forum is a huge proponent of his and fairly detailed in explaining much of his teaching. It’s definitely outdated and cautious to the point of putting his students at a disadvantage. Just my opinion.

 

[kev74]

I’m gathering that you do not know what a crush grip is which is what he recommends since you keep asking questions about the grip he teaches. Google it. “Crush Grip Handgun”

You’ll see how outdated it is. It’s a grip from the revolver days.

I know what the grip is. I'm curious why you think its outdated.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I know what the grip is. I'm curious why you think its outdated.

You really don’t know why? Look at the thumbs. What are those thumbs preventing?

 

[kev74]

You really don’t know why? Look at the thumbs. What are those thumbs preventing?

Again, are you talking about the picture in the AllOutdoor article (which is more Charlies Angles) or what Ayoob teaches?

Thumbs forward and overlapping. I don't see a problem.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You don’t see a problem with this?

Or this?

 

[kev74]

You don’t see a problem with this?

Or this?

The first one looks ok. The second one is a ridiculous file photo from the poorly written article you posted above. It has no bearing to the grip in question.

So curling the tip of the thumb makes the grip outdated? That's an interesting opinion.

The reasoning for extending the thumb on the strong hand forward was to aid in quickly orienting the hand toward the target. That's what the US military taught in the 40's and 50's when they were still shooting their Colt 45's one handed, and sights were an afterthought. For those who practice regularly enough and are able to instinctively point a handgun, trading a straight thumb for a stronger grip is a reasonable compromise. I don't think that makes the grip outdated.

For what its worth, extending thumbs forward doesn't work great with revolvers.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The first one looks ok. The second one is a ridiculous file photo from the poorly written article you posted above. It has no bearing to the grip in question.

So curling the tip of the thumb makes the grip outdated? That's an interesting opinion.

The reasoning for extending the thumb on the strong hand forward was to aid in quickly orienting the hand toward the target. That's what the US military taught in the 40's and 50's when they were still shooting their Colt 45's one handed, and sights were an afterthought. For those who practice regularly enough and are able to instinctively point a handgun, trading a straight thumb for a stronger grip is a reasonable compromise. I don't think that makes the grip outdated.

For what its worth, extending thumbs forward doesn't work great with revolvers.

Curling the shooting hand’s thumb down and putting the opposing palm over it reduces contact on the gun from the opposing hand.

Nobody teaches that anymore hence why it is outdated.

 

[kev74]

Curling the shooting hand’s thumb down and putting the opposing palm over it reduces contact on the gun from the opposing hand.

Nobody teaches that anymore hence why it is outdated.

Thats not what's happening. The weak hand palm isn't over the strong hand thumb. The thumbs are overlapping.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thats not what's happening. The weak hand palm isn't over the strong hand thumb. The thumbs are overlapping.

The weak hand palm isn’t making full contact with the grip. The thumb is preventing that. I cannot believe you are arguing this. It’s an outdated way of holding a pistol.

 

[kev74]

The weak hand palm isn’t making full contact with the grip. The thumb is preventing that. I cannot believe you are arguing this. It’s an outdated way of holding a pistol.

The weak hand palm is free to contact the grip. Thumbs aren't that big, and hands are free to conform and flex.

You say this thumb position makes the grip outdated. Most competitive shooters gloss over thumb position in their instruction. Some advocate thumbs forward to assist in pointing the gun. Nobody says thumbs forward aids in grip or recoil management. All advocate a high grip, maximizing the amount of skin on the grip. Thumbs position is of minimal, if any, consequence. Almost everybody relevant today is teaching essentially the same grip, with the biggest difference being the amount of "squeeze" applied - and that's all over the place from firm to tight.